Image. It’s in the attachments just in case you thought it was an advertisement.

Ha! I saw that and took the same picture for the same purpose. This is supposed to be enticing?? FO pay isn't bad, but what's the point of sticking around for the capt pay? It's laughable.

I assume this is quarterly

Which outfits are paying more than $135k to start as a Kingair Captain?

Citation aren’t real jets

NovaBoy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:20 am Citation aren’t real jets

True, but you can always apply for direct entry on the Embraer if you have enough relative experience. Starts at $145k.

If 80 for an FO isn't to your liking, you can always go to Air Canada for around half that.

They also have a 25 year payscale, increasing less than 1-2% per year. But people still apply, cause realistically it's marginally better than the regionals.

DanWEC wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:57 pm Ha! I saw that and took the same picture for the same purpose. This is supposed to be enticing?? FO pay isn't bad, but what's the point of sticking around for the capt pay? It's laughable.

There's a 2 year bond, that probably helps with the 'sticking around' part

cjp wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:46 pm They also have a 25 year payscale, increasing less than 1-2% per year. But people still apply, cause realistically it's marginally better than the regionals.

It’s exactly like a regional.

Below average pay, work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced), bonded on each type, a pay-scale that doesn’t match inflation so you devalue every year you are there, some benefits and very little retirement savings (that they claw back if you don’t stay half a decade ). But you get the benefit of flying newer equipment, working around the clock with a questionable FRMS program, short call-outs and associated drama. Oh, and you have the change the lav bucket. But. BUT. You can look forward to a 25 year scale of keeping the same value (provided inflation gets back under 2%] and never really increasing with accumulating experience. You can keep the hotel points though!

When you graduate (or quit in frustration), you will move to a mainline carrier, or a ‘mainline’ corporate gig. Double the pay that exceeds inflation annually (your value only keeps going up), half the working days or less, more notice on upcoming trips, actual and credible retirement savings plan or pension, bonuses at random including retention bonuses, stock options, no bonds, and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.

Did I get all of that right?

At "mainline carriers" you fly more than 9 days per month.. Unless you're on top of seniority list.

Minimums wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:33 am

cjp wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:46 pm They also have a 25 year payscale, increasing less than 1-2% per year. But people still apply, cause realistically it's marginally better than the regionals.

It’s exactly like a regional.

Below average pay, work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced), bonded on each type, a pay-scale that doesn’t match inflation so you devalue every year you are there, some benefits and very little retirement savings (that they claw back if you don’t stay half a decade ). But you get the benefit of flying newer equipment, working around the clock with a questionable FRMS program, short call-outs and associated drama. Oh, and you have the change the lav bucket. But. BUT. You can look forward to a 25 year scale of keeping the same value (provided inflation gets back under 2%] and never really increasing with accumulating experience. You can keep the hotel points though!

When you graduate (or quit in frustration), you will move to a mainline carrier, or a ‘mainline’ corporate gig. Double the pay that exceeds inflation annually (your value only keeps going up), half the working days or less, more notice on upcoming trips, actual and credible retirement savings plan or pension, bonuses at random including retention bonuses, stock options, no bonds, and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.

Did I get all of that right?

At "mainline carriers" you fly more than 9 days per month..

garfield wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:08 am At "mainline carriers" you fly more than 9 days per month.. Unless you're on top of seniority list.

Minimums wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:33 am

cjp wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:46 pm They also have a 25 year payscale, increasing less than 1-2% per year. But people still apply, cause realistically it's marginally better than the regionals.

It’s exactly like a regional.

Below average pay, work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced), bonded on each type, a pay-scale that doesn’t match inflation so you devalue every year you are there, some benefits and very little retirement savings (that they claw back if you don’t stay half a decade ). But you get the benefit of flying newer equipment, working around the clock with a questionable FRMS program, short call-outs and associated drama. Oh, and you have the change the lav bucket. But. BUT. You can look forward to a 25 year scale of keeping the same value (provided inflation gets back under 2%] and never really increasing with accumulating experience. You can keep the hotel points though!

When you graduate (or quit in frustration), you will move to a mainline carrier, or a ‘mainline’ corporate gig. Double the pay that exceeds inflation annually (your value only keeps going up), half the working days or less, more notice on upcoming trips, actual and credible retirement savings plan or pension, bonuses at random including retention bonuses, stock options, no bonds, and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.

Did I get all of that right?

At "mainline carriers" you fly more than 9 days per month..

Not necessarily, where I work I work more than 9 days if I want overtime

I'd love to hear which King Air operators are offering $135k at the bottom end of their pay scale.

Minimums wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:33 am Did I get all of that right?

But you are comparing the person at mainline with a decade or more of experience, to the new hire at another company.

New hire at mainline gets hired for a base they cant afford to live in, so they commute and stay in a crash pad to sit on reserve.

Minimums wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:33 am

cjp wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:46 pm They also have a 25 year payscale, increasing less than 1-2% per year. But people still apply, cause realistically it's marginally better than the regionals.

It’s exactly like a regional.

Below average pay, work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced), bonded on each type, a pay-scale that doesn’t match inflation so you devalue every year you are there, some benefits and very little retirement savings (that they claw back if you don’t stay half a decade ). But you get the benefit of flying newer equipment, working around the clock with a questionable FRMS program, short call-outs and associated drama. Oh, and you have the change the lav bucket. But. BUT. You can look forward to a 25 year scale of keeping the same value (provided inflation gets back under 2%] and never really increasing with accumulating experience. You can keep the hotel points though!

When you graduate (or quit in frustration), you will move to a mainline carrier, or a ‘mainline’ corporate gig. Double the pay that exceeds inflation annually (your value only keeps going up), half the working days or less, more notice on upcoming trips, actual and credible retirement savings plan or pension, bonuses at random including retention bonuses, stock options, no bonds, and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.

Did I get all of that right?

My goodness, show me on the doll where the scary Airsprint hurt you?!

I wasn’t going to respond to this because arguing on a forum is like wrestling with a pig in their favourite environment, but in case anyone may be interested in a future with Airsprint I can’t help but make a few comments.

“Below average pay”
Really? Care to point out an operator that pays better for a light jet? We’re talking about a CJ3 here. A very easy to fly, beginner jet. And there is only a couple companies in Canada starting FO’s higher than $80k. And upgraded don’t take a decade.
Lynx just posted an ad today for direct entry 737 captains at $133,678/yr. And you need 500hrs on something over 75,000lbs or 1000hrs 737 to even be considered.

“work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced)“
Everyone starts on the 16/12 schedule. You aren’t working 17+ a month unless you want to bump up to the 18/10 sched that pays more money, $151,875 for year 1 CJ captain or $90k for year one FO. I fly a 8 on, 6 off set rotation and the last 2 months in my 16 available days, I flew 11 and 12 respectively. Oh, and I know my schedule until next May.
The only times you are “forced” Is if you get drafted for an extra day at the end of your rotation. Has happened to me around 2-3 times a year. Not a common thing, eventually now that crewing numbers are up. And if you do get drafted, you get draft pay. It’s variable, depending on your salary, but a year 1 CJ captain on the 16/12 would get paid $1038 for being drafted an extra day.

Yes there are 2 year bonds. Welcome to any job outside an airline. In don’t love it either, is what it is.

“Pay scale that doesn’t match inflation”
Yup, I would love a scale that was tied to inflation, maybe one day. But in the meantime, Airsprint has been one of the few companies to voluntarily raise pay fairly early in the game. They adjust the scales when they see they are falling away from standard. Whether you like that style or not, my pay has definitely stayed ahead of inflation over the last couple years.

“Work around the clock”
Not really, very little flying in the garbage hours of the night.
Mostly just regular daytime flying.

And that last one- “and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.”
The management at Airsprint is the best I’ve ever seen and they definitely know your name and respect your decisions.

If you are expecting a place like Airsprint to ever pay as much as AC, or throw around huge yearly bonuses like a corporate flight department you’re not living in reality. That being said, they are getting better every year and personally, I’m excited to see what the future holds here because, believe it or not, there are pilots out there that have zero interest in working at AC or WJ and having a schedule/ not being on call 24/7(like a true corporate gig) is high on the priority list.

If you worked at Airsprint and hated it, that’s fine, it’s not for everyone. But if you worked there a while ago, things have come a long way and for the better.

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm My goodness, show me on the doll where the scary Airsprint hurt you?!

I wasn’t going to respond to this because arguing on a forum is like wrestling with a pig in their favourite environment, but in case anyone may be interested in a future with Airsprint I can’t help but make a few comments.

“Below average pay”
Really? Care to point out an operator that pays better for a light jet? We’re talking about a CJ3 here. A very easy to fly, beginner jet. And there is only a couple companies in Canada starting FO’s higher than $80k. And upgraded don’t take a decade.
Lynx just posted an ad today for direct entry 737 captains at $133,678/yr. And you need 500hrs on something over 75,000lbs or 1000hrs 737 to even be considered.

“work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced)“
Everyone starts on the 16/12 schedule. You aren’t working 17+ a month unless you want to bump up to the 18/10 sched that pays more money, $151,875 for year 1 CJ captain or $90k for year one FO. I fly a 8 on, 6 off set rotation and the last 2 months in my 16 available days, I flew 11 and 12 respectively. Oh, and I know my schedule until next May.
The only times you are “forced” Is if you get drafted for an extra day at the end of your rotation. Has happened to me around 2-3 times a year. Not a common thing, eventually now that crewing numbers are up. And if you do get drafted, you get draft pay. It’s variable, depending on your salary, but a year 1 CJ captain on the 16/12 would get paid $1038 for being drafted an extra day.

Yes there are 2 year bonds. Welcome to any job outside an airline. In don’t love it either, is what it is.

“Pay scale that doesn’t match inflation”
Yup, I would love a scale that was tied to inflation, maybe one day. But in the meantime, Airsprint has been one of the few companies to voluntarily raise pay fairly early in the game. They adjust the scales when they see they are falling away from standard. Whether you like that style or not, my pay has definitely stayed ahead of inflation over the last couple years.

“Work around the clock”
Not really, very little flying in the garbage hours of the night.
Mostly just regular daytime flying.

And that last one- “and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.”
The management at Airsprint is the best I’ve ever seen and they definitely know your name and respect your decisions.

If you are expecting a place like Airsprint to ever pay as much as AC, or throw around huge yearly bonuses like a corporate flight department you’re not living in reality. That being said, they are getting better every year and personally, I’m excited to see what the future holds here because, believe it or not, there are pilots out there that have zero interest in working at AC or WJ and having a schedule/ not being on call 24/7(like a true corporate gig) is high on the priority list.

If you worked at Airsprint and hated it, that’s fine, it’s not for everyone. But if you worked there a while ago, things have come a long way and for the better.

I'm not going to knock AS because I know people there that like it a lot. That being said, I personally know places that pay more for both seats on similar aircraft (especially given FO scale doesn't change regardless of jet), aren't true 604 departments and have a pre defined schedule.

You compared to Lynx, the new lowest paying 73 operator in Canada, hardly higher than Jazz to be honest, at least Lynx is an affordable base.

I don't know the specifics but if the company can involuntarily draft you after a rotation, it sounds like a day that you shouldn't make firm appointments or commitments, this shouldn't be a thing.

Although pay has currently kept up with inflation, with the current pay structure there is no guarantee this will continue. Theoretically you could join today and have the same or less buying power as today after 25 years of raises.

Don't get me wrong, I know some happy people there, but the discussion on either sides hasn't felt balanced.

flyingjerry wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:02 pm

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm My goodness, show me on the doll where the scary Airsprint hurt you?!

I wasn’t going to respond to this because arguing on a forum is like wrestling with a pig in their favourite environment, but in case anyone may be interested in a future with Airsprint I can’t help but make a few comments.

“Below average pay”
Really? Care to point out an operator that pays better for a light jet? We’re talking about a CJ3 here. A very easy to fly, beginner jet. And there is only a couple companies in Canada starting FO’s higher than $80k. And upgraded don’t take a decade.
Lynx just posted an ad today for direct entry 737 captains at $133,678/yr. And you need 500hrs on something over 75,000lbs or 1000hrs 737 to even be considered.

“work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced)“
Everyone starts on the 16/12 schedule. You aren’t working 17+ a month unless you want to bump up to the 18/10 sched that pays more money, $151,875 for year 1 CJ captain or $90k for year one FO. I fly a 8 on, 6 off set rotation and the last 2 months in my 16 available days, I flew 11 and 12 respectively. Oh, and I know my schedule until next May.
The only times you are “forced” Is if you get drafted for an extra day at the end of your rotation. Has happened to me around 2-3 times a year. Not a common thing, eventually now that crewing numbers are up. And if you do get drafted, you get draft pay. It’s variable, depending on your salary, but a year 1 CJ captain on the 16/12 would get paid $1038 for being drafted an extra day.

Yes there are 2 year bonds. Welcome to any job outside an airline. In don’t love it either, is what it is.

“Pay scale that doesn’t match inflation”
Yup, I would love a scale that was tied to inflation, maybe one day. But in the meantime, Airsprint has been one of the few companies to voluntarily raise pay fairly early in the game. They adjust the scales when they see they are falling away from standard. Whether you like that style or not, my pay has definitely stayed ahead of inflation over the last couple years.

“Work around the clock”
Not really, very little flying in the garbage hours of the night.
Mostly just regular daytime flying.

And that last one- “and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.”
The management at Airsprint is the best I’ve ever seen and they definitely know your name and respect your decisions.

If you are expecting a place like Airsprint to ever pay as much as AC, or throw around huge yearly bonuses like a corporate flight department you’re not living in reality. That being said, they are getting better every year and personally, I’m excited to see what the future holds here because, believe it or not, there are pilots out there that have zero interest in working at AC or WJ and having a schedule/ not being on call 24/7(like a true corporate gig) is high on the priority list.

If you worked at Airsprint and hated it, that’s fine, it’s not for everyone. But if you worked there a while ago, things have come a long way and for the better.

I'm not going to knock AS because I know people there that like it a lot. That being said, I personally know places that pay more for both seats on similar aircraft (especially given FO scale doesn't change regardless of jet), aren't true 604 departments and have a pre defined schedule.

You compared to Lynx, the new lowest paying 73 operator in Canada, hardly higher than Jazz to be honest, at least Lynx is an affordable base.

I don't know the specifics but if the company can involuntarily draft you after a rotation, it sounds like a day that you shouldn't make firm appointments or commitments, this shouldn't be a thing.

Although pay has currently kept up with inflation, with the current pay structure there is no guarantee this will continue. Theoretically you could join today and have the same or less buying power as today after 25 years of raises.

Don't get me wrong, I know some happy people there, but the discussion on either sides hasn't felt balanced.

I only quoted Lynx because I had just seen their ad, but yes, a low example.

I would love to see a 12 year scale instead of a 25 and a scale tied to inflation but I’m also not egregiously mad at what we have either. Unless there is a complete transplant of management I would bet a large sum of money that we won’t be on the same payscale for the next 25 years, so you are correct in theory but in reality it extremely unlikely to play out like that.

If money is your number one priority in your career you would stupid to go anywhere but AC. As I said earlier though, there are some who have other priorities high on the list, like not having to commute for the rest of their career if unwilling to move to an AC base, not having to spend half your life in terminals, and not having to fly the same mind numbing routes till the end of time.

I agree that drafting shouldn’t happen. It’s rare, but not ideal at all. Although I would take the possibility of being drafted a few times a year(and getting compensation for it) the. Having to commute to YYZ, YUL, or YVR for the rest of my career on my days off.

Let's try to look at this as objectively as possible then.

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm
“work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced)“
Everyone starts on the 16/12 schedule. You aren’t working 17+ a month unless you want to bump up to the 18/10 sched that pays more money, $151,875 for year 1 CJ captain or $90k for year one FO. I fly a 8 on, 6 off set rotation and the last 2 months in my 16 available days, I flew 11 and 12 respectively. Oh, and I know my schedule until next May.
The only times you are “forced” Is if you get drafted for an extra day at the end of your rotation. Has happened to me around 2-3 times a year. Not a common thing, eventually now that crewing numbers are up. And if you do get drafted, you get draft pay. It’s variable, depending on your salary, but a year 1 CJ captain on the 16/12 would get paid $1038 for being drafted an extra day.

16 on / 12 off per block of 28 months equals 208.57 days of work per year.
Adding 3 draft days a year, adds up to 211.57 days per year
Divided by 12, that turns in to 17.63 days of work per month. So yes, 17+

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm Yes there are 2 year bonds. Welcome to any job outside an airline. In don’t love it either, is what it is.

“Pay scale that doesn’t match inflation”
Yup, I would love a scale that was tied to inflation, maybe one day. But in the meantime, Airsprint has been one of the few companies to voluntarily raise pay fairly early in the game. They adjust the scales when they see they are falling away from standard. Whether you like that style or not, my pay has definitely stayed ahead of inflation over the last couple years.

'falling away from standard' basically means they raise pay when too many pilots leave, and they are becoming too hard to replace. In that strategy, you'll always have a significant number of unhappy employees. You should cherish those. It's the unhappy ones, and mainly the ones leaving, that will give the ones who stay a pay raise.

If you've beaten inflation every year, then surely the company should be able to commit to inflation raises in their pay scales, and then adjust it higher when they are falling away from the standard again?

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm
“Work around the clock”
Not really, very little flying in the garbage hours of the night.
Mostly just regular daytime flying.

Are you allowed to switch off your phone yet during your rest period?

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm
If you worked at Airsprint and hated it, that’s fine, it’s not for everyone. But if you worked there a while ago, things have come a long way and for the better.

Then the question becomes: do you want to gamble 35k to find out if it's for you?

digits_ wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:59 am Let's try to look at this as objectively as possible then.

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm
“work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced)“
Everyone starts on the 16/12 schedule. You aren’t working 17+ a month unless you want to bump up to the 18/10 sched that pays more money, $151,875 for year 1 CJ captain or $90k for year one FO. I fly a 8 on, 6 off set rotation and the last 2 months in my 16 available days, I flew 11 and 12 respectively. Oh, and I know my schedule until next May.
The only times you are “forced” Is if you get drafted for an extra day at the end of your rotation. Has happened to me around 2-3 times a year. Not a common thing, eventually now that crewing numbers are up. And if you do get drafted, you get draft pay. It’s variable, depending on your salary, but a year 1 CJ captain on the 16/12 would get paid $1038 for being drafted an extra day.

16 on / 12 off per block of 28 months equals 208.57 days of work per year.
Adding 3 draft days a year, adds up to 211.57 days per year
Divided by 12, that turns in to 17.63 days of work per month. So yes, 17+

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm Yes there are 2 year bonds. Welcome to any job outside an airline. In don’t love it either, is what it is.

“Pay scale that doesn’t match inflation”
Yup, I would love a scale that was tied to inflation, maybe one day. But in the meantime, Airsprint has been one of the few companies to voluntarily raise pay fairly early in the game. They adjust the scales when they see they are falling away from standard. Whether you like that style or not, my pay has definitely stayed ahead of inflation over the last couple years.

'falling away from standard' basically means they raise pay when too many pilots leave, and they are becoming too hard to replace. In that strategy, you'll always have a significant number of unhappy employees. You should cherish those. It's the unhappy ones, and mainly the ones leaving, that will give the ones who stay a pay raise.

If you've beaten inflation every year, then surely the company should be able to commit to inflation raises in their pay scales, and then adjust it higher when they are falling away from the standard again?

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm
“Work around the clock”
Not really, very little flying in the garbage hours of the night.
Mostly just regular daytime flying.

Are you allowed to switch off your phone yet during your rest period?

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm
If you worked at Airsprint and hated it, that’s fine, it’s not for everyone. But if you worked there a while ago, things have come a long way and for the better.

Then the question becomes: do you want to gamble 35k to find out if it's for you?

Yes there are 13 blocks of 28 in a year, I see what you’re saying but the reality is you don’t work 17+ in a month.

I’m not arguing that an inflationary protected pay scale wouldn’t be awesome, it would! Would love to see that one day, I’m simply pointing out that the scale raises are keeping up. Simply pointing out some facts.

You can turn your phone to “do not disturb”, not off completely. If you get called in your rest it’s to reset your rest from that point, not call you in to work, that can’t be done.

Are you talking about gambling the bond? Airsprint is one of the open/ transparent companies on here, there is lots of up to date information on this site alone and pretty much all of management have posted their email addresses telling anyone and everyone to email with questions directly. If you can’t get a good idea of whether or not you’ll like it or absolutely hate it from the information/ resources that is at your fingertips already then you’re making an uneducated gamble.

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:22 am
You can turn your phone to “do not disturb”, not off completely. If you get called in your rest it’s to reset your rest from that point, not call you in to work, that can’t be done.

Why would that ever be necessary? There's no advantage to 'resetting your rest from that point'. None.

I've heard stories from Air Sprint pilots where their rest was supposed to start at 10 pm, then get called at 10:30 for a short flight because it still fit within their original duty day. Are those stories true?

Do they tell you when your rest actually starts, or is it something like 'we didn't call you for 8 hours, so that was your rest'? There have been a few older posts here hinting it was kind of a loosey goosey setup.

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:22 am Are you talking about gambling the bond? Airsprint is one of the open/ transparent companies on here, there is lots of up to date information on this site alone and pretty much all of management have posted their email addresses telling anyone and everyone to email with questions directly. If you can’t get a good idea of whether or not you’ll like it or absolutely hate it from the information/ resources that is at your fingertips already then you’re making an uneducated gamble.

Yes I'm talking about the bond.

How many of the Air Sprint pilots have been employed at Air Sprint for over 3 years? Perhaps a number per CJ and Legacy fleet might be helpful as well. That would be a good indication of what percentage of pilots thinks the job matches their expectations.

If you don't know what to ask, then you won't get the answer. An obvious example would be the changing of the lav bucket mentioned above. Not something I would ever think of asking when applying for a jet job. It's not mentioned in the job ad, and I wouldn't even have suspected that was a job requirement.

Won't somebody please post which King Air operators' pay scales start at $135k? I've signed a blank cheque for my bond, I just need to know who to make it out to.

To address checkspeed earlier comments,

““Work around the clock”
Not really, very little flying in the garbage hours of the night.
Mostly just regular daytime flying.“

Basically we’ll be flying all day everyday but hey they give us time to eat and sleep!

Further to your “you don’t work 17+ days a month”. Your on call, your working. Can you have a beer on the days “you don’t fly”? That is still work bud. Don’t put lipstick on a pig. So digits math is correct when you factor in a few drafts a year you are now 17+, right?

“You can turn your phone to “do not disturb”, not off completely. If you get called in your rest it’s to reset your rest from that point, not call you in to work, that can’t be done.”

Uhhh maybe. Or more likely your getting a 2.5 hour call-out. So what you can turn you “do not disturb”. You get called you are going. 1pm or 1 am and everything in between. Late night or middle night call outs are extremely rare but 5 am and beyond are fair game.

Looks like you’re coming out of a true 604 with no real schedule and landed ASP early this year, honeymoon is still fresh. Revisit this thread in a year or two, it’ll have aged like a fine milk I’ll bet.

I’m well past the honeymoon phase with the company and have been here a lot longer than 6 months. I still enjoy it.

Everyone’s point of reference is different. Obviously you and Digits and I aren’t on the same page, or even reading similar books.

I hope all you guys get your dream job, whatever that may be.

Have a good one.

Checkspeed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:49 pm

Minimums wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:33 am

cjp wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:46 pm They also have a 25 year payscale, increasing less than 1-2% per year. But people still apply, cause realistically it's marginally better than the regionals.

It’s exactly like a regional.

Below average pay, work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced), bonded on each type, a pay-scale that doesn’t match inflation so you devalue every year you are there, some benefits and very little retirement savings (that they claw back if you don’t stay half a decade ). But you get the benefit of flying newer equipment, working around the clock with a questionable FRMS program, short call-outs and associated drama. Oh, and you have the change the lav bucket. But. BUT. You can look forward to a 25 year scale of keeping the same value (provided inflation gets back under 2%] and never really increasing with accumulating experience. You can keep the hotel points though!

When you graduate (or quit in frustration), you will move to a mainline carrier, or a ‘mainline’ corporate gig. Double the pay that exceeds inflation annually (your value only keeps going up), half the working days or less, more notice on upcoming trips, actual and credible retirement savings plan or pension, bonuses at random including retention bonuses, stock options, no bonds, and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.

Did I get all of that right?

My goodness, show me on the doll where the scary Airsprint hurt you?!

I wasn’t going to respond to this because arguing on a forum is like wrestling with a pig in their favourite environment, but in case anyone may be interested in a future with Airsprint I can’t help but make a few comments.

“Below average pay”
Really? Care to point out an operator that pays better for a light jet? We’re talking about a CJ3 here. A very easy to fly, beginner jet. And there is only a couple companies in Canada starting FO’s higher than $80k. And upgraded don’t take a decade.
Lynx just posted an ad today for direct entry 737 captains at $133,678/yr. And you need 500hrs on something over 75,000lbs or 1000hrs 737 to even be considered.

“work 17+ days a month (sometimes forced)“
Everyone starts on the 16/12 schedule. You aren’t working 17+ a month unless you want to bump up to the 18/10 sched that pays more money, $151,875 for year 1 CJ captain or $90k for year one FO. I fly a 8 on, 6 off set rotation and the last 2 months in my 16 available days, I flew 11 and 12 respectively. Oh, and I know my schedule until next May.
The only times you are “forced” Is if you get drafted for an extra day at the end of your rotation. Has happened to me around 2-3 times a year. Not a common thing, eventually now that crewing numbers are up. And if you do get drafted, you get draft pay. It’s variable, depending on your salary, but a year 1 CJ captain on the 16/12 would get paid $1038 for being drafted an extra day.

Yes there are 2 year bonds. Welcome to any job outside an airline. In don’t love it either, is what it is.

“Pay scale that doesn’t match inflation”
Yup, I would love a scale that was tied to inflation, maybe one day. But in the meantime, Airsprint has been one of the few companies to voluntarily raise pay fairly early in the game. They adjust the scales when they see they are falling away from standard. Whether you like that style or not, my pay has definitely stayed ahead of inflation over the last couple years.

“Work around the clock”
Not really, very little flying in the garbage hours of the night.
Mostly just regular daytime flying.

And that last one- “and the bosses know your name and respect your decisions.”
The management at Airsprint is the best I’ve ever seen and they definitely know your name and respect your decisions.

If you are expecting a place like Airsprint to ever pay as much as AC, or throw around huge yearly bonuses like a corporate flight department you’re not living in reality. That being said, they are getting better every year and personally, I’m excited to see what the future holds here because, believe it or not, there are pilots out there that have zero interest in working at AC or WJ and having a schedule/ not being on call 24/7(like a true corporate gig) is high on the priority list.

If you worked at Airsprint and hated it, that’s fine, it’s not for everyone. But if you worked there a while ago, things have come a long way and for the better.

One can learn a lot from observation and publicly available documents. I’ve spoken with enough crews to get a good read.

Pay. It’s only a single metric but an important one. Long story short, there really are other operators with similar sized types (phenom, lear, older 560’s) that exceed the AS scale. Your emb is farther behind in the midsized category, nearly 30k in today’s world. Comparing wages against the bottom feeder of the airline world to justify your entitlement fools no one. Most reputable 705’s start near 200k. So do most corporate gigs worth their salt and go way up quickly and it doesn’t take 25 years to do so.

You work 17 plus days a month, some of it forced/drafted. Yes you are paid for it, but you are already underpaid for your workload, so that doesn’t really make up for it, does it? Some days might be sitting in a hotel or resort somewhere not of your choosing, only a phone call away from work, you are still working. You are still on call 24/7, it’s how your frms is setup. That’s great you fly mostly daylight hours, but you are still on call, just like a true corporate gig.

Bonds. There are places without them, worked at a few, they exist. Bottom feeders need them for retainment, period. What nabs me is if you switch types internally with AS, even if you’ve done a decade and proven your worth, they still don’t trust you, and lasso you for another one.

Inflation. Hot topic last couple years. If you aren’t tied to it plus an increase above it, you are treading water at best. Sure, they’ve upped the pay scale a couple times. Great. With all your years of experience you think you have kept up with it as the scales changed, but have you? What about increased value with experience? In 25 years (current payscale) you’ll still be worth the name as you are today, maybe less..?

Why not tie said scale to inflation? Business decision. The whole system is designed to have people out the door before the 5 year mark on a continuous basis, as it’s when pilots generally get expensive. It’s just economics. Regional airlines are designed the same way, constant turnover. Can you make a career out of it? Sure you can, not bashing those who do, that’s a choice for you and you only. Kool-aid is kool-aid though, and you’ll end up tired of the taste eventually, constantly working short staffed, overtime, etc that come with stepping stone employment. You choose to work there, fine, but there are truly greener pastures. I suggest looking at one that actually invests in you (Retirement is an eventuality for everyone).

There is no reason why AS can’t have bonuses or more pay and better retirement options. Look at what flexjet and netjets have done south of the border. They easily match or exceed what true corporate operations are doing down there, all with the job security and airline like set schedules, and are a major competitor against the airline world.

AS could be the same, you just have to get collected and organize to force the issue, they can afford it. Actually surprised you haven’t yet; there is no better time.

Minimums

I'm starting to wonder if this King Air job is even real.