Perimeter Runway Excursion

[pelmet]

From TSB....

C-GJVW, a Fairchild SA227-DC operated by Perimeter Aviation as PAG/BL4330 was conducting a
flight from Toronto Pearson International Airport (CYYZ), ON to North Bay/Jack Garland Airport
(CYYB), ON and then to Detour Lake Aerodrome (CDT9), ON. During the first attempt to land on
Runway 10 in CDT9, the crew conducted a missed approach due to the aircraft not being correctly
positioned to land. Once past the threshold on the second approach, the right wing and nose
contacted the runway, resulting in damage to the aircraft. The aircraft veered to the right and came
to rest after sliding off the side of the runway, down an embankment. The aircraft sustained
substantial damage to the landing gear, engines, propellers, wings and fuselage. The was no post-
crash fire.All 2 crew and 8 passengers egressed, some sustained minor injuries. The ELT did not activate.
The Aerodrome and emergency personnel responded.

Happened in September.

[cdnavater]

This is a crash, not a “runway excursion”, they even use the word crash in your TSB report.
As for what caused the right wing to contact the runway on the second attempt, I would like to know what the winds were?
Also, what is the level of experience working for Perimeter these days?

[pelmet]

This is a crash, not a “runway excursion”, they even use the word crash in your TSB report.
As for what caused the right wing to contact the runway on the second attempt, I would like to know what the winds were?
Also, what is the level of experience working for Perimeter these days?

The runway excursion was part of the crash.

[cdnavater]

You’re all over the place, you have a “Crashed on takeoff” thread, a “runway excursion” thread, then you create this thread which is clearly a crashed on landing accident and title it runway excursion which is akin to the “hard landing” of the AC YHZ accident. It’s misleading and downplays what really happened.
I’m actually a little concerned at how these types of accidents aren’t getting much or any publicity, this one in September, the recent MU2 in Wawa with no pictures or much information at all. I’m not going to say there’s a conspiracy to keep these things quiet but what is going on, is a question I’d like a answer to.

[nobody23]

May: Skycare crashes short of the runway
September: Superior Caravan off the end of Pikangikum
September: Bearskin metro crash at Detour Lake
November: NorthStar Pilatus off the end of the runway at Kasabonika

[dogfood]

This is a crash, not a “runway excursion”, they even use the word crash in your TSB report.
As for what caused the right wing to contact the runway on the second attempt, I would like to know what the winds were?
Also, what is the level of experience working for Perimeter these days?

Was embarrassing before Covid could only imagine how bad it is now

[BTD]

Going back through the TSB website, these kinds of accidents happen multiple times a year and have been for a long time.

[pelmet]

You’re all over the place, you have a “Crashed on takeoff” thread, a “runway excursion” thread, then you create this thread which is clearly a crashed on landing accident and title it runway excursion which is akin to the “hard landing” of the AC YHZ accident. It’s misleading and downplays what really happened.

Maybe the companies are paying me to keep it quiet.

Maybe Neil Armstrong never walked on the moon.

Maybe 9/11 was an inside job.

Maybe you need to see a shrink.

[cdnavater]

You’re all over the place, you have a “Crashed on takeoff” thread, a “runway excursion” thread, then you create this thread which is clearly a crashed on landing accident and title it runway excursion which is akin to the “hard landing” of the AC YHZ accident. It’s misleading and downplays what really happened.

Maybe the companies are paying me to keep it quiet.

Maybe Neil Armstrong never walked on the moon.

Maybe 9/11 was an inside job.

Maybe you need to see a shrink.

Geez you’re a dick aren’t you!
I don’t believe in any of the above or any other crackpot conspiracy, I do believe you like to create controversy with your posts. You seem biased against some companies and others not so much, you are also very inconsistent as I pointed out you have a thread that is supposedly for all “runway excursions” but this one in particular and even though you title it an excursion, it is technically a crash which resulted in said excursion.
You enjoy conflict, that is something your shrink would tell you, good day, dick!

[cdnavater]

Going back through the TSB website, these kinds of accidents happen multiple times a year and have been for a long time.

I’m sorry, are you saying, multiple times per year on landing an aircraft strikes its wing and nose leading to a crash and ending up off the runway?
Wow, I’ll have look in to that for my own curiosity, seems like something the public might be interested in.

[BTD]

Going back through the TSB website, these kinds of accidents happen multiple times a year and have been for a long time.

I’m sorry, are you saying, multiple times per year on landing an aircraft strikes its wing and nose leading to a crash and ending up off the runway?
Wow, I’ll have look in to that for my own curiosity, seems like something the public might be interested in.

No. I’m saying in a more general sense accidents on landing and takeoff in 703 operators happen multiple times per year. Any combination of hitting trees, landing short, going off the end etc. The airplane gets written off but nobody is seriously injured.

[digits_]

seems like something the public might be interested in.

Not really. It's not tourists or southern business people travelling on these planes. It's people working or living in the north, far away from the customers of the media outlets. As long as nobody dies, or only gets lightly injured, the public doesn't care. It's a whole other world.

Think about it: who would complain? Not the communities in which the crash happens, as the crappy runway conditions are often at least partially responsible for the crash (perhaps not in this particular accident). Not the pilots, as they usually screwed up something as well. Not the airline, as they don't want to draw any attention to it. Then there's the passengers. The people living in the remote community might try to get a small payday from the airline, but generally don't want to draw more attention to it. If they piss off the airline, there will be no air service anymore. That leaves the employees the company operating in the north. They generally have thick skin. As long as nobody dies, it's written off as an adventure and time to hop on the next plane.

Interestingly, this kind of operation is exactly where more experience would have the biggest effect on aviation safety. It would also result in the biggest ticket increases if the airline decided to pay what would be needed to attract experienced pilots.


But I'm sure you know all that already

[rookiepilot]

Maybe the companies are paying me to keep it quiet.

Maybe Neil Armstrong never walked on the moon.

Maybe 9/11 was an inside job.

Maybe you need to see a shrink.

Geez you’re a dick aren’t you!
I don’t believe in any of the above or any other crackpot conspiracy, I do believe you like to create controversy with your posts. You seem biased against some companies and others not so much, you are also very inconsistent as I pointed out you have a thread that is supposedly for all “runway excursions” but this one in particular and even though you title it an excursion, it is technically a crash which resulted in said excursion.
You enjoy conflict, that is something your shrink would tell you, good day, dick!

THE sole authority on accidents...don't you know?

[pelmet]

You’re all over the place, you have a “Crashed on takeoff” thread, a “runway excursion” thread, then you create this thread which is clearly a crashed on landing accident and title it runway excursion which is akin to the “hard landing” of the AC YHZ accident. It’s misleading and downplays what really happened.

Maybe the companies are paying me to keep it quiet.

Maybe Neil Armstrong never walked on the moon.

Maybe 9/11 was an inside job.

Maybe you need to see a shrink.

Geez you’re a dick aren’t you!
I don’t believe in any of the above or any other crackpot conspiracy, I do believe you like to create controversy with your posts. You seem biased against some companies and others not so much, you are also very inconsistent as I pointed out you have a thread that is supposedly for all “runway excursions” but this one in particular and even though you title it an excursion, it is technically a crash which resulted in said excursion.
You enjoy conflict, that is something your shrink would tell you, good day, dick!

All I did was post an accident on a new thread and I get accused downplaying and misleading. Well, I am the one who brought this event to light that no one else did.

This stupidity after being accused of making up TSB reports elsewhere on the forum.

Sorry that I don't meet your high standards for how my posts are titled and which of my own threads you feel I am supposed to put these incidents in. Now I am apparently favouring some airlines because a title today isn't the same as a title from a year ago that I have long forgotten.

To be honest, you do seem unstable to me. I can just imagine a poor F/O being berated by you for some meaningless thing in the cockpit that wasn't done to your liking("You put emphasis on a different syllable than when you made that call last time").

BTW……..Glad to see you are admitting there was an excursion. I only doubled down on it because you were the one being a dick.

Note: When I created this thread, I did take a look to see which thread might be appropriate. I saw one called Crashed on Takeoff but not one for landing. I figured that this incident was significant enough to warrant its own thread because of the damage. But for whatever reason at the time, chose the title I did. I think that I didn't read it that closely and thought the damage happened after the accident. In the end who cares? Well, it turns out one person running around with crackpot conspiracy theories cares.

P.S…… I read my post again, and actually…….it is pretty funny.

[pdw]

I would like to know what the winds were?

Gusting 20kts North. (Moosonee Kapuskasing Timmins Sept 7 9am)

[piperdriver]

You’re all over the place, you have a “Crashed on takeoff” thread, a “runway excursion” thread, then you create this thread which is clearly a crashed on landing accident and title it runway excursion which is akin to the “hard landing” of the AC YHZ accident. It’s misleading and downplays what really happened.
I’m actually a little concerned at how these types of accidents aren’t getting much or any publicity, this one in September, the recent MU2 in Wawa with no pictures or much information at all. I’m not going to say there’s a conspiracy to keep these things quiet but what is going on, is a question I’d like a answer to.

I agree with you 100% usually the Thunder Bay news will at least usually mention these incidents or crashes but they have been quiet. I am particularly puzzled by the PC-12 crash in Kasabonika; nothing in the news, social media, not even a CADOR report. It’s not a conspiracy, I believe the answer is actually quite simple. Northstar Air is crashing airplanes so frequently it’s not seen as newsworthy anymore. lol

[Dry Guy]

Please make a thread about the North Star PC12 crash then. I'm interested. I agree this Pelmet person has kind of ruined the accident forum. Every incident should have its own thread with a descriptive title and the date. I don't think it's a conspiracy, people just don't know how to use the internet.

[pelmet]

Please make a thread about the North Star PC12 crash then. I'm interested. I agree this Pelmet person has kind of ruined the accident forum. Every incident should have its own thread with a descriptive title and the date. I don't think it's a conspiracy, people just don't know how to use the internet.

Seeing as you brought it up. The intention of the threads was so that each incident would not have its own thread as there are hundreds of them which would be flooding the forum. In addition, if someone is interested in a certain subject, such as taildragger accidents or floatplane accidents, then they can very quickly access a lot of incidents on that subject instead of having to spend a large amount of time figuring out which accidents are applicable.

If you want a particular thread, such as for a Northstar Pilatus, then start it up yourself.

Be happy to see you leave this ruined forum, once you give us your expertise on how to 'USE' the internet

[Canoehead]

Final report is out.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... o0122.html

[pelmet]

Selected reverse at 100 feet above the airport. Not too bright. Actually....downright dangerous.