A321 v A330

[runway29]

Hey guys!

How do you compare both fleet types in terms of QoL (schedules, YYZ/YUL, etc.) and upgrades? Thank you!

[dontcallmeshirley]

AFAIK, pilots are cross-trained on both aircraft, so the best way to answer your question:

A321 QoL === A330 QoL

[CaptDukeNukem]

Seems extremely expensive to give every pilot two type ratings.

[twa22]

Seems extremely expensive to give every pilot two type ratings.

it's a MFF (mixed fleet flying) program which is approved by TC, but as far as implementing it, I don't think it's happened yet, but those at TS can correct me.

One of the pages from the pdf below mentions the approval

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 9pZGZtcfbn

The practice of MFF is common in other countries around the world, with some types being just a differences course vs two full type ratings

[hsilgnepilot]

As a general consensus, 321 is more desirable. More variety in flying, larger fleet and larger pilot group typically equal better QOL. Some people prefer the 330, but there’s much less diverse flying - especially in winters. This could change as the fleet grows a little bit in the coming months, and as some 321 are temporarily taken offline due to the PW engine overhauls.

It’s fairly straight forward to transfer between types when bids happen. As long as you have 150 hours on either type, you’re eligible to bid the other type - which consists of a CCQ program consisting of 4 sim sessions and a PPC, so you don’t need to do a full initial.

That being said, about 10-15 F/O have been forced in reverse seniority to transfer from 321 to 330 for the summer bid. Also, there’s no guarantee they’ll be able to move back to 321 on the next bid for winter 2025 flying. So that alone should speak to which is the more desirable fleet…

Personally I’m not too keen myself on doing 10-11 hour hauls ATH-YYZ with only two drivers, so I’ll stick to the 321 - at least until we can secure augment drivers to Europe.

[DanWEC]

I'm bored. Like really bored, so here goes

So, there's no MFF yet, and unknown if it'll proceed. It needs to come with a generous kitty if it does.

I've flown both, and I have a definite preference, Pros and cons from my perspective; (As a caveat, some of my info on pairings is several years old.)

Both birds on the coffee end are obviously almost identical except the 330 has a much larger cockpit, and a nice big buffer of a galley with a washroom. You often won't see a passenger the entire flight. The 321 is still exceptionally quiet and roomy by NB standards compared to say, the 73.
330 flies higher, smoother, almost always above the weather. Workload is lower.
330 has less variety in the routes as they're established, high yield pairs. Europe in the summer, Carrib in the winter. 1-5 day pairings avail for all. Can be monotonous.
You generally work less 1-3 days on the 330. The sectors can be a little longer, but the reduction in working days is mostly due to less optimization of a much smaller fleet and roster compared to the 321, so your credits can be lower- but you still get MMG obv.
The choice between the two is purely company requirement, not seniority, until bids come out. That said the 330 movement is glacial. The flying and lifestyle is easier, but your seniority will stay very low for a long time.
By the time you're at 50% seniority on the 321 and can really start dictating your schedule you might have only moved a few spots up from the bottom of the 330 if at all. This is due to fleet growth being all 321- but there will be changes on the WB side in the next few years and some flying is shifting over to accommodate the Pratt recall.

The 330 will really only do a few routes that are slightly longer- an hour or two. The flying is so similar between the two the seniority/reserve advantage might well overshadow the airplane advantage.

Personally, I absolutely love baking for a couple days on the rooftop pool in ATH gazing at the Acropolis before hitting the streets in the evening, and that's just me, but- the time zone changes are a killer. Plus, the 330 won't get any new routes until they're productive and upgauge.

Either way, you'll be happy. The pros and cons are almost equal. These are fantastic problems to have. You can always switch every few years if you want, but who knows what the future brings.

[Babar350]

I'm bored. Like really bored, so here goes

So, there's no MFF yet, and unknown if it'll proceed. It needs to come with a generous kitty if it does.

I've flown both, and I have a definite preference, Pros and cons from my perspective; (As a caveat, some of my info on pairings is several years old.)

Both birds on the coffee end are obviously almost identical except the 330 has a much larger cockpit, and a nice big buffer of a galley with a washroom. You often won't see a passenger the entire flight. The 321 is still exceptionally quiet and roomy by NB standards compared to say, the 73.
330 flies higher, smoother, almost always above the weather. Workload is lower.
330 has less variety in the routes as they're established, high yield pairs. Europe in the summer, Carrib in the winter. 1-5 day pairings avail for all. Can be monotonous.
You generally work less 1-3 days on the 330. The sectors can be a little longer, but the reduction in working days is mostly due to less optimization of a much smaller fleet and roster compared to the 321, so your credits can be lower- but you still get MMG obv.
The choice between the two is purely company requirement, not seniority, until bids come out. That said the 330 movement is glacial. The flying and lifestyle is easier, but your seniority will stay very low for a long time.
By the time you're at 50% seniority on the 321 and can really start dictating your schedule you might have only moved a few spots up from the bottom of the 330 if at all. This is due to fleet growth being all 321- but there will be changes on the WB side in the next few years and some flying is shifting over to accommodate the Pratt recall.

The 330 will really only do a few routes that are slightly longer- an hour or two. The flying is so similar between the two the seniority/reserve advantage might well overshadow the airplane advantage.

Personally, I absolutely love baking for a couple days on the rooftop pool in ATH gazing at the Acropolis before hitting the streets in the evening, and that's just me, but- the time zone changes are a killer. Plus, the 330 won't get any new routes until they're productive and upgauge.

Either way, you'll be happy. The pros and cons are almost equal. These are fantastic problems to have. You can always switch every few years if you want, but who knows what the future brings.

They also started to hire directly on the 330, so it might help us that got forced on the 330...
Hopefully, the next equipment will create some movement. It's unsure if that much FO is needed on the 330 once the 321 are back from the PW mess.

[runway29]

Great responses guys, thank you

[MD11]

I'm bored. Like really bored, so here goes

So, there's no MFF yet, and unknown if it'll proceed. It needs to come with a generous kitty if it does.

I've flown both, and I have a definite preference, Pros and cons from my perspective; (As a caveat, some of my info on pairings is several years old.)

Both birds on the coffee end are obviously almost identical except the 330 has a much larger cockpit, and a nice big buffer of a galley with a washroom. You often won't see a passenger the entire flight. The 321 is still exceptionally quiet and roomy by NB standards compared to say, the 73.
330 flies higher, smoother, almost always above the weather. Workload is lower.
330 has less variety in the routes as they're established, high yield pairs. Europe in the summer, Carrib in the winter. 1-5 day pairings avail for all. Can be monotonous.
You generally work less 1-3 days on the 330. The sectors can be a little longer, but the reduction in working days is mostly due to less optimization of a much smaller fleet and roster compared to the 321, so your credits can be lower- but you still get MMG obv.
The choice between the two is purely company requirement, not seniority, until bids come out. That said the 330 movement is glacial. The flying and lifestyle is easier, but your seniority will stay very low for a long time.
By the time you're at 50% seniority on the 321 and can really start dictating your schedule you might have only moved a few spots up from the bottom of the 330 if at all. This is due to fleet growth being all 321- but there will be changes on the WB side in the next few years and some flying is shifting over to accommodate the Pratt recall.

The 330 will really only do a few routes that are slightly longer- an hour or two. The flying is so similar between the two the seniority/reserve advantage might well overshadow the airplane advantage.

Personally, I absolutely love baking for a couple days on the rooftop pool in ATH gazing at the Acropolis before hitting the streets in the evening, and that's just me, but- the time zone changes are a killer. Plus, the 330 won't get any new routes until they're productive and upgauge.

Either way, you'll be happy. The pros and cons are almost equal. These are fantastic problems to have. You can always switch every few years if you want, but who knows what the future brings.

"Good problems to have" - true that! Thanks for this info. I'm also curious about this fleet decision and have heard from friends that the A321 is the way to go if you are looking for variety. At the end of the day they may force you onto 1 or the other and the choice will be made for you.

[Eric Janson]

Seems extremely expensive to give every pilot two type ratings.

I've flown MFF A320/A330 at an Asian Flag Carrier.

Surprisingly straightforward even though the A330 is almost 3x the weight of the A320.

Cockpits are very similar as are the procedures. A330 systems are generally improved versions of the A320 systems.

It gives a company a greater amount of operational flexibility and as a Pilot flying multiple types is fun.

You do one check on each type/year.

How much training will depend on what gets approved - it's about 1/4 of a normal Type Rating.

The reason it's not done more is mostly down to issues with different payscales for different types.