Nav Canadas new radar system kaput

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Bigskycanada
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Nav Canadas new radar system kaput

Post by Bigskycanada »

So word is that Winnipeg ACCs all singing all dancing radar system CATS had a major malfunction on Thursday and it has been switched off with the ACC going back to their old system.Apparently it hasnt worked properly since they turned it on back in June.
Nav Canada has been keeping this very quiet.
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lilfssister
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Post by lilfssister »

It's spelled "CAATS". If you're going to slag something, you could at least spell it correctly. (And before you chat addicts laff yr butts off, I know, I know...)
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Pygmie
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Re: Nav Canadas new radar system kaput

Post by Pygmie »

Bigskycanada wrote:... Apparently it hasnt worked properly since they turned it on back in June.
Nav Canada has been keeping this very quiet.
What? You mean a complex new system that was in it's testing phase wasn't working 100% perfect as soon as they turned it on?

And yah, I guess NOTAMs issued saying the new system is being tested and to expect some delays is keeping it quiet. . . I mean, come on, who reads those things anyways!
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Bigskycanada
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Post by Bigskycanada »

Correct me if I am wrong but a ANS system not working 100% when being implemented.You have to be fucking kidding.Not fully tested before going live?Once again you have to be fucking kidding.
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zzjayca
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Post by zzjayca »

MURRAY wrote:Its a good thing ARTS III worked flawlessly for the FAA immediately upon implementation. Got any smartass comments for that Big Sky? Any constructive input whatsoever?

Or, any knowledge of the system for that matter?
Do you have any knowledge of the system? Have you worked with this piece of s@$! system for the last month? Or are you automatically going to dismiss Big Sky's comments out of hand?

If an ATC student can only do the job 90% of the time, the student doesn't check out. I only wish CAATS was even close to 90%. Unless, of course, you are talking system resource usage. System resource usage was more like 95% plus consistently. Try running any computer system for very long with those type of numbers.
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Last edited by zzjayca on Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
zzjayca
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Post by zzjayca »

lilfssister wrote:It's spelled "CAATS". If you're going to slag something, you could at least spell it correctly. (And before you chat addicts laff yr butts off, I know, I know...)
Don't worry about the spelling honey, CAATS slags itself no matter what you call it. Try asking a controller who actually controls aircraft using this piece of s$%! system.
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Bigskycanada
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Post by Bigskycanada »

Well murray do you have knowlede of the system?Did you use it?I will be honest and say I didnt, but sounds like zzjayca certainly has and he is all for it :roll:
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lilfssister
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Post by lilfssister »

zzjayca wrote:
lilfssister wrote:It's spelled "CAATS". If you're going to slag something, you could at least spell it correctly. (And before you chat addicts laff yr butts off, I know, I know...)
Don't worry about the spelling honey, CAATS slags itself no matter what you call it. Try asking a controller who actually controls aircraft using this piece of s$%! system.
Sorry, sugarlump, I could have sworn this thread was about Navcan supposedly trying to hide the failure of a CAATS ORD, not whether the people using it liked the system or not. :smt056
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ywg-atc
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Post by ywg-atc »

From someone else who used it, it was terrible, and I'm glad it's gone.
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lilfssister
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Post by lilfssister »

ywg-atc wrote:From someone else who used it, it was terrible, and I'm glad it's gone.
Gone, or postponed?
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Pygmie
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Post by Pygmie »

lilfssister wrote:
ywg-atc wrote:From someone else who used it, it was terrible, and I'm glad it's gone.
Gone, or postponed?
Postponed
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FamilyGuy
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Post by FamilyGuy »

Interesting logic...other countries have failures so that makes it understandable??? I would think if anything that should make everyone more cautious - its not like its an unknown risk.

Lets see any major city install a traffic light control system that occasionally glitches and makes all the lights green - just for a few seconds each day, or occasionally needs to take a little time out to catch up. That would actually be fine (might even really happen - who knows) until someone got killed AND the real reason why was "uncovered", then it would be front page news and heads would roll.
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lilfssister
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Post by lilfssister »

And didn't they have the old system as a back-up? Not like the old one was shut down and thrown in an incinerator or something? :?
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lilfssister
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Post by lilfssister »

Henny Penny...resistant to change...same thing???
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FamilyGuy
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Post by FamilyGuy »

Don't really know what you could mean by an "ulterior motive" Murray?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the first post say "major malfunction"? Is that correct or not? If it's just little glitches I agree with you, but that's not what was posted.
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FamilyGuy
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Post by FamilyGuy »

Could be speculative or is?

Don't hold back now - you seem to have a strong opinion - before I dismiss it out of hand is that based on factual knowledge or are you another part of your mathematical equation...
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Bigskycanada
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Post by Bigskycanada »

FACT The "major" system malfunction was a processor problem that had been identified weeks before and supposedly been fixed.
FACT over 900 "glitches" with the system had been identified by controllers that requierd rectification.Many of these issues were dismissed as "known behaviour" and controllers would have to work around them.
FACT there is talk of fixing the processor fault and turning the system back on without a guarantee of the other identified issues being fixed.
FACT controller workload increased significantly by the system
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The Velvet Fog
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Post by The Velvet Fog »

I'm sensing that you're not impressed with it
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Jerricho
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Post by Jerricho »

.........
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Last edited by Jerricho on Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lexx
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Post by lexx »

While the reality may be that CAATS is more labour intensive, latest rumour has Nav Canada going full bore ahead with this in Toronto, and the perception from very high up is that the system when fully implemented will be very labour saving.

Labour saving to the point of cutting back on hiring now, and just hiring to maintain the status quo.

Just a rumour mind you.
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Jerricho
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Post by Jerricho »

Just to let you know Lexx, a group of SMEs from YWG are off to Ottawa on Monday for preliminary testing of software updates for the system. Now, as to what has been "updated:, we will see.
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invertedattitude
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Post by invertedattitude »

I may have missed someone posting this

But both QX and QM have CAATS up and operational for quite some time now at least in its current state.

YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?
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greykin
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Post by greykin »

av8rpei wrote:I may have missed someone posting this

But both QX and QM have CAATS up and operational for quite some time now at least in its current state.

YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?
QX and QM do not handle the same type of traffic as YWG. A fraction of the low-level stuff, no use of flight itineraries, no altitudes until the handoff (???), etc. They were using about 20% of CAATS' functionality, so nobody realized what a piece of crap the rest of the system was.

We spent 40 days "working through the issues" in YWG, and just about every moment was a pain in the ass, right up until the point where the system crashed and most screens went red, so watch your tone "trainee".
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Post by Pygmie »

av8rpei wrote:I may have missed someone posting this

But both QX and QM have CAATS up and operational for quite some time now at least in its current state.

YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?
Yes, and QM took over 2 YEARS to implement it, and pulled it out a few times as well when it crashed.
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Post by Jerricho »

av8rpei wrote:YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?
Are you feckin serious??? :roll: Don't be such a wanker.

As one of the SMEs on the project, I can tell you the staff at YWG ACC all deserve huge pats on the back for the effort that went in to the ORD. Ask your SMEs that were out here to help (Hey Cliffy! ;) ) just what was going on. Also, ask them what has been added to CAATS that once the software has been certified will be taken east to update the version out there.
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