External E2 hire and Seniority

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[PropDog]

Hi friends,

I have a few seniority related questions for you all.

1. It's my understanding that an external hire on the E2 will have a lower seniority than an existing Porter pilot on the Q400 (and rightfully so). Once that person is hired on the E2, would any pilot hired on the Q400 after the E2 pilot's DOH have a lower seniority number?

2. With new bases on the horizon, is it safe to assume that like most Canadian airlines, YYZ will become one of the least desirable bases? I actually like it here and I'm trying to see the likelihood of more senior pilots leaving YYZ for another base.

Lastly, this one isn't a question but more of a request, would any of you be willing to send (or pm) me the matrix/requirements for an E2 First Officer to upgrade from within the company?

Many thanks

It’s a single list based on DOH. The only Q400 pilots with a better seniority number than you will be the ones hired before your date of hire.

For the YYZ base that’s only speculation. A lot of the pilots who transferred are from the Toronto base to begin with and won’t leave. Some will leave for Ottawa, Halifax, Montreal or what have you but a lot of senior pilots in those bases are waiting for the base to actually open before transferring.

Currently there are no FO upgrades because there is no upgrade program. The only E2 captains are external hire or Q transfers

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Edited

[PropDog]

Hi friends,

I have a few seniority related questions for you all.

1. It's my understanding that an external hire on the E2 will have a lower seniority than an existing Porter pilot on the Q400 (and rightfully so). Once that person is hired on the E2, would any pilot hired on the Q400 after the E2 pilot's DOH have a lower seniority number?

2. With new bases on the horizon, is it safe to assume that like most Canadian airlines, YYZ will become one of the least desirable bases? I actually like it here and I'm trying to see the likelihood of more senior pilots leaving YYZ for another base.

Lastly, this one isn't a question but more of a request, would any of you be willing to send (or pm) me the matrix/requirements for an E2 First Officer to upgrade from within the company?

Many thanks

It’s a single list based on DOH. The only Q400 pilots with a better seniority number than you will be the ones hired before your date of hire.

For the YYZ base that’s only speculation. A lot of the pilots who transferred are from the Toronto base to begin with and won’t leave. Some will leave for Ottawa, Halifax, Montreal or what have you but a lot of senior pilots in those bases are waiting for the base to actually open before transferring.

Currently there are no FO upgrades because there is no upgrade program. The only E2 captains are external hire or Q transfers

Any info on when an upgrade program would be implemented?

Unfortunately not but I doubt it will be before too long. Theyre only committed to flowing 3 Q400 pilots per month, the rest are filled by captains off the street. When the demand for pilots supersedes what’s available from external hire captains they will most likely upgrade FOs.
They don’t say much, for all we know the upgrade program is submitted and awaiting approval

[Upgradeable]

Edited

[PropDog]

Hi friends,

I have a few seniority related questions for you all.

1. It's my understanding that an external hire on the E2 will have a lower seniority than an existing Porter pilot on the Q400 (and rightfully so). Once that person is hired on the E2, would any pilot hired on the Q400 after the E2 pilot's DOH have a lower seniority number?

2. With new bases on the horizon, is it safe to assume that like most Canadian airlines, YYZ will become one of the least desirable bases? I actually like it here and I'm trying to see the likelihood of more senior pilots leaving YYZ for another base.

Lastly, this one isn't a question but more of a request, would any of you be willing to send (or pm) me the matrix/requirements for an E2 First Officer to upgrade from within the company?

Many thanks

As for the upgrade matrix, the lowest combination on the table is 3000 TT with 1500 on an E jet either the 170/175/190 or 195 E1 or E2

Next you’re looking most likely at 4500 TT with 500 on an E jet.

The other matrix criteria require you to have either jet time, PIC time on an MTOW >44000 or a transport category jet.

[PropDog]

Any info on when an upgrade program would be implemented?

Unfortunately not but I doubt it will be before too long. Theyre only committed to flowing 3 Q400 pilots per month, the rest are filled by captains off the street. When the demand for pilots supersedes what’s available from external hire captains they will most likely upgrade FOs.
They don’t say much, for all we know the upgrade program is submitted and awaiting approval

Alright thanks Prop! Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year

Anytime! Same to you!

[fliter]

1. Yes, anyone hired after you will have lower seniority regardless of which type they are hired for. It's a single seniority list. Management has promised they'll keep it that way.

2. It's hard to know, there are too many variables. Some of the other bases will probably be more senior on average than YYZ but that's not to say there won't be senior people in YYZ either. It's all pure speculation at this point; I wouldn't count on a cushy seniority due to outstations opening up. On the other hand, company's growth implies your seniority will likely rise faster than most places, even when the trickle from the Dash is taken into account.

[braaap Braap]

I think CaptDuke posted the matrix screenshot in one of the other threads. As the Porter Pom-Pom Person, I'm sure he'll be along shortly either way

[PropDog]

I think CaptDuke posted the matrix screenshot in one of the other threads. As the Porter Pom-Pom Person, I'm sure he'll be along shortly either way

Lol Pom Pom person

[CaptDukeNukem]

I think CaptDuke posted the matrix screenshot in one of the other threads. As the Porter Pom-Pom Person, I'm sure he'll be along shortly either way

“Gimme a ‘P’! GIMME A ‘O’…..”

Yup, go work at jazz for a couple cycles and you’d be back within two shakes of a lambs tail, cheering also.

You can call me what you want life ain’t so bad. Hope you see the e2 soon, b’y.

[CaptDukeNukem]

For the OP,

Master seniority is and has always been the only number that matters. Yes some will jump from the dash over top of you, that’s a fact. But the amount of hiring needed will keep you near seniority midfield. The longer you wait, the more you’ll be playing on the B Squad.

As bases get announced, watch things move very dynamically.

Fortune favors the bold. Make your move.
Or don’t.

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[braaap Braap]

Alright gentlemen, last question: when is the next ground school date on the E2?

Next class is January 8th. Beyond that I think classes start first Monday or Tuesday of the month.

[Upgradeable]

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[braaap Braap]

I think CaptDuke posted the matrix screenshot in one of the other threads. As the Porter Pom-Pom Person, I'm sure he'll be along shortly either way

Lol Pom Pom person

2023. Would hate to get cancelled for assuming their gender.

“Gimme a ‘P’! GIMME A ‘O’…..”

Yup, go work at jazz for a couple cycles and you’d be back within two shakes of a lambs tail, cheering also.

You can call me what you want life ain’t so bad. Hope you see the e2 soon, b’y.

I mean I value your opinions and would still love to hear the specifics of how Porter and Jazz stack up.

[Chaxterium]

Alright gentlemen, last question: when is the next ground school date on the E2?

For now you can pretty much count on a new ground school class each month for the next two years at least. Twenty-four new hires each month probably at least until the last tail is delivered some time in 2027.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I think CaptDuke posted the matrix screenshot in one of the other threads. As the Porter Pom-Pom Person, I'm sure he'll be along shortly either way

Lol Pom Pom person

2023. Would hate to get cancelled for assuming their gender.

“Gimme a ‘P’! GIMME A ‘O’…..”

Yup, go work at jazz for a couple cycles and you’d be back within two shakes of a lambs tail, cheering also.

You can call me what you want life ain’t so bad. Hope you see the e2 soon, b’y.

I mean I value your opinions and would still love to hear the specifics of how Porter and Jazz stack up.

Lol. I love you too.

But I’m pretty sure I’ve complained enough about jazz. I’ll defer to the dozens of jazz pilots fresh on the line at porter to explain their experiences and opinions. I’m a broken record, skipping away at my old frustrations, which I shall continue doing at specific intervals, mainly to get Cdnavater going, cuz I love him too.

[cdnavater]

Lol Pom Pom person

2023. Would hate to get cancelled for assuming their gender.

“Gimme a ‘P’! GIMME A ‘O’…..”

Yup, go work at jazz for a couple cycles and you’d be back within two shakes of a lambs tail, cheering also.

You can call me what you want life ain’t so bad. Hope you see the e2 soon, b’y.

I mean I value your opinions and would still love to hear the specifics of how Porter and Jazz stack up.

Lol. I love you too.

But I’m pretty sure I’ve complained enough about jazz. I’ll defer to the dozens of jazz pilots fresh on the line at porter to explain their experiences and opinions. I’m a broken record, skipping away at my old frustrations, which I shall continue doing at specific intervals, mainly to get Cdnavater going, cuz I love him too.

Lol, love you too:)
Porter is definitely doing things right, I use them for my commute and the last few flight have been nearly full. I also like the no middle seat, can’t partake in the free beer as RJP but the passengers seem pleasantly surprised and enjoy it.
I hope things keep going and wish you all success, all of us really!
I think 2024 is going to be a year of big announcements, Jazz will have to sort out the fleet for 2025, our current fleet guarantee that we have expires and even though we can’t staff the fleet now, AC still pays for it. Will they pay us more or let us continue to have staffing issues?
I’m not sure but Porter will likely need to option the final 25 of the order book, that will signal the plan is succeeding, what’s after that for Porter, where do you go after you have 100 narrowbody aircraft, overseas?
This is where I’m getting my merger/purchase idea from, an established carrier that does this would likely work better than what WJ did, clearly didn’t work.
Anyhow, wishing everyone a prosperous 2024 and on!

[jimmy13]

Wondering if anyone has any recent info on how E2 Capt upgrades are going for E2 FO’s. Specifically if someone higher-time were to join with over 5000 hrs and jet time would they be looking at a quick upgrade or are they now behind a long list of folks who meet the upgrade requirements and who have more seniority?

Thanks,

[yowflyer23]

How long would the wait be to hold a YOW base on the E2 as a new joiner?

[cjp]

Wondering if anyone has any recent info on how E2 Capt upgrades are going for E2 FO’s. Specifically if someone higher-time were to join with over 5000 hrs and jet time would they be looking at a quick upgrade or are they now behind a long list of folks who meet the upgrade requirements and who have more seniority?

Thanks,

It's going quick, quicker than I thought it would when I heard that they were commencing an upgrade program.

It's a combination of experience, seniority and luck of the base. Vancouver is very junior, while Toronto tends to fall senior.

From what I can tell except for Dash to E2 Captains, most upgrades from external candidates are within 14 months of time on property, who exceed the matrix.

I would expect that to be a moving target based on operational requirements.

[flyinhigh]

How long would the wait be to hold a YOW base on the E2 as a new joiner?

While folks in YOW tend to be senior, they have openly said we can’t get people to YOW. Me thinks you could get YOW fairly quick.

[Babar350]

Why are all posts from OP being “edited”?

[C-GGGQ]

How long would the wait be to hold a YOW base on the E2 as a new joiner?

I was October class. We all just finished line indoc in January and ever person who wanted a base transfer has their desired base at this point