What's the over and under pilots can focus on contract negotiations

[BigGreen]

Sad

[Dry Guy]

Maybe making a joke about something that just happened isn't the best thing....

But yes, let's stand firm and bring this industry up to the level that we all deserve.

And here we go.

[Torontomaplelaughs]

5 pages triggered by one pilot's view of the middle east

Not a single post on the largest pilot picket in Canadian history on September 29th in Toronto

[flying4dollars]

5 pages triggered by one pilot's view of the middle east

Not a single post on the largest pilot picket in Canadian history on September 29th in Toronto

Seriously guys, just because it isn't talked about on Avcanada, doesn't mean nothing is happening behind the scenes. Trust me on that. This website is not the mecca of the Air Canada pilot's contract discussions. It's just a water cooler for everyone to spread rumors, insult each other constantly behind a keyboard and troll.

[aeronauticaldisaster]

5 pages triggered by one pilot's view of the middle east

Not a single post on the largest pilot picket in Canadian history on September 29th in Toronto

Seriously guys, just because it isn't talked about on Avcanada, doesn't mean nothing is happening behind the scenes. Trust me on that. This website is not the mecca of the Air Canada pilot's contract discussions. It's just a water cooler for everyone to spread rumors, insult each other constantly behind a keyboard and troll.

Probably should change your name to "flying4peanuts"

[N181CS]

Everyone on property at AC has absolutely 0 right to complain about the low wages. The wages have been low for a very long time especially for the flag carrier. People keep lining up for that job. Some even leave $200,000 a year jobs to work for that wage. You went there knowing it was shit yet you sold out your pilot brothers for a flag on a tail….

[thepoops]

Everyone on property at AC has absolutely 0 right to complain about the low wages. The wages have been low for a very long time especially for the flag carrier. People keep lining up for that job. Some even leave $200,000 a year jobs to work for that wage. You went there knowing it was shit yet you sold out your pilot brothers for a flag on a tail….

I guess no one has the right to complain about the middle east because conflict there has been ongoing for a very long time since christ was a cowboy. But people keeping going there, and sometimes leave safe countries to go there. They went there knowing it was shit, yet all everyone does is complain about it online

[JHR]

Everyone on property at AC has absolutely 0 right to complain about the low wages. The wages have been low for a very long time especially for the flag carrier. People keep lining up for that job. Some even leave $200,000 a year jobs to work for that wage. You went there knowing it was shit yet you sold out your pilot brothers for a flag on a tail….

I guess no one has the right to complain about the middle east because conflict there has been ongoing for a very long time since christ was a cowboy. But people keeping going there, and sometimes leave safe countries to go there. They went there knowing it was shit, yet all everyone does is complain about it online

Hahahaha wow that is a stretch of logic

[bob99]

One pilot is garnering more attention than the fact we have 5,000 of the lowest paid global airline pilots in the world in this country

Why do pilots spend so much time on something they have no control over like wars in the middle east?

Maybe get off avcanada for a bit? There’s been zero talk about said pilot on the forums that our pilots actually use.

[unionism101]

One pilot is garnering more attention than the fact we have 5,000 of the lowest paid global airline pilots in the world in this country

Why do pilots spend so much time on something they have no control over like wars in the middle east?

Maybe get off avcanada for a bit? There’s been zero talk about said pilot on the forums that our pilots actually use.

How many posts about the pickets in yyc on the 28th & yul on the 30th?

[MontrealCanucks]

One pilot is garnering more attention than the fact we have 5,000 of the lowest paid global airline pilots in the world in this country

Why do pilots spend so much time on something they have no control over like wars in the middle east?

Maybe get off avcanada for a bit? There’s been zero talk about said pilot on the forums that our pilots actually use.

How many posts about the pickets in yyc on the 28th & yul on the 30th?

Zero

[stall]

Air Canada pilots looking good:


https://youtu.be/dTrgjTwk-qc?si=x86ZOrSC9Fo-skPK

[dontcallmeshirley]

Air Canada pilots looking good:


https://youtu.be/dTrgjTwk-qc?si=x86ZOrSC9Fo-skPK

They'll look better with US comparable wages.

[Sulako]

I did some post pruning to keep things remotely civil. //Mod hat.

[flying4dollars]

5 pages triggered by one pilot's view of the middle east

Not a single post on the largest pilot picket in Canadian history on September 29th in Toronto

Seriously guys, just because it isn't talked about on Avcanada, doesn't mean nothing is happening behind the scenes. Trust me on that. This website is not the mecca of the Air Canada pilot's contract discussions. It's just a water cooler for everyone to spread rumors, insult each other constantly behind a keyboard and troll.

Probably should change your name to "flying4peanuts"

I'm sure you know what flat pay is all about. You wouldn't be wrong.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Have we filed for conciliation yet? The sooner we can get a strong strike mandate the sooner the real negotiations will begin. No company is going to give anything, even if it's zero cost to them, so let's just get this dog and pony part over with.

[rudder]

Have we filed for conciliation yet? The sooner we can get a strong strike mandate the sooner the real negotiations will begin. No company is going to give anything, even if it's zero cost to them, so let's just get this dog and pony part over with.

The start of the conciliation phase of negotiations starts a clock. Both parties will have interests in timing.

Further, the request for conciliation to the Minister (via the FMCS) must be to ask for assistance to remedy an impasse in bargaining.

After 10 years of mostly one-sided bargaining, the AC pilot negotiators would be well served to use the bargaining phase to demonstrate to the employer the the extent of change that will be required to achieve pilot employee acquiescence.

Negotiations are a process. Every step has value, particularly in the mostly dysfunctional bargaining environment that has plagued the AC pilots since CCAA in 2003.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I believe the company has interests in dragging out the negotiations phase as long as possible and we have interests in ending it sooner than later. What do you guys think?

[cdnavater]

I believe the company has interests in dragging out the negotiations phase as long as possible and we have interests in ending it sooner than later. What do you guys think?

Yes, sooner would be better but the company is kind of in control of the timeline. As long as you are making progress you are not really at an impasse, so if the company is giving a little here and there, no impasse. I also doubt your negotiating is that deep in yet, the company already knows you want big raises, it’s likely they are still working on QOL items before moving on the the big ticket stuff.
Disclaimer, I have not been at any negotiating table, so my understanding of the process is based on my perception of past negotiations. Rudder? I know you know, care to correct me or elaborate?

[rudder]

I believe the company has interests in dragging out the negotiations phase as long as possible and we have interests in ending it sooner than later. What do you guys think?

Yes, sooner would be better but the company is kind of in control of the timeline. As long as you are making progress you are not really at an impasse, so if the company is giving a little here and there, no impasse. I also doubt your negotiating is that deep in yet, the company already knows you want big raises, it’s likely they are still working on QOL items before moving on the the big ticket stuff.
Disclaimer, I have not been at any negotiating table, so my understanding of the process is based on my perception of past negotiations. Rudder? I know you know, care to correct me or elaborate?

Yup. Start small. Work your way up to big. Pay rates will be last.

There is so much that is deficient in the AC Pilot CBA, where to start?

[Inverted2]

I believe the company has interests in dragging out the negotiations phase as long as possible and we have interests in ending it sooner than later. What do you guys think?

Of course. If the economy implodes in 2024 and/or the fighting in the sandbox expands that could affect travel demand and the company’s bottom line. They’ll drag it out for sure.

[hithere]

So, would anyone care to postulate, is scope on the table at all in the current talks? obviously North American scope clauses currently prohibit small jets greater than 76 seats, but according to bargaining 101: shoot for the moon and settle somewhere in between, would this not be a good angle for AC management? Even if management didn’t think they’d win the scope battle in front of an arbitrator , isn’t that a good business negots to appear to “settle” for scope status quo in exchange for lower raises(or whatever else)?

[Dash.Trash]

So, would anyone care to postulate, is scope on the table at all in the current talks? obviously North American scope clauses currently prohibit small jets greater than 76 seats, but according to bargaining 101: shoot for the moon and settle somewhere in between, would this not be a good angle for AC management? Even if management didn’t think they’d win the scope battle in front of an arbitrator , isn’t that a good business negots to appear to “settle” for scope status quo in exchange for lower raises(or whatever else)?

LOL.

The failed MOA from last year had scope lets contained in it.

It was rejected by 80%.

Any TA with loosening of scope would not pass ratification. The MEC is acutely aware of this.

[hithere]

I not asking what the MEC’s (or the pilot group’s) stance on it is. I’m wondering if the company has tabled anything regarding scope.
By the way, the scope let in the failed MOA was not the reason it failed. All it was for were some 50 seat RJs, operated by a non-Jazz carrier to provide some transborder lift. That was not the dealbreaker for the membership at the time, I bet they hardly cared about that. 50 -76 seat aircraft are already allowed in the ACA scope clause and AC management already did a workaround on the exclusivity clause anyway with the PAL deal.
I guess what Im curious about(and it’s probably all covered by NDAs anyway) is if management is trying to increase the size of aircraft in these negotiations, now that the entire CBA(including scope) is in open bargaining

[PositiveRate27]

I not asking what the MEC’s (or the pilot group’s) stance on it is. I’m wondering if the company has tabled anything regarding scope.
By the way, the scope let in the failed MOA was not the reason it failed. All it was for were some 50 seat RJs, operated by a non-Jazz carrier to provide some transborder lift. That was not the dealbreaker for the membership at the time, I bet they hardly cared about that. 50 -76 seat aircraft are already allowed in the ACA scope clause and AC management already did a workaround on the exclusivity clause anyway with the PAL deal.
I guess what Im curious about(and it’s probably all covered by NDAs anyway) is if management is trying to increase the size of aircraft in these negotiations, now that the entire CBA(including scope) is in open bargaining

I can assure you it was a massive deal. Membership across all seniority levels could see the writing on the wall. While our ACPA reps kept telling us “what’s the big deal, 50-76 seat aircraft are already allowed already” the membership asked themselves “why would AC pay us for something they don’t need?” Because AC had a huge staffing issue at our regional and they didn’t want to solve that problem by spending money on regional pilots. A rising tide floats all boats, and our membership refused to be complicit in continuing to sell out our industry brethren any longer. That attempted scope let was actually the real catalyst for us sh!t-canning ACPA into the dust bin of history.

ACPAs arrogance and hubris on that subject sealed their fate.

Good riddance.