That was a close one...
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- rookiepilot
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Re: That was a close one...
Man, landing 23 at 310 10g20 doesn't sound like that much of a handful for a 777, but I wasn’t there. If this is real, it really got away from them. Lucky.
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Re: That was a close one...
Friend told me x-wind limit for 777 is 38 knots.
NAP
Re: That was a close one...
If only they had an into-wind runway to land on…
Re: That was a close one...
That was landing on runway 24L. The terminals always seem to kick up some good turbulence when the wind is out of the north-west like that.
Have Pratts - Will Travel
Re: That was a close one...
I am wondering if the camera angle might have dramatized things a bit.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: That was a close one...
Problem is the training for controllers to work the 33s is very specialized....
"Cleared to descend fl180, maintain max forward speed"
"Reduce to 120kt"
"Turn right 20 degrees"
"Turn left 30 degrees"
"Increase to 180 knots "
"Cleared to 12000"
"For spacing turn right 60 degrees (garbled) speed"
"Recleared 14000, why are you doing 180 I said minimum speed"
"Increase to max forward speed"
"Intercept the localizer 23"
"Yes that's correct change of runway, Cleared ils 23"
"BTW.......
...
..
120 to omtok" <click>
Re: That was a close one...
This sounds like a normal day going in to YULDanWEC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:16 pmProblem is the training for controllers to work the 33s is very specialized....
"Cleared to descend fl180, maintain max forward speed"
"Reduce to 120kt"
"Turn right 20 degrees"
"Turn left 30 degrees"
"Increase to 180 knots "
"Cleared to 12000"
"For spacing turn right 60 degrees (garbled) speed"
"Recleared 14000, why are you doing 180 I said minimum speed"
"Increase to max forward speed"
"Intercept the localizer 23"
"Yes that's correct change of runway, Cleared ils 23"
"BTW.......
...
..
120 to omtok" <click>

Re: That was a close one...
It’s not like they maximize the RWY usage anymore anyways. Before covid they would depart 24R, land 24L and use 23 for landing and departures. Now they really only have 1 departure RWY and 1 arrival RWY with the occasional arrival on the departure RWY.lowoleo22 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:12 amThis sounds like a normal day going in to YULDanWEC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:16 pmProblem is the training for controllers to work the 33s is very specialized....
"Cleared to descend fl180, maintain max forward speed"
"Reduce to 120kt"
"Turn right 20 degrees"
"Turn left 30 degrees"
"Increase to 180 knots "
"Cleared to 12000"
"For spacing turn right 60 degrees (garbled) speed"
"Recleared 14000, why are you doing 180 I said minimum speed"
"Increase to max forward speed"
"Intercept the localizer 23"
"Yes that's correct change of runway, Cleared ils 23"
"BTW.......
...
..
120 to omtok" <click>. My understanding is they don't like to use the 33's because it cuts the arrival rate nearly in half. Can't do simultaneous parallel approaches because the rwys are too close together. Have to stagger them. Although if SFO can do it...
Re: That was a close one...
Terminal Control in Canada has always been too "conservative" compared to the U S, (PHX, SFO, LAX..etc) And now, with the inexperienced in the cockpit, it's getting worse! It's bullshit to be "slowing down" below 200kts until 10 final! #KeepTheSpeed-Up!
Keep the dirty side down.
Re: That was a close one...
Conservative or just uncoordinated? Fly into LAX and your arrival is so well coordinated between controllers that it feels like you’re the only one on frequency. Fly to YVR and I’m not sure terminal even tells the neighbouring sectors what runway is active.
- Chaxterium
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Re: That was a close one...
Ha! A few months back I was going into YVR.
I was switched to approach about 20 miles out.
"MAL7079 turn left 200 expect ILS26R".
"Left 200. Expect 26R. We were told to expect 26L and we're a little tight to switch runways now".
"Who told you to expect 26L"
"Uhh......the previous controller.....who else?"
Re: That was a close one...
Something like 90% of the complaints in yyz are from 6 phone #s......most are on the approach for 15/33. If the airport authorities were smart they would track them down get a real estate professional to offer them 10% over appraisal, but then put a restrictive covenant preventing complaints as they were advised they were on an approach to Canada's busiest airport.
Re: That was a close one...
Once people would find out about that, I have a feeling all of Toronto would suddenly start complaining about aircraft noiserigpiggy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:58 am Something like 90% of the complaints in yyz are from 6 phone #s......most are on the approach for 15/33. If the airport authorities were smart they would track them down get a real estate professional to offer them 10% over appraisal, but then put a restrictive covenant preventing complaints as they were advised they were on an approach to Canada's busiest airport.

Even people in Vancouver would start complaining about Toronto aircraft noise!
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: That was a close one...
I’ve had some pretty wild approaches on the 24s in YYZ but wow that thing was rocking. Never seen a wide body rock and roll like that.
DEI = Didn’t Earn It
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Re: That was a close one...
That crosswind is getting to be a bit high for the side slip method they seem to have attempted. To me that's asking for problems, a decrab on landing or land crabbed would be far far safer. I'm sure a valuable lesson was learned.
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Re: That was a close one...
In fairness to you, maybe I missed something? Care to elaborate?
What does your post even mean?
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Re: That was a close one...
I have nearly 2000 hours on 777 alone, most in the left seat.
Looked to me as though they flew textbook for the reported wind. The approach was smooth and stable right up and into the very latter stages of the flare. (its impossible to know from the video if they were aligned with centreline, but I'll assume they were).
Ive landed on that runway many times, in those conditions. They are hazardous. The video appears to confirm something happened very late in that flare.
I wasn't there. Other than the above, I have no real comment except to say whatever happened, happened very very quickly. Kudos to the crew for a safe, albeit exciting landing.
Re: That was a close one...
Textbook ladies and gentlemen. Textbook.
Complex systems won’t survive the competence crisis