Helicopter hours towards regional (Encore / Jazz)?

[careerpilot?]

Good morning all,

I haven't posted on or visited these forums in ages - Some years ago I posted as I was considering a career change from Army to commercial pilot. Thankfully my luck was good, and I was successful in transferring to the RCAF as a pilot. I currently fly helicopters (CH146, or B412 in civilian terms).

I'm approaching my 25 year pension (2.5 years to go), and am starting to look towards the next bound. What I would really like to do is fly fixed wing airline.

So my main question: How relevant will helicopter hours (multi engine turbine) be towards hiring requirements for Encore / Jazz?

For some background, by hiring time I will have over 2000hrs of Multi crew, multi engine turbine helicopter (approx 1500 PIC).

I already have my CPL(H) and PPL(A) with multi rating (just over 200hrs FW TT now), and will have Group 4 IFR once I write the INRAT.

My plan is to then do what conversion training is necessary to acquire CPL(A) and Group 1 IFR, using as many credits from DND and my previous FW as possible. Once I have these ratings, I would expect to be around 2500hrs total time, but low fixed wing - probably in the vicinity of 300hrs, 100 PIC.

Using Encore as an example (I'd like to be Calgary based if able), I would technically meet the 750TT, 100 FW PIC requirements, assuming helo time would be counted, even if at half time.

Does anyone have any insight into how the regionals would count the helo time? Is it worth full time, half time, nothing? Understanding the industry is very fluid and things will change in 2.5 years, if you were looking at this today, would this be a competitive application? Or should I be looking towards an instructor rating, or smaller goals for a few years, to build up more FW time?


Thanks all in advance, clear skies!

[Roundel Randy]

It might be worth it to try to get on the Harvard in Moose Jaw for the remainder of your contract. Generally, airlines tend to focus mostly on fixed-wing time. I think you could probably still get on a regional with what you have for fixed-wing provided you get your CPL(A) and Group 1. However, a couple of years in the Jaw and 500 more fixed-wing hours would probably help a lot.

[careerpilot?]

It might be worth it to try to get on the Harvard in Moose Jaw for the remainder of your contract. Generally, airlines tend to focus mostly on fixed-wing time. I think you could probably still get on a regional with what you have for fixed-wing provided you get your CPL(A) and Group 1. However, a couple of years in the Jaw and 500 more fixed-wing hours would probably help a lot.

Thanks for your response!

Going to the jaw was a COA a few years ago, but for mostly family reasons we chose to stay where we are, and will be here until I finish out my time.

I have considered that I might need to spend a year or two building time in another FW role, with the pension to fall back on it would be doable. Just trying to see what my chances are to jump right into a regional or not.

Thanks!

[Big Pistons Forever]

With a CPL(A) and a group 1 IFR Jazz would probably hire you right now. If you are serious about making the move I would suggest going sooner rather than later as the pilot market is better than it has been in 50 years.

Are you on a CE or IPS?. If you have to go to 25 YOS to lock in the pension then it is a no brainer but if you are eligible for a pension now you might want to consider bailing early. The good news is the RCAF is going to desperate for pilots for the foreseeable future so going back will always be an option if the FW civie route doesn’t work out.

[careerpilot?]

With a CPL(A) and a group 1 IFR Jazz would probably hire you right now. If you are serious about making the move I would suggest going sooner rather than later as the pilot market is better than it has been in 50 years.

Are you on a CE or IPS?. If you have to go to 25 YOS to lock in the pension then it is a no brainer but if you are eligible for a pension now you might want to consider bailing early. The good news is the RCAF is going to desperate for pilots for the foreseeable future so going back will always be an option if the FW civie route doesn’t work out.

That’s encouraging, thanks for the info.

Believe me when I say, if I was eligible for pension I’d be gone now! I had to sign for 25 when I remustered, so as you say it’s a no brainer to wait out the pension. I have hopes the industry will still be hurting for pilots (maybe more so) by 2026. And agreed, can’t burn all the bridges - the fallback of going reserve and double dipping is always nice to have.

[CaptDukeNukem]

You’ll be fine

People with service time should get their resumes for sure glanced over! And in this day and age, any experience is good experience, and I’m sure you got a few good stories.

And besides, isn’t a heli just a vertical mounted turboprop anyway!?

Good luck in your endeavors! I’m sure a few airlines will take a nibble at your resume once you get it all sorted.

[careerpilot?]

You’ll be fine

People with service time should get their resumes for sure glanced over! And in this day and age, any experience is good experience, and I’m sure you got a few good stories.

And besides, isn’t a heli just a vertical mounted turboprop anyway!?

Good luck in your endeavors! I’m sure a few airlines will take a nibble at your resume once you get it all sorted.

Cheers, thanks!

[careerpilot?]

A follow on question for you guys: Would holding an ATPL(H) provide any additional weight? I haven't considered writing my ATPLs as there are no credits from ATPL(H) to ATPL(A), where CPL(H) does provide credits towards CPL(A).

Understanding I won't meet the ATPL(A) minimums yet, would holding one for helos bring any additional resume visibility to the table?

[Mône]

I have flown with new-hires helicopter pilots doing line indoc at Jazz on multiple occasions. I don't beleive any of them had fixed wing hours beyond what is required for licencing. To quote a chief pilot, "once at the interview, they just have to explain and defend their experience".

[Me262]

How do you plan getting your 250 FW PiC required for ATPL(A) once you for for jazz/encore?

[careerpilot?]

I have flown with new-hires helicopter pilots doing line indoc at Jazz on multiple occasions. I don't beleive any of them had fixed wing hours beyond what is required for licencing. To quote a chief pilot, "once at the interview, they just have to explain and defend their experience".

Cheers, thx.

How do you plan getting your 250 FW PiC required for ATPL(A) once you for for jazz/encore?

Open to advice, but I believe Encore supports the PICUS for up to 100 of those hours. I see a possible delta of 50hrs there... But that'll all depend on how many I have once I'm finished my CPL(A). I already have almost 100hrs from bombing around with my PPL...

[Me262]

I have flown with new-hires helicopter pilots doing line indoc at Jazz on multiple occasions. I don't beleive any of them had fixed wing hours beyond what is required for licencing. To quote a chief pilot, "once at the interview, they just have to explain and defend their experience".

Cheers, thx.

How do you plan getting your 250 FW PiC required for ATPL(A) once you for for jazz/encore?

Open to advice, but I believe Encore supports the PICUS for up to 100 of those hours. I see a possible delta of 50hrs there... But that'll all depend on how many I have once I'm finished my CPL(A). I already have almost 100hrs from bombing around with my PPL...

Could you not do the helicopter to FW conversion with the thousands hrs helo from the military? That only requires 65 hrs FW for CPL(A)

[SamuelTheKitty]

A follow on question for you guys: Would holding an ATPL(H) provide any additional weight? I haven't considered writing my ATPLs as there are no credits from ATPL(H) to ATPL(A), where CPL(H) does provide credits towards CPL(A).

Understanding I won't meet the ATPL(A) minimums yet, would holding one for helos bring any additional resume visibility to the table?

I wouldn't leave your ATPL-H on the table - you never know when it might be useful. You'll have two years from the validity date on your last CF456 your IRT to satisfy the Skill requirement. The remainder is an exam/paperwork exercise.

[careerpilot?]

I wouldn't leave your ATPL-H on the table - you never know when it might be useful. You'll have two years from the validity date on your last CF456 your IRT to satisfy the Skill requirement. The remainder is an exam/paperwork exercise.

The issue we're running into (only a problem in the last year) is TC has decided the B412 is type certificated as a single pilot machine, even though most operators utilize it 2 crew. Therefore they won't issue an ATP off of a B412 type rating, you need to be type rated in an "actual" multi-crew aircraft. Stupid, I know, as we fly it multi crew 99.9% of the time. So I wouldn't technically have an ATPL(H) anyway, unless I got employment that would provide me with a PPC on a multi crew helo within 2 years of having written the HAMRA/HARON. I don't think this fight is over, as TC has been waiving this for civilian companies who operate the aircraft multi-crew and there are several appeals in right now to have this apply to the RCAF. I'll consider writing if this ends up getting resolved, but for now it would likely be wasted effort.

Could you not do the helicopter to FW conversion with the thousands hrs helo from the military? That only requires 65 hrs FW for CPL(A)

That's the plan for CPL - I've already written the exam to convert my military ratings to CPL(H), I'll be using that as credits for my CPL(A).

AFAIK unfortunately there's no credits that can be applied from ATPL(H) for ATPL(A), though my helo hours should be countable towards 600 of the 1500 total hrs, 70 of the 100 night hours, all of the X-Ctry and 35 of the IF hours. Though I don't believe I need to hold an ATPL(H) to utilize those hours.

The hardest hole to close is going to be the remaining PIC in aeroplanes. If I do end up managing to go straight to 705, I may need to do a few $500 hamburger flights to close the gap.

[Me262]

The hardest hole to close is going to be the remaining PIC in aeroplanes. If I do end up managing to go straight to 705, I may need to do a few 500hr hamburger flights to close the gap.

Are you thinking of doing some side flying while at a 705? What route would you go? Instructing in your free time? Not sure what else is there to do as part time in your days off from the 705 operator?

Renting a plane for 200hrs seems very expensive.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you have a few years to go to lock in your pension you could always volunteer for a Moose Jaw Fixed Wing tour. They seem to always be begging for Instructors and you will leave with all the time you need.

[careerpilot?]

Renting a plane for 200hrs seems very expensive.

I already have a PPL with close to 100hrs FW PIC from flying recreationally for the last 12 or so years, and considering Encore allows 200hrs to be credited for 100hrs PICUS, the gap may not be that big. I can probably even start renting once or twice a month now to start spreading out the remaining 50 or so hours. At least that's the theory!

If you have a few years to go to lock in your pension you could always volunteer for a Moose Jaw Fixed Wing tour. They seem to always be begging for Instructors and you will leave with all the time you need.

For family reasons we've decided to stay in Edmonton. We talked about Moose Jaw or Portage, but my wife is tired of moving. Can't say I blame her! I am only 2.5yrs to pension, and definitely waiting out for that.

[SamuelTheKitty]

I wouldn't leave your ATPL-H on the table - you never know when it might be useful. You'll have two years from the validity date on your last CF456 your IRT to satisfy the Skill requirement. The remainder is an exam/paperwork exercise.

The issue we're running into (only a problem in the last year) is TC has decided the B412 is type certificated as a single pilot machine, even though most operators utilize it 2 crew.

When was the last time you investigated this? I know a couple guys in Gagetown who bumped into this problem initially, but managed to sort it out.

[careerpilot?]

I wouldn't leave your ATPL-H on the table - you never know when it might be useful. You'll have two years from the validity date on your last CF456 your IRT to satisfy the Skill requirement. The remainder is an exam/paperwork exercise.

The issue we're running into (only a problem in the last year) is TC has decided the B412 is type certificated as a single pilot machine, even though most operators utilize it 2 crew.

When was the last time you investigated this? I know a couple guys in Gagetown who bumped into this problem initially, but managed to sort it out.

Very recently. It sounds like the policy is also not being applied equally across all regions. Prairie and Northern region is holding firm to their interpretation, but I'm hearing other regions are issuing the ATP... I'm just going to wait until the dust settles.