24000 gal of water...
http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/index.html
How much does the CL-415 take?
Is this overkill?
D
Supertanker
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
There seems to be quite a beesnest of controversy on this one....
We just sent a 660 Thrush to NV on fire contract in the SEATs program. No comparison... there are things the SEATs can do that the Supertanker couldn't and vice versa.
I guess I'm not convinced that the big machine can be quite as effective with strip length and turnaround times - but then again, I don't know much
Anyone want to trade me some 215/415 time for some AT402 time?
LOL
Don't all come rushing to Kansas, now lol
We just sent a 660 Thrush to NV on fire contract in the SEATs program. No comparison... there are things the SEATs can do that the Supertanker couldn't and vice versa.
I guess I'm not convinced that the big machine can be quite as effective with strip length and turnaround times - but then again, I don't know much
Anyone want to trade me some 215/415 time for some AT402 time?
LOL
Don't all come rushing to Kansas, now lol
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
The CL-415 carries just over 1600 US gallons and will put a lot more water on a fire in a day than the new Super Tanker will. What a load of propoganda crap. It will be dropping its 24,000 gallons over a 25,000 line from about 600 feet at a speed of 150kts. That is what most fires need a line of retardent 5 miles long. I wonder how much will actually make it to the ground on a hot, convective day.
The Americans are yet to learn that bigger is not always better especially when it comes to intial attack. They have certainly forgot the cardinal rule in firefighting. Find them early, hit them hard and then there will never be a need for a Super Tanker that can lay 5 miles of retardent that likely won't even hit the ground.
Flybabe I will love to trade you some time but I think others would have something to say about that!!
The Americans are yet to learn that bigger is not always better especially when it comes to intial attack. They have certainly forgot the cardinal rule in firefighting. Find them early, hit them hard and then there will never be a need for a Super Tanker that can lay 5 miles of retardent that likely won't even hit the ground.
Flybabe I will love to trade you some time but I think others would have something to say about that!!
-
Driving Rain
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
- Contact:
Agreed CL Guy,
Do they say how many airports that thing can use? How long does it take to load? What kind of resources are tied up loading it?
CL-415's have routinely demonstrated the ability to lay down 42,000 gallons an hour and can keep it up for almost 4 hours. (kind of like me when I was younger) right where it's needed the most, spot fires, jumps and the head.
A small percentage of the 2% of the fires that escape intial containment could be actioned with the big stick, but it sure is a lot of money and resouces tied up in an unproven and risky venture that could be spent wisely on initial attack and improving the 98% sucess rate we enjoy.
Do they say how many airports that thing can use? How long does it take to load? What kind of resources are tied up loading it?
CL-415's have routinely demonstrated the ability to lay down 42,000 gallons an hour and can keep it up for almost 4 hours. (kind of like me when I was younger) right where it's needed the most, spot fires, jumps and the head.
A small percentage of the 2% of the fires that escape intial containment could be actioned with the big stick, but it sure is a lot of money and resouces tied up in an unproven and risky venture that could be spent wisely on initial attack and improving the 98% sucess rate we enjoy.
squawk 1276
It may take a week to load...and it may require the longest runway anywhere....and it may not be the most efficent method there is of getting the job done....BUT....I'd sure like to be sitting there with my Nikon full of film when the thing goes past on a drop! Would be a hellof a sight!!
On another note seeing as how I mentioned it on here...
The company that we leased the 660 to lost a pilot and a/c in Utah after a drop. 3rd pilot to lose his life for that company, every one of them seems to be pilot error.
Kinda sucks. I can see the heavy tanker operators using this opportunity to continue lobbying to get their machines back in the air (not that I don't think they should be there). One difference being pilot error as opposed to mechanical/structural failure. Regardless, I wish I could follow it more but the dang AAP forum is now password protected!! And I'm not a member!!
The company that we leased the 660 to lost a pilot and a/c in Utah after a drop. 3rd pilot to lose his life for that company, every one of them seems to be pilot error.
Kinda sucks. I can see the heavy tanker operators using this opportunity to continue lobbying to get their machines back in the air (not that I don't think they should be there). One difference being pilot error as opposed to mechanical/structural failure. Regardless, I wish I could follow it more but the dang AAP forum is now password protected!! And I'm not a member!!
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
-
Driving Rain
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
- Contact:
After watching the video I think it sounds a lot more practical than I initially thought. Plus all the other applications as well (oil spill containment etc.)
But it does beg the question why aren't they using P3's to contain oil spills now? Anyhow I don't think the market is for a whole ton of them. Sounds more like a Martin Mars type of thing where only 3-4 would be needed and used on a sporadic basis.
I am not in the waterbomber gang but it seems like every year there are at least a couple fires where the frantic "GET THE MARS, GET THE MARS" call goes out...
But it does beg the question why aren't they using P3's to contain oil spills now? Anyhow I don't think the market is for a whole ton of them. Sounds more like a Martin Mars type of thing where only 3-4 would be needed and used on a sporadic basis.
I am not in the waterbomber gang but it seems like every year there are at least a couple fires where the frantic "GET THE MARS, GET THE MARS" call goes out...
-
ScudRunner
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3239
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:58 am
Ok Ill admit id love to see a 47 dumping a load like that. But I have two points to make. Put on your wolly toque Im going hippy for a moment. 1. Fires are nature at work, keeping forest healthy eg. Pine Beattle flouishing in BC =fires take care of problem keep forest healthy, not to say dont control them around populated areas, and many young aviators build huge time bombing around the country side spotting fires. but you keep stamping them out all the time its just going to lead to bigger and bigger fires.
2. Evergreen is the CIA largest "transport" contractor and have been involved in some very shady deals. My conspiracy cap says their is something more to this than fighting fires, and more along the line of justifiying money pay'd to Evergreen.
2. Evergreen is the CIA largest "transport" contractor and have been involved in some very shady deals. My conspiracy cap says their is something more to this than fighting fires, and more along the line of justifiying money pay'd to Evergreen.
. you have a good point about fire being part of nature and they should be left to burn but where do you draw the line? You recomment fighting them around populated areas only but then what do you tell the owner of a tourist lodge or camp owner or a timber company that is counting on the wood in the unpopulated areas as part of his next 20 year plan to feed his hungry paper mill that employs a 1000 people.
It is fine to tout the let burn policy until one looks at all the other factors involved and you then realize it is not that simple anymore.
It is fine to tout the let burn policy until one looks at all the other factors involved and you then realize it is not that simple anymore.
