ACA starting position

[hithere]

Opener_Document_ENG.pdf

(546.02 KiB) Downloaded 2216 times

[hsilgnepilot]

Great document. Thanks for posting.

Good luck.

[TFTMB heavy]

Who's downloading a PDF in a forum, embed that please.

[hithere]

Who's downloading a PDF in a forum, embed that please.

It’s friggin 15 pages long ffs. So no, I won’t embed it. You can search my posts, I’m neither a troll nor a nutjob so if you still don’t want to download it here, find it elsewhere

[kiaszceski]

When will the strike be allowed as per the collective agreement?

[rudder]

When will the strike be allowed as per the collective agreement?

Not the CBA. The Canada Labour Code.

Click starts running after Notice of Dispute filed by one of the parties (impasse in collective bargaining).

https://crpeg.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/ ... rocess.pdf

[CaptDukeNukem]

Great post. Thanks for the update. Wish you guys the best to get that world class contract. Good things coming your way. Stay strong

[loose]

If AC ALpadoesn’t get this sorted out this time around we’re all fcked! Every pilot everywhere. You get it right you’ll open a floodgate of times never seen before in Canadian aviation.

[HFNav]

Opener_Document_ENG.pdf

Nice to see AC pilots going for 100% deadhead pay, and first class deadheads for all pilots
Relief pilots, first officers and captains shouldn't be treated any different when it comes to working conditions. They are all the same crew flying an aircraft.

Thumbs up on flight delay pay and flight cancellation pay.
Pilots should get straight time 1:1 if the ground crews are slow, the company sends them to another aircraft, if the airport bag belts malfunction, if other workers go on strike preventing a departure, if they can't find a replacement crew member, weather delays, de-icing delays and other airport issues.

Pilots show up ready to fly, not to sit around unpaid accomodating other company or airport inefficiencies.


Nice progress for commuters, company paid airport and security fees. Company paid hotels.
Would be nice to secure reserved seating for commuters on company aircraft and jazz, so they don't have to wait around at the airport on standby for multiple flights.

[HFNav]

Some interesting ones from “End of 2023 Salary Survey” on airlinepilotcentral.

“ENVOY
25 YEAR LCA
TOTAL $602k {includes $5k per Diem, $8k profit share,$40k bonus}
Worked 92 days, no weekends, no Holidays, 5 weeks vacation, 15 weeks with DTS.
$217 HR.
LCA override 100% for $435 HR almost every HR training
All OT worked at 300% with %100 override for OE
Commuter with positive space to and from
$6543 average per day worked
Maxed out 401k with company and personal contributions.”

$602k US or $800k Canadian for a regional captain

Envoy paying overtime at 300%

Positive space commuter.



This post has Envoy FO at +$200k by year 2, and a $100k signing bonus
viewtopic.php?t=204944



Posted Aggregated US regional payscales posted

viewtopic.php?t=207891

[alkaseltzer]

Opener_Document_ENG.pdf

Nice to see AC pilots going for 100% deadhead pay, and first class deadheads for all pilots
Relief pilots, first officers and captains shouldn't be treated any different when it comes to working conditions. They are all the same crew flying an aircraft.

Thumbs up on flight delay pay and flight cancellation pay.
Pilots should get straight time 1:1 if the ground crews are slow, the company sends them to another aircraft, if the airport bag belts malfunction, if other workers go on strike preventing a departure, if they can't find a replacement crew member, weather delays, de-icing delays and other airport issues.

Pilots show up ready to fly, not to sit around unpaid accomodating other company or airport inefficiencies.


Nice progress for commuters, company paid airport and security fees. Company paid hotels.
Would be nice to secure reserved seating for commuters on company aircraft and jazz, so they don't have to wait around at the airport on standby for multiple flights.

"Nice to see"..."Nice progress"...please do mention these in your future Air Canada interview.

[braaap Braap]

Some interesting ones from “End of 2023 Salary Survey” on airlinepilotcentral.

“ENVOY
25 YEAR LCA
TOTAL $602k {includes $5k per Diem, $8k profit share,$40k bonus}
Worked 92 days, no weekends, no Holidays, 5 weeks vacation, 15 weeks with DTS.
$217 HR.
LCA override 100% for $435 HR almost every HR training
All OT worked at 300% with %100 override for OE
Commuter with positive space to and from
$6543 average per day worked
Maxed out 401k with company and personal contributions.”

$602k US or $800k Canadian for a regional captain

Envoy paying overtime at 300%

Positive space commuter.



This post has Envoy FO at +$200k by year 2, and a $100k signing bonus
viewtopic.php?t=204944



Posted Aggregated US regional payscales posted

viewtopic.php?t=207891

And its wild that not 4-5 years ago regionals were just beginning to raise their rates to 50-75K/year and people were talking about how unviable the regional model would become and how all the regionals would collapse and everyone would lose their jobs.

[ShillBill]

Some interesting ones from “End of 2023 Salary Survey” on airlinepilotcentral.

“ENVOY
25 YEAR LCA
TOTAL $602k {includes $5k per Diem, $8k profit share,$40k bonus}
Worked 92 days, no weekends, no Holidays, 5 weeks vacation, 15 weeks with DTS.
$217 HR.
LCA override 100% for $435 HR almost every HR training
All OT worked at 300% with %100 override for OE
Commuter with positive space to and from
$6543 average per day worked
Maxed out 401k with company and personal contributions.”

$602k US or $800k Canadian for a regional captain

Envoy paying overtime at 300%

Positive space commuter.



This post has Envoy FO at +$200k by year 2, and a $100k signing bonus
viewtopic.php?t=204944



Posted Aggregated US regional payscales posted

viewtopic.php?t=207891

And its wild that not 4-5 years ago regionals were just beginning to raise their rates to 50-75K/year and people were talking about how unviable the regional model would become and how all the regionals would collapse and everyone would lose their jobs.

The shhiilllss going to try...

Fortunately down south they figured it out

The pilots of Canuckistan still have some work to do

[alkaseltzer]

$602k US or $800k Canadian for a regional captain

Envoy paying overtime at 300%

Positive space commuter.



This post has Envoy FO at +$200k by year 2, and a $100k signing bonus
viewtopic.php?t=204944



Posted Aggregated US regional payscales posted

viewtopic.php?t=207891

And its wild that not 4-5 years ago regionals were just beginning to raise their rates to 50-75K/year and people were talking about how unviable the regional model would become and how all the regionals would collapse and everyone would lose their jobs.

The shhiilllss going to try...

Fortunately down south they figured it out

The pilots of Canuckistan still have some work to do

Where's the Guatemalan migrant line? I might fit in.

[co-joe]

When will the strike be allowed as per the collective agreement?

Not the CBA. The Canada Labour Code.

Click starts running after Notice of Dispute filed by one of the parties (impasse in collective bargaining).

https://crpeg.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/ ... rocess.pdf

Where are we as of today on that line? "We"/ you, sorry, we're all kind of along for the ride, 100% support from me...

[bob99]

That process hasn't started yet. Thanks to acpa, a complete overhaul of the contract needs to be done. This won't be a quick process, but both sides are meeting frequently and actively engaged in continued negotiations.

[Army of one]

Thanks to acpa, a complete overhaul of the contract needs to be done. This won't be a quick process, but both sides are meeting frequently and actively engaged in continued negotiations.

Ahhh, well more accurately;

Thanks to an overwhelming majority of Air Canada pilots, who from since around 1998, have regularly voted for dogshit WAWCON and lame CA language, along with similarly supporting a Master Executive Council, who consistently and shamelessly served up the dogshit WAWCON, to the pilots, who ate it up, and democratically enshrined same.

Let’s just be upfront about calling Spades, Spades.

I also doubt that good faith negotiations are currently underway. I believe stall tactics are being actively engaged and that enough Air Canada pilots are knowingly and deliberately, some naively, assisting in the process of delaying any real, good faith bargaining.

Still far too many internal problems within this pilot group.

[HFNav]

American Airlines’ regional carrier offers pilots triple pay to pick up trips in July

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/27/america ... trips.html#




Is triple pay an idea?

Pilots who get called on days off, for flying on holidays when most people are with family or late night red eyes.

Pilots who want the extra pay would pick up the trips, allowing those who want the holidays or July to have time off.

There should be triple pay incentives for less desirable flying. Not 50% for a draft or G day.

Night pay should be 2xDay rate, not 1.3.

[billybgone345]

American Airlines’ regional carrier offers pilots triple pay to pick up trips in July

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/27/america ... trips.html#




Is triple pay an idea?

Pilots who get called on days off, for flying on holidays when most people are with family or late night red eyes.

Pilots who want the extra pay would pick up the trips, allowing those who want the holidays or July to have time off.

There should be triple pay incentives for less desirable flying. Not 50% for a draft or G day.

Night pay should be 2xDay rate, not 1.3.

Why would Management agree to the higher costs when you have bad apples begging crew sched to work for straight time/1.5x let alone triple time! There's enough guys drooling, especially in the WB, and they are scrambling over each other for a thought of picking up a Brisbane or Dubai

[bcflyer]

American Airlines’ regional carrier offers pilots triple pay to pick up trips in July

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/27/america ... trips.html#




Is triple pay an idea?

Pilots who get called on days off, for flying on holidays when most people are with family or late night red eyes.

Pilots who want the extra pay would pick up the trips, allowing those who want the holidays or July to have time off.

There should be triple pay incentives for less desirable flying. Not 50% for a draft or G day.

Night pay should be 2xDay rate, not 1.3.

Why would Management agree to the higher costs when you have bad apples begging crew sched to work for straight time/1.5x let alone triple time! There's enough guys drooling, especially in the WB, and they are scrambling over each other for a thought of picking up a Brisbane or Dubai

Sad but true. Air Canada pilots are well know for screwing over their co-workers.

[Janitroll]

American Airlines’ regional carrier offers pilots triple pay to pick up trips in July

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/27/america ... trips.html#




Is triple pay an idea?

Pilots who get called on days off, for flying on holidays when most people are with family or late night red eyes.

Pilots who want the extra pay would pick up the trips, allowing those who want the holidays or July to have time off.

There should be triple pay incentives for less desirable flying. Not 50% for a draft or G day.

Night pay should be 2xDay rate, not 1.3.

Air Wisconsin

"Premium Pay
Additional flying is available at up to 300% with more opportunities for Schedule Disruption/ Reschedule pay"

PSA Air

"Line Check Airman receive a 200% pay credit"
"Flow at 5 years or receive top-of-scale pay"

"$200,000! Qualified Experienced Captains who accept an offer by Feb. 29 and start class by Mar. 31 earn limited time bonuses!"

"121 Longevity Match that rewards you for your experience. Pilots with previous 121 experience can count their years of service towards pay, vacation and retirement benefits at PSA"

Piedmont

"Pilots who do not flow after completing five full years of service will move to top of scale Captain pay ($213 per hour)"

[Inverted2]

We are getting so hosed. Regional pilots there are making more than wide body pilots here. Plus paid commuting and fewer taxes.

[braaap Braap]

Many of these places used to pay less than Canadian Regionals before the 1,500 hr rule. And let’s stop pretending those places are shining examples of good places to work. We’re all googly eyed at the $$ but does anyone have any real experience with what the US regional scene is like? Whipsaw and instability left and right (Expressjet, Commutair, Compass, etc)

[thepoors]

Many of these places used to pay less than Canadian Regionals before the 1,500 hr rule. And let’s stop pretending those places are shining examples of good places to work. We’re all googly eyed at the $$ but does anyone have any real experience with what the US regional scene is like? Whipsaw and instability left and right (Expressjet, Commutair, Compass, etc)

Well seeing as they have proper commuting policies, more vacation, higher training pay, and overall compensation that puts us to shame.. I'd say they're examples of far better places to work than AC.

[Janitroll]

Many of these places used to pay less than Canadian Regionals before the 1,500 hr rule. And let’s stop pretending those places are shining examples of good places to work. We’re all googly eyed at the $$ but does anyone have any real experience with what the US regional scene is like? Whipsaw and instability left and right (Expressjet, Commutair, Compass, etc)

At US regional, if you don’t like the job you can go to the next company. Your pay scale related to your experience, so you don’t start from the bottom.

If you were a 2 year FO at ALPA’s PAL in eastern Canada, with 1500 hours of time flying for PAL, and you were sick of PAL and wanted to go to Jazz
You’d still have to pay out $10k of the $26k PAL bond to leave Jazz, you’d start at Jazz bottom of scale pay for new hire pilots $60k.

If you were in the US & went to PSA Air, place 1500 hours and 2 years in the PSA pay calculator, with no referrals

https://psaairlines.com/pilot-wage-calculator/
Year 1 pay - $248,790 US - $335k Canadian - to fly a regional jet - no major airline
Year 2 pay - $320,171
Year 3 pay - $327,461
Year 4 pay - $341,906 US - $460k Canadian

& the calculator is dated, the pay rates have gone up since it was placed online

In Canada you pay out the $10k bond start at $60k, net $50k.
In the US $335k – %650 higher

On top of pay, your vacation and benefits are linked to your years at your previous carrier. You get more vacation time, instead of starting at entry level.
100% deadhead pay

First class deadheads
4 commuter hotels a month paid
Reserved commuter seating, space available highest class, not standby
300 Percent Pay Incentive for open time
https://www.flyingmag.com/envoy-air-off ... incentive/


AC CBA
Include contract lines which have 200 - 300% higher pay rates for extra work, flying outside schedule, picking up open time
Overtime at %200 not %150, %300 during holiday times
100% deadhead pay, including the time waiting in security lines and to board
100% pay for delays, company delays, airport delays, weather delays, ATC delays
100% pay for all duty time

Stop flat pay, AC pilots still defend the flat pay

Stop signing bonds at ALPA.
PAL -$26k bond, who signs this? Undercutting Jazz and AC flying.

$31k bond at Pacific Coastal to fly Encore routes with the WestJet tail & brand - and Encore pilots wonder why Encore's shrinking size?
Undercutting Encore, based on pilots who are willing to sign $31k multi year bonds which prevent them from moving for better working conditions, allowing Pacific Coastal to remain with lower working conditions, salary & bonds