Ex Military AVN to AME-M

[anticlimactic1]

Hello all,

I'd like to start off by introducing myself and giving you all some background before asking some questions.

I started my career in aviation with the Canadian Armed Forces as an AVN Technician about 10 years ago. I voluntarily left, and transitioned into a great job as an Unlicensed AME-M. I still work on military aircraft with all of my experience carrying over to my current job, which allows me to be an ACA for 2 civilian AMOs. My goal is to attain my AME-M2 license.

Some info for comrades googling how to do this and landing here on this post... If you're here then it's time. You know.

1. Keep all your course records, 3s/4s/5s. If you're lucky enough to land a TC recognized type course the TC number will be on your grad cert.
2. Buy a civilian AME logbook, find an AME to shadow and get them to sign it if your organization has civilian maintenance embedded.
3. Have your Level A. This is ACA civilian-side.
4. Prepare to study. A lot. ICS Canada has a course called Aircraft Mechanics, enroll and complete. This is your civilian Basic Training which is enough to start a civilian apprenticeship. I did my course in 6 months while working full-time as an M. No kids.
5. Apply for your AME license, this gets the ball rolling.
6. Meet your TC inspector. Organize your experience (logbook, closed 349s as Level A, POM...) This counts towards your 48-month civilian apprenticeship. Expect a 6-month sentence to bridge yourself from DND to TC/P-Series to CARs.
7. Prepare for your 3x Transport Canada technical exams (Standard Practices, Airframe, Power Plant). Currently where I am at and the reason I am here.

My questions for the forum.

1. How many questions are on the TC tech exams? Is each test different? I have been told its 50 multiple guess, and also told is over 100 multiple guess...

2. Are they computerized exams or are they fill-in-the-dot with a pencil?

3. Results are instant after submitting the exam?

4. Not a real question... But why are M2 tests covering reciprocating (Power Plant specifically) when it is the M2 license that is req'd to ACA turbine/turboprop engines? Seems unnecessary in my opinion. If no one wants to get their M1 shouldn't we let reciprocating die? People will transfer over when the demand and money go back there, and learn reciprocating information at that time? My 2 cents.

Thanks all.

[2old2sugarcoat]

I hope you are aware that Transport Canada airworthiness inspectors have maintenance policy letters and staff instructions to access your Canadian military training and experience and skill in assessing against the civilian standard.

[rwm1273]

As you posted, you must have Transport Canada Approved basic training. The ICS Canada Aircraft Mechanic course meets this requirement. Your Military time can be credited towards your license, and if you still work with anyone who supervised your work, you can get them to sign your logbook. You will also need to get 6 months on a civilian registered aircraft in your logbook, and your logbook must meet 80% of the tasks before a TC inspector approves you to write the exams. According to Transport Canada, technical exams are 90 questions, and the regulatory exam is 50 questions. It appears that there are 4 exams. Airframe, Power plant, Standard practices, Cars. (When I wrote my exams there were about 10 exams in the 1990s) I too came from the military, and I took the ICS course, and since then, I have helped several others get their licenses using this course.

The difference between M1 and M2 is aircraft weight and then turbine power. So most aircraft under 12,500lbs would be in the M1 category including some small turboprop aircraft such as the DHC6 and MU2. Also piston helicopters are in the M1, and light turbine helicopters are M1 but can also be M2. Anything that is not in the M1 category is in the M2. So anything over 12,500lbs, all jets, and helicopters over 7000lbs or 8 seats. However, the helicopters can also be categorized by category type. Normal category helicopters are M1, and transport category helicopters are M2. I also know of some people who have had B1900 approval with only an M1 license, but usually, it is an M2 aircraft.

[nine sixteenths]

Resource for you, a link to the mentioned staff instruction can be found here as well.

https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/licens ... nformation

[anticlimactic1]

I hope you are aware that Transport Canada airworthiness inspectors have maintenance policy letters and staff instructions to access your Canadian military training and experience and skill in assessing against the civilian standard.

Not sure what that has to do with the questions I asked, but yes. Also having worked on both sides now I can say the military actually has a higher standard in many aspects from what I have seen this far in my journey. Since the military's training and AMO for simpler terms are classified, TC cannot properly assess the transfer requirements from military to civilian. If they use phone-a-friend to collect data on applicants then the transfer system would be broken and could create bias as this allows pecking order between both people on the phone. Military type courses stretch out to or +/- 3 months while many civilian type courses are only 7 days? Structurally speaking to type courses, the apples to oranges comparison to be made is depth and amount of paperwork required military side vs civilian, military tool control (civilian side does not have much), and military culture ie parades. The military type courses too only grant you POM upon successful examination, whereas civilian side you're granted ACA by your AMO. Allowing more hands-on time with both wrenching and documentation experience to build before accepting big boy responsibilities. An argument could be made to TC requirements when transferring from the military that we are more thoroughly trained per type, and carry out maintenance not to a higher standard but I would say equal standard. Work to be done is apples to apples again slightly leaning on the military side because our unserviceability limits and margin calls compared to some of the civilian stuff flying around. If a TC inspector has no military background it would be hard for them to do a proper assessment, and as the TC standard goes, there is a 6 month bridge apprenticeship required.

I was not quite sure how to respond to your comment as it is not really relevant to my post. Hopefully this sheds some light on whatever is going on.

The difference between M1 and M2 is aircraft weight and then turbine power. So most aircraft under 12,500lbs would be in the M1 category including some small turboprop aircraft such as the DHC6 and MU2. Also piston helicopters are in the M1, and light turbine helicopters are M1 but can also be M2. Anything that is not in the M1 category is in the M2. So anything over 12,500lbs, all jets, and helicopters over 7000lbs or 8 seats. However, the helicopters can also be categorized by category type. Normal category helicopters are M1, and transport category helicopters are M2. I also know of some people who have had B1900 approval with only an M1 license, but usually, it is an M2 aircraft.

To simplify the M1 and M2 licensing, I believe these licenses should be divided on the line of power plant. M1 should be reciprocating and M2 should be turbine. It is good to know both, sure. Maybe I am missing the other side of the argument as to why the M1/M2 are currently set up the way they are and you could drop that below.

From a military transfer aspect, all of my experience is turbine aircraft. I am being told I have to learn reciprocating from a book just to pass an exam. Afterwards never voluntarily accepting work on anything reciprocating. Similar case can be made for college students who have to learn this, useful stuff for WestJetters and AC. Seems to be dinosaur policy, though I have not actually dug into why the M licenses are wired the way they are. Other than take-off weight. Would it not be possible to divide M2 into power plant categories? Any ideas?

[-42]

That guy you quoted was actually in a way trying to get you to do the leg work without coming on a forum trying to get someone do it for you is all. If a individual cannot click a mouse these days and figure things out I suppose the next step is to get someone to do it for you. I can appreciate and tolerate the laziness. Google.

[anticlimactic1]

That guy you quoted was actually in a way trying to get you to do the leg work without coming on a forum trying to get someone do it for you is all. If a individual cannot click a mouse these days and figure things out I suppose the next step is to get someone to do it for you. I can appreciate and tolerate the laziness. Google.

Do you sound like the salty old guy who eats lunch alone and went bald at age 25 in all of your posts? If I could find the 2 answers I was looking for on google, I wouldn't have made an account here specifically to ask.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Hello all,

I'd like to start off by introducing myself and giving you all some background before asking some questions.

I started my career in aviation with the Canadian Armed Forces as an AVN Technician about 10 years ago. I voluntarily left, and transitioned into a great job as an Unlicensed AME-M. I still work on military aircraft with all of my experience carrying over to my current job, which allows me to be an ACA for 2 civilian AMOs. My goal is to attain my AME-M2 license.

Some info for comrades googling how to do this and landing here on this post... If you're here then it's time. You know.

1. Keep all your course records, 3s/4s/5s. If you're lucky enough to land a TC recognized type course the TC number will be on your grad cert.
2. Buy a civilian AME logbook, find an AME to shadow and get them to sign it if your organization has civilian maintenance embedded.
3. Have your Level A. This is ACA civilian-side.
4. Prepare to study. A lot. ICS Canada has a course called Aircraft Mechanics, enroll and complete. This is your civilian Basic Training which is enough to start a civilian apprenticeship. I did my course in 6 months while working full-time as an M. No kids.
5. Apply for your AME license, this gets the ball rolling.
6. Meet your TC inspector. Organize your experience (logbook, closed 349s as Level A, POM...) This counts towards your 48-month civilian apprenticeship. Expect a 6-month sentence to bridge yourself from DND to TC/P-Series to CARs.
7. Prepare for your 3x Transport Canada technical exams (Standard Practices, Airframe, Power Plant). Currently where I am at and the reason I am here.

My questions for the forum.

1. How many questions are on the TC tech exams? Is each test different? I have been told its 50 multiple guess, and also told is over 100 multiple guess...

2. Are they computerized exams or are they fill-in-the-dot with a pencil?

3. Results are instant after submitting the exam?

4. Not a real question... But why are M2 tests covering reciprocating (Power Plant specifically) when it is the M2 license that is req'd to ACA turbine/turboprop engines? Seems unnecessary in my opinion. If no one wants to get their M1 shouldn't we let reciprocating die? People will transfer over when the demand and money go back there, and learn reciprocating information at that time? My 2 cents.

Thanks all.

You won’t have Aca it will be RCA if you’re unlicensed. I think you should spend time in the cars as everything you’ve asked is there (not very complicated). M1 and M2 category aircraft both have piston and turbine power plants, I don’t understand why you’re fixating on that. As far as 566 is concerned without consulting it, I thought military experience regardless of time only counts a maximum of 6 months towards an M license. What does TC say you need for time with your experience and as for your logbook how much do you need filled to apply for your license?

[anticlimactic1]

[/quote]

You won’t have Aca it will be RCA if you’re unlicensed. I think you should spend time in the cars as everything you’ve asked is there (not very complicated). M1 and M2 category aircraft both have piston and turbine power plants, I don’t understand why you’re fixating on that. As far as 566 is concerned without consulting it, I thought military experience regardless of time only counts a maximum of 6 months towards an M license. What does TC say you need for time with your experience and as for your logbook how much do you need filled to apply for your license?
[/quote]

Everything I asked was a total of two questions.

1. Number of questions on exams.
2. Are answers given immediately.

Since creating this post (4 months ago) I have challenged exams and no longer need answers from here. Or want any in future. Thanks all, helpful bunch here.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

You won’t have Aca it will be RCA if you’re unlicensed. I think you should spend time in the cars as everything you’ve asked is there (not very complicated). M1 and M2 category aircraft both have piston and turbine power plants, I don’t understand why you’re fixating on that. As far as 566 is concerned without consulting it, I thought military experience regardless of time only counts a maximum of 6 months towards an M license. What does TC say you need for time with your experience and as for your logbook how much do you need filled to apply for your license?
[/quote]

Everything I asked was a total of two questions.

1. Number of questions on exams.
2. Are answers given immediately.

Since creating this post (4 months ago) I have challenged exams and no longer need answers from here. Or want any in future. Thanks all, helpful bunch here.
[/quote]

What did TC give you for time towards your M license with your military experience?

[rwm1273]

I hope you are aware that Transport Canada airworthiness inspectors have maintenance policy letters and staff instructions to access your Canadian military training and experience and skill in assessing against the civilian standard.

Not sure what that has to do with the questions I asked, but yes. Also having worked on both sides now I can say the military actually has a higher standard in many aspects from what I have seen this far in my journey. Since the military's training and AMO for simpler terms are classified, TC cannot properly assess the transfer requirements from military to civilian. If they use phone-a-friend to collect data on applicants then the transfer system would be broken and could create bias as this allows pecking order between both people on the phone. Military type courses stretch out to or +/- 3 months while many civilian type courses are only 7 days? Structurally speaking to type courses, the apples to oranges comparison to be made is depth and amount of paperwork required military side vs civilian, military tool control (civilian side does not have much), and military culture ie parades. The military type courses too only grant you POM upon successful examination, whereas civilian side you're granted ACA by your AMO. Allowing more hands-on time with both wrenching and documentation experience to build before accepting big boy responsibilities. An argument could be made to TC requirements when transferring from the military that we are more thoroughly trained per type, and carry out maintenance not to a higher standard but I would say equal standard. Work to be done is apples to apples again slightly leaning on the military side because our unserviceability limits and margin calls compared to some of the civilian stuff flying around. If a TC inspector has no military background it would be hard for them to do a proper assessment, and as the TC standard goes, there is a 6 month bridge apprenticeship required.

I was not quite sure how to respond to your comment as it is not really relevant to my post. Hopefully this sheds some light on whatever is going on.

The difference between M1 and M2 is aircraft weight and then turbine power. So most aircraft under 12,500lbs would be in the M1 category including some small turboprop aircraft such as the DHC6 and MU2. Also piston helicopters are in the M1, and light turbine helicopters are M1 but can also be M2. Anything that is not in the M1 category is in the M2. So anything over 12,500lbs, all jets, and helicopters over 7000lbs or 8 seats. However, the helicopters can also be categorized by category type. Normal category helicopters are M1, and transport category helicopters are M2. I also know of some people who have had B1900 approval with only an M1 license, but usually, it is an M2 aircraft.

To simplify the M1 and M2 licensing, I believe these licenses should be divided on the line of power plant. M1 should be reciprocating and M2 should be turbine. It is good to know both, sure. Maybe I am missing the other side of the argument as to why the M1/M2 are currently set up the way they are and you could drop that below.

From a military transfer aspect, all of my experience is turbine aircraft. I am being told I have to learn reciprocating from a book just to pass an exam. Afterwards never voluntarily accepting work on anything reciprocating. Similar case can be made for college students who have to learn this, useful stuff for WestJetters and AC. Seems to be dinosaur policy, though I have not actually dug into why the M licenses are wired the way they are. Other than take-off weight. Would it not be possible to divide M2 into power plant categories? Any ideas?