C-FLHI MIA?
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Realitychex
- Rank 7

- Posts: 555
- Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:37 pm
C-FLHI MIA?
The mystery continues...
One of the two Flair tails that went to Australia in late 2023 has been parked at MCY, (Sunshine Coast airport), since the morning of March 1st.
Whereas all previous flights were operated under Bonza's AB flight designator, C-FLHI's last sector from Gold Coast. (OOL), operated under Flair's F8 designator as Flair 8045. That would suggest it's off Bonza's books and back with Flair.
I don't see any evidence of an MRO at MCY, and even if there were, I can't see a 4 year old Max 8 requiring 40+ days of heavy maintenance.
Air Nauru have been operating a 30+ year old 112 seat 737-300, (VH-XNU) for Bonza since the 24th March.
All other Bonza tails are operating so the Air Nauru tail wasn't brought in to replace an organic Bonza tail, each of which seat 189 passengers.
Last I checked, aircraft AOG don't generate revenue, yet someone is paying / eating us$350k a month + reserves + parking expenses, to store what should be a serviceable, in demand aircraft in the weeds for reasons unknown.
I doubt it's a coincidence that Flair has been throwing a desperately needed life line to Canada Jetlines who've been operating a 174 seat A320 on behalf of Flair since 7 March. Wet leasing aircraft will be a profitable venture for Jetlines, who'll happily take their 10% margin, especially given their awful recent financial disclosures. That margin doesn't leave anything for Flair, unless one chooses to believe that Flair's margins are in excess of 10%, which, if true, would have ensured Flair would never have run into all their recent obvious financial issues.
Anyone have any insights?
One of the two Flair tails that went to Australia in late 2023 has been parked at MCY, (Sunshine Coast airport), since the morning of March 1st.
Whereas all previous flights were operated under Bonza's AB flight designator, C-FLHI's last sector from Gold Coast. (OOL), operated under Flair's F8 designator as Flair 8045. That would suggest it's off Bonza's books and back with Flair.
I don't see any evidence of an MRO at MCY, and even if there were, I can't see a 4 year old Max 8 requiring 40+ days of heavy maintenance.
Air Nauru have been operating a 30+ year old 112 seat 737-300, (VH-XNU) for Bonza since the 24th March.
All other Bonza tails are operating so the Air Nauru tail wasn't brought in to replace an organic Bonza tail, each of which seat 189 passengers.
Last I checked, aircraft AOG don't generate revenue, yet someone is paying / eating us$350k a month + reserves + parking expenses, to store what should be a serviceable, in demand aircraft in the weeds for reasons unknown.
I doubt it's a coincidence that Flair has been throwing a desperately needed life line to Canada Jetlines who've been operating a 174 seat A320 on behalf of Flair since 7 March. Wet leasing aircraft will be a profitable venture for Jetlines, who'll happily take their 10% margin, especially given their awful recent financial disclosures. That margin doesn't leave anything for Flair, unless one chooses to believe that Flair's margins are in excess of 10%, which, if true, would have ensured Flair would never have run into all their recent obvious financial issues.
Anyone have any insights?
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Realitychex
- Rank 7

- Posts: 555
- Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:37 pm
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
KordaMentha runs the ruler over Bonza as its Miami PE owner wavers
Matthew Cranston and Ayesha de Kretser
Updated Apr 18, 2024 – 5.22pm,
New York/Melbourne | Bonza’s financiers have called on restructuring advisory KordaMentha to provide them with advice about the ongoing operations of the country’s fourth-largest airline amid instability at its Miami-based private equity owner.
Bonza launched in January last year, after more than a year of planning, flying to regional destinations including Cairns, Gladstone and Albury. It is not flying to Sydney or Brisbane, although it has services to Melbourne.
The airline is not in administration, and two sources close to the matter but unauthorised to comment publicly said it would be more accurate to describe KordaMentha’s role as advisory in nature. A spokeswoman said KordaMentha had not been appointed “as financial advisors to Bonza, or in any other capacity”.
KordaMentha’s work is being led by Sebastian Hams, a restructuring partner who has worked with Ansett, Virgin Australia and the Whyalla steelworks.
A Bonza flight in Melbourne on Thursday. Some of its ultra-cheap services have proved very popular. Others are less full. Eamon Gallagher
Sources said A-Cap, a New York-headquartered insurance group, had provided a debt facility to 777 Partners, Bonza’s major shareholder, which it has since withdrawn. A-Cap had been directed by the Bermuda Monetary Authority to no longer provide finance to the airline because of complications arising from its investment in 777, they added.
A-Cap has also taken a 49 per cent stake in 777’s AIP Capital division, which was once part of the private equity firm and continues to hold most of the aircraft flown by Bonza. The other 51 per cent of AIP Capital is owned by management.
777 has been under serious strain after its own creditors, including A-Cap, pushed to take control of assets. The Justice Department in the United States is also investigating whether 777 – which owns the Genoa, Sevilla and Melbourne Victory soccer teams and is trying to buy Everton – violated money-laundering laws.
A KordaMentha spokesman declined to comment.
On Thursday, Bonza flights remained in the sky. One flight, from Toowoomba to Melbourne, was about 75 per cent full. Some of its services are less popular, although others – like that from Melbourne to Port Macquarie – have been a hit with travellers.
At Melbourne airport, Caitlin Ruke said that she had been waiting for the flight to be added before booking a trip to Port Macquarie. “It’s a direct flight from Melbourne and with a newborn child it’s pretty hard to get there otherwise,” Ms Ruke said.
Another traveller, Tony Spouse, said Bonza’s irregular schedule meant he had spent more time in Melbourne than he had wanted to, but “even with an extra night’s accommodation it was cheaper than Qantas”.
There has been growing scepticism about Bonza’s operations after the airline grounded one of its planes at the Gold Coast. A spokesman said last week that Bonza was waiting on re-certification from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority after the aircraft was permanently transferred from 777’s Canadian airline, Flair. However, aviation industry sources said missed lease payments had led to the aircraft’s grounding.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-flhi#
Tim Jordan is the chief executive of Bonza. He said 777 invested in the airline because “they could see the opportunity”. Lindsay Moller
Bonza had also wet-leased Boeing 737s from Nauru Airlines, which abruptly terminated the agreement on Monday, leaving travellers in Queensland stranded. Aircraft lessors based in Ireland have separately sued 777 over unpaid bills.
A spokeswoman for Bonza blamed delays returning the aircraft grounded on the Gold Coast for the cancellations. “Chartering an aircraft through Nauru Airlines was always temporary, and we’re grateful for the support and partnership of our mates at Nauru Airlines,” she said. “At times our schedules do not line up with their availability and unfortunately a small number of flights – seven – have been cancelled this month.”
Between them, Bonza and Regional Express, the domestic carrier better known as Rex, have 7 per cent of Australia’s domestic aviation market.
The Australian Financial Review’s Street Talk column reported last year that 777 had considered bringing in new capital partners for Bonza, placing a $100 million valuation on the airline. “Our differentiated strategy has captivated the imagination of individual customers, the community and also, potential investors,” Mr Jordan said at the time.
Matthew Cranston and Ayesha de Kretser
Updated Apr 18, 2024 – 5.22pm,
New York/Melbourne | Bonza’s financiers have called on restructuring advisory KordaMentha to provide them with advice about the ongoing operations of the country’s fourth-largest airline amid instability at its Miami-based private equity owner.
Bonza launched in January last year, after more than a year of planning, flying to regional destinations including Cairns, Gladstone and Albury. It is not flying to Sydney or Brisbane, although it has services to Melbourne.
The airline is not in administration, and two sources close to the matter but unauthorised to comment publicly said it would be more accurate to describe KordaMentha’s role as advisory in nature. A spokeswoman said KordaMentha had not been appointed “as financial advisors to Bonza, or in any other capacity”.
KordaMentha’s work is being led by Sebastian Hams, a restructuring partner who has worked with Ansett, Virgin Australia and the Whyalla steelworks.
A Bonza flight in Melbourne on Thursday. Some of its ultra-cheap services have proved very popular. Others are less full. Eamon Gallagher
Sources said A-Cap, a New York-headquartered insurance group, had provided a debt facility to 777 Partners, Bonza’s major shareholder, which it has since withdrawn. A-Cap had been directed by the Bermuda Monetary Authority to no longer provide finance to the airline because of complications arising from its investment in 777, they added.
A-Cap has also taken a 49 per cent stake in 777’s AIP Capital division, which was once part of the private equity firm and continues to hold most of the aircraft flown by Bonza. The other 51 per cent of AIP Capital is owned by management.
777 has been under serious strain after its own creditors, including A-Cap, pushed to take control of assets. The Justice Department in the United States is also investigating whether 777 – which owns the Genoa, Sevilla and Melbourne Victory soccer teams and is trying to buy Everton – violated money-laundering laws.
A KordaMentha spokesman declined to comment.
On Thursday, Bonza flights remained in the sky. One flight, from Toowoomba to Melbourne, was about 75 per cent full. Some of its services are less popular, although others – like that from Melbourne to Port Macquarie – have been a hit with travellers.
At Melbourne airport, Caitlin Ruke said that she had been waiting for the flight to be added before booking a trip to Port Macquarie. “It’s a direct flight from Melbourne and with a newborn child it’s pretty hard to get there otherwise,” Ms Ruke said.
Another traveller, Tony Spouse, said Bonza’s irregular schedule meant he had spent more time in Melbourne than he had wanted to, but “even with an extra night’s accommodation it was cheaper than Qantas”.
There has been growing scepticism about Bonza’s operations after the airline grounded one of its planes at the Gold Coast. A spokesman said last week that Bonza was waiting on re-certification from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority after the aircraft was permanently transferred from 777’s Canadian airline, Flair. However, aviation industry sources said missed lease payments had led to the aircraft’s grounding.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-flhi#
Tim Jordan is the chief executive of Bonza. He said 777 invested in the airline because “they could see the opportunity”. Lindsay Moller
Bonza had also wet-leased Boeing 737s from Nauru Airlines, which abruptly terminated the agreement on Monday, leaving travellers in Queensland stranded. Aircraft lessors based in Ireland have separately sued 777 over unpaid bills.
A spokeswoman for Bonza blamed delays returning the aircraft grounded on the Gold Coast for the cancellations. “Chartering an aircraft through Nauru Airlines was always temporary, and we’re grateful for the support and partnership of our mates at Nauru Airlines,” she said. “At times our schedules do not line up with their availability and unfortunately a small number of flights – seven – have been cancelled this month.”
Between them, Bonza and Regional Express, the domestic carrier better known as Rex, have 7 per cent of Australia’s domestic aviation market.
The Australian Financial Review’s Street Talk column reported last year that 777 had considered bringing in new capital partners for Bonza, placing a $100 million valuation on the airline. “Our differentiated strategy has captivated the imagination of individual customers, the community and also, potential investors,” Mr Jordan said at the time.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
I guess Nauru stopped doing the flying when they realized they weren’t getting paid.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
Being repatriated back to YYC tomorrow I’ve been advised.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ckout=true
Budget Australian airline Bonza, owned by 777 Partners, had its fleet repossessed by creditors and cancelled flights on Tuesday, the Australian Financial Review reported.
The airline’s Boeing Co. Max aircraft were initially purchased by 777 Partners, but the venture capital firm’s creditors this month formed a new entity to take over planes linked to 777 Partners, the newspaper said.
The carrier last week denied a newspaper report that it had appointed KordaMentha, best known as a restructuring specialist for financially stressed companies, as a financial advisor.
Miami-based 777 Partners had previously laid out plans to build a global airline portfolio to add to a sprawl of sports and aviation assets. The firm agreed to buy UK football club Everton last year, but recently asked for more time to complete the takeover.
Budget Australian airline Bonza, owned by 777 Partners, had its fleet repossessed by creditors and cancelled flights on Tuesday, the Australian Financial Review reported.
The airline’s Boeing Co. Max aircraft were initially purchased by 777 Partners, but the venture capital firm’s creditors this month formed a new entity to take over planes linked to 777 Partners, the newspaper said.
The carrier last week denied a newspaper report that it had appointed KordaMentha, best known as a restructuring specialist for financially stressed companies, as a financial advisor.
Miami-based 777 Partners had previously laid out plans to build a global airline portfolio to add to a sprawl of sports and aviation assets. The firm agreed to buy UK football club Everton last year, but recently asked for more time to complete the takeover.
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Timetoflyagain
- Rank 3

- Posts: 119
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:12 pm
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
…standing by for the announcement that, in addition to all the ex-Lynx 737’s..all the ex-Bonza 737’s will also be joining Flair’s fleet…
…including the ex-Flair 737’s that went to join Bonza…
..just as soon as someone pays the fuellers..they’ll be all on the way….
..any minute now…
…including the ex-Flair 737’s that went to join Bonza…
..just as soon as someone pays the fuellers..they’ll be all on the way….
..any minute now…
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
I’d be more worried about the announcement coming that all of Flairs 777 owned 37s are being repossessed.Timetoflyagain wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:15 pm …standing by for the announcement that, in addition to all the ex-Lynx 737’s..all the ex-Bonza 737’s will also be joining Flair’s fleet…
…including the ex-Flair 737’s that went to join Bonza…
..just as soon as someone pays the fuellers..they’ll be all on the way….
..any minute now…
How many of the remaining Flair fleet are through 777?
That story is from a day and a half ago end of day news cycle, possible the Canadian version of this will break today. If Flair is only paying loan interest and not up to date on actual lease payments, guaranteed this creditor will be going after those assets.
The 777 house of cards is crumbling!
- TurkeyFarmYQX
- Rank 3

- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:38 am
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
cdnavater wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:13 amI’d be more worried about the announcement coming that all of Flairs 777 owned 37s are being repossessed.Timetoflyagain wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:15 pm …standing by for the announcement that, in addition to all the ex-Lynx 737’s..all the ex-Bonza 737’s will also be joining Flair’s fleet…
…including the ex-Flair 737’s that went to join Bonza…
..just as soon as someone pays the fuellers..they’ll be all on the way….
..any minute now…
How many of the remaining Flair fleet are through 777?
That story is from a day and a half ago end of day news cycle, possible the Canadian version of this will break today. If Flair is only paying loan interest and not up to date on actual lease payments, guaranteed this creditor will be going after those assets.
The 777 house of cards is crumbling!
He was clearly being sarcastic.
Victimized by Boeing
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
Really!TurkeyFarmYQX wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:28 amcdnavater wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:13 amI’d be more worried about the announcement coming that all of Flairs 777 owned 37s are being repossessed.Timetoflyagain wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:15 pm …standing by for the announcement that, in addition to all the ex-Lynx 737’s..all the ex-Bonza 737’s will also be joining Flair’s fleet…
…including the ex-Flair 737’s that went to join Bonza…
..just as soon as someone pays the fuellers..they’ll be all on the way….
..any minute now…
How many of the remaining Flair fleet are through 777?
That story is from a day and a half ago end of day news cycle, possible the Canadian version of this will break today. If Flair is only paying loan interest and not up to date on actual lease payments, guaranteed this creditor will be going after those assets.
The 777 house of cards is crumbling!
He was clearly being sarcastic.
I did pick up on that, however it is hard to convey intent sometimes, my response was not necessarily to TurkeyFarm but more general questions to the development in Australia.
It would be naive to think this won’t affect Flair, unless Flair is making money and paying the lease fees, I can’t see how the same creditors wouldn’t come for them too!
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
Not a lot of positive opinions out there on Flair, I hope it’s really not that bad because god knows Canada cannot be left vulnerable to two predators on the market. I rely on Flair heavily for my commute and would donate ( not pledge haha) a couple bills to give them a lifeline.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
Couldn't agree more. I check this forum a few times a week to make sure nothing catastrophic has happened to Flair as it is by far my favourite airline for domestic flights. I would be gutted if they closed their doors like Lynx.loose wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 2:05 am Not a lot of positive opinions out there on Flair, I hope it’s really not that bad because god knows Canada cannot be left vulnerable to two predators on the market. I rely on Flair heavily for my commute and would donate ( not pledge haha) a couple bills to give them a lifeline.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
DeletedRed_Comet wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:55 amCouldn't agree more. I check this forum a few times a week to make sure nothing catastrophic has happened to Flair as it is by far my favourite airline for domestic flights. I would be gutted if they closed their doors like Lynx.loose wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 2:05 am Not a lot of positive opinions out there on Flair, I hope it’s really not that bad because god knows Canada cannot be left vulnerable to two predators on the market. I rely on Flair heavily for my commute and would donate ( not pledge haha) a couple bills to give them a lifeline.
Last edited by cdnavater on Sat May 04, 2024 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CaptDukeNukem
- Rank 10

- Posts: 2044
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:33 am
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
Why you gotta be like that? People have their favorites for various reasons. I think you need real life friends.cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 4:08 pmWhat trailer park do you live in, just curious as I know a few pilots who are looking for a cheaper place to live in order to keep airfare low we do what we can!Red_Comet wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:55 amCouldn't agree more. I check this forum a few times a week to make sure nothing catastrophic has happened to Flair as it is by far my favourite airline for domestic flights. I would be gutted if they closed their doors like Lynx.loose wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 2:05 am Not a lot of positive opinions out there on Flair, I hope it’s really not that bad because god knows Canada cannot be left vulnerable to two predators on the market. I rely on Flair heavily for my commute and would donate ( not pledge haha) a couple bills to give them a lifeline.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
Sorry, couldn’t resist, I apologize to the esteemed avcanada group!CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 4:35 pmWhy you gotta be like that? People have their favorites for various reasons. I think you need real life friends.
My comments were undeserving and should be removed unless you want to leave them there for future avcanadians, to learn from.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 4:35 pmWhy you gotta be like that? People have their favorites for various reasons. I think you need real life friends.
That said, I like Flair because not just because of their low fares. No dumb LCD screens showing you ads and no food trays every 5 minutes. Some of us can handle being on a flight without constantly stuffing our faces and having our senses blasted by braindead television. Simply flying is enough.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
I appreciate the education, however do you know why one job doesn’t cut it anymore?Red_Comet wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 5:18 amCaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 4:35 pmWhy you gotta be like that? People have their favorites for various reasons. I think you need real life friends.Gotta love boomers. I could write a long article, but suffice to say it ain't 1988 anymore pops. Long gone are the days where one six figure job is enough to buy a 4 bedroom house, a cottage and the local rental property. I've been on the internet a long time and a boomer going about his boomin' isn't exactly rare. But it does go to show how out of touch older generations are with the current reality for younger folk.
That said, I like Flair because not just because of their low fares. No dumb LCD screens showing you ads and no food trays every 5 minutes. Some of us can handle being on a flight without constantly stuffing our faces and having our senses blasted by braindead television. Simply flying is enough.
It’s main driver is companies like Flair bring you low airfare off the backs of the employees, other companies to remain competitive drive down wages. WJ was one of the biggest negative influences on the pilot wages, Flair was attempting round two and thankfully they were having trouble attracting and keeping pilots, despite that, they still ram concessions down the pilot’s throat.
A recent attempt by Air Canada to bring you competitive airfares by unbundling, they were charging for seat selection if you weren’t happy with the auto assigned seat with your base airfare, the uproar made the news despite the fact the airfare was basically Flair.
Btw, not quite a boomer, however I do identify as one except for the fact I don’t have all those things you mentioned, one house, two income family which is absolutely needed these days, I would be doing a lot better if wages kept up with inflation and the government would quit digging deeper in my wallet.
Also, all the negative things about air travel that people love to complain about have been brought to you by the LCC and now the ULCC. A great example is the razor thin super uncomfortable seat with no leg room. Those screens with ads, it’s revenue keeping the airfare down, the list can go on and on.
I suppose you would be ok if Flair started plastering in your face ads on the overhead bins and seat backs and played commercial audio ads during boarding, you know RyanAir type stuff.
Your desire for cheaper and cheaper is what’s wrong with literally everything, not boomers who were smart enough to invest in rental property.
Last point, the reason young people can’t buy a house is not because boomers own them, its government policy allowing more immigrants than houses that drove that,
Take care
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
I agree with almost everything you've written here, except your last paragraph. Competition is required to drive efficiency. Canada's problem is that oligopolies dominate every industry. Telecom, transportation, retail, banking, etc. etc. A handful of companies set prices and crush competition. This never works out well in an economy and leads to stagnation. New entrants are required to pressure established monopolies. This is Econ 101.cdnavater wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 6:04 amI appreciate the education, however do you know why one job doesn’t cut it anymore?Red_Comet wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 5:18 amCaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 4:35 pm
Why you gotta be like that? People have their favorites for various reasons. I think you need real life friends.Gotta love boomers. I could write a long article, but suffice to say it ain't 1988 anymore pops. Long gone are the days where one six figure job is enough to buy a 4 bedroom house, a cottage and the local rental property. I've been on the internet a long time and a boomer going about his boomin' isn't exactly rare. But it does go to show how out of touch older generations are with the current reality for younger folk.
That said, I like Flair because not just because of their low fares. No dumb LCD screens showing you ads and no food trays every 5 minutes. Some of us can handle being on a flight without constantly stuffing our faces and having our senses blasted by braindead television. Simply flying is enough.
It’s main driver is companies like Flair bring you low airfare off the backs of the employees, other companies to remain competitive drive down wages. WJ was one of the biggest negative influences on the pilot wages, Flair was attempting round two and thankfully they were having trouble attracting and keeping pilots, despite that, they still ram concessions down the pilot’s throat.
A recent attempt by Air Canada to bring you competitive airfares by unbundling, they were charging for seat selection if you weren’t happy with the auto assigned seat with your base airfare, the uproar made the news despite the fact the airfare was basically Flair.
Btw, not quite a boomer, however I do identify as one except for the fact I don’t have all those things you mentioned, one house, two income family which is absolutely needed these days, I would be doing a lot better if wages kept up with inflation and the government would quit digging deeper in my wallet.
Also, all the negative things about air travel that people love to complain about have been brought to you by the LCC and now the ULCC. A great example is the razor thin super uncomfortable seat with no leg room. Those screens with ads, it’s revenue keeping the airfare down, the list can go on and on.
I suppose you would be ok if Flair started plastering in your face ads on the overhead bins and seat backs and played commercial audio ads during boarding, you know RyanAir type stuff.
Your desire for cheaper and cheaper is what’s wrong with literally everything, not boomers who were smart enough to invest in rental property.
Last point, the reason young people can’t buy a house is not because boomers own them, its government policy allowing more immigrants than houses that drove that,
Take care
Pilot wages are like any other professional wage issue in the west. Those who have strong guild protection rackets (e.g. Doctors, Lawyers) raise the barrier of entry and restrict foreign participation in their trade. As a result they can dictate prices. Pilots, being the meritocratic bunch that we are, despise these barriers, and thus suffer low wages. There's a reason the pilot unions in the USA love the new 1500 hr rule. And you can't argue with the results. Restricting entry into a profession raises wages, always. It has absolutely nothing to do with ULCCs, since they have to pay the going rate for pilots as set by the market leaders like AC/WJ.
As for being "smart", it doesn't take a genius to buy real estate. It just takes being in the right place at the right time. Many of my friends who make over double/triple the median wage have been priced out of real estate because they were born at the wrong time. What a bunch of idiots, right? You can compare the ratio of real wages to real home prices yourself or watch/read the millions of vidoes/articles written on this subject. It's not rocket science.
All in all, Canada (and the west) is in a pickle because our leaders run the country like a McDonalds. Ruthless monopolization, short term profit fixation, wage suppression, cost cutting, outsourcing, labor importation and union busting galore. This doesn't work for a highly technically complex industry like aviation. Pilots aren't burger flippers, and air transport isn't fast food, and if you treat it as such you'll get the disasters we're seeing at Boeing and the pilot salaries here.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
And I agree with most of what you said, barrier to entry would absolutely bring wages up but with no government appetite to do so, new entrants drive wages down, it’s economics 101. Established can’t or won’t compete, they go after employees who feel threatened and ultimately give in.Red_Comet wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 6:20 amI agree with almost everything you've written here, except your last paragraph. Competition is required to drive efficiency. Canada's problem is that oligopolies dominate every industry. Telecom, transportation, retail, banking, etc. etc. A handful of companies set prices and crush competition. This never works out well in an economy and leads to stagnation. New entrants are required to pressure established monopolies. This is Econ 101.cdnavater wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 6:04 amI appreciate the education, however do you know why one job doesn’t cut it anymore?Red_Comet wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 5:18 am
Gotta love boomers. I could write a long article, but suffice to say it ain't 1988 anymore pops. Long gone are the days where one six figure job is enough to buy a 4 bedroom house, a cottage and the local rental property. I've been on the internet a long time and a boomer going about his boomin' isn't exactly rare. But it does go to show how out of touch older generations are with the current reality for younger folk.
That said, I like Flair because not just because of their low fares. No dumb LCD screens showing you ads and no food trays every 5 minutes. Some of us can handle being on a flight without constantly stuffing our faces and having our senses blasted by braindead television. Simply flying is enough.
It’s main driver is companies like Flair bring you low airfare off the backs of the employees, other companies to remain competitive drive down wages. WJ was one of the biggest negative influences on the pilot wages, Flair was attempting round two and thankfully they were having trouble attracting and keeping pilots, despite that, they still ram concessions down the pilot’s throat.
A recent attempt by Air Canada to bring you competitive airfares by unbundling, they were charging for seat selection if you weren’t happy with the auto assigned seat with your base airfare, the uproar made the news despite the fact the airfare was basically Flair.
Btw, not quite a boomer, however I do identify as one except for the fact I don’t have all those things you mentioned, one house, two income family which is absolutely needed these days, I would be doing a lot better if wages kept up with inflation and the government would quit digging deeper in my wallet.
Also, all the negative things about air travel that people love to complain about have been brought to you by the LCC and now the ULCC. A great example is the razor thin super uncomfortable seat with no leg room. Those screens with ads, it’s revenue keeping the airfare down, the list can go on and on.
I suppose you would be ok if Flair started plastering in your face ads on the overhead bins and seat backs and played commercial audio ads during boarding, you know RyanAir type stuff.
Your desire for cheaper and cheaper is what’s wrong with literally everything, not boomers who were smart enough to invest in rental property.
Last point, the reason young people can’t buy a house is not because boomers own them, its government policy allowing more immigrants than houses that drove that,
Take care
Pilot wages are like any other professional wage issue in the west. Those who have strong guild protection rackets (e.g. Doctors, Lawyers) raise the barrier of entry and restrict foreign participation in their trade. As a result they can dictate prices. Pilots, being the meritocratic bunch that we are, despise these barriers, and thus suffer low wages. There's a reason the pilot unions in the USA love the new 1500 hr rule. And you can't argue with the results. Restricting entry into a profession raises wages, always. It has absolutely nothing to do with ULCCs, since they have to pay the going rate for pilots as set by the market leaders like AC/WJ.
As for being "smart", it doesn't take a genius to buy real estate. It just takes being in the right place at the right time. Many of my friends who make over double/triple the median wage have been priced out of real estate because they were born at the wrong time. What a bunch of idiots, right? You can compare the ratio of real wages to real home prices yourself or watch/read the millions of vidoes/articles written on this subject. It's not rocket science.
All in all, Canada (and the west) is in a pickle because our leaders run the country like a McDonalds. Ruthless monopolization, short term profit fixation, wage suppression, cost cutting, outsourcing, labor importation and union busting galore. This doesn't work for a highly technically complex industry like aviation. Pilots aren't burger flippers, and air transport isn't fast food, and if you treat it as such you'll get the disasters we're seeing at Boeing and the pilot salaries here.
Now, on that note, it is confirmed the US is looking at barring under 1500 hours from operating into US airspace, much like the 65 rule, they can ban anyone who doesn’t follow the rule from operating.
This will be good for wages and quite detrimental to Jazz, who probably only half the pilots would qualify.
As for being born at the right time, again, if wages kept up with real inflation, this wouldn’t be quite as bad of a problem.
Both my kids, born in the mid 90s own houses, obviously it’s a smaller market where they are and I guarantee they wouldn’t in any of the most expensive cities in Canada but this is government policy at play. Too many new comers, exceeding demand driving prices up, it would take years of no new immigration and building housing to fix this, unfortunately that ship is sailed.
The only fix now is a catastrophic burst of the housing bubble, many lives completely destroyed so your friends can own, owning a house is not a right, it’s an earned privilege, plenty of people rent. Choice, move to a smaller more affordable market or get used to renting.
I don’t have the answers but I do know, wages need to go up and in aviation, competition has the opposite effect, always has.
Cheers
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newlygrounded
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Re: C-FLHI MIA?
cdnavater wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 7:55 amAnd I agree with most of what you said, barrier to entry would absolutely bring wages up but with no government appetite to do so, new entrants drive wages down, it’s economics 101. Established can’t or won’t compete, they go after employees who feel threatened and ultimately give in.Red_Comet wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 6:20 amI agree with almost everything you've written here, except your last paragraph. Competition is required to drive efficiency. Canada's problem is that oligopolies dominate every industry. Telecom, transportation, retail, banking, etc. etc. A handful of companies set prices and crush competition. This never works out well in an economy and leads to stagnation. New entrants are required to pressure established monopolies. This is Econ 101.cdnavater wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 6:04 am
I appreciate the education, however do you know why one job doesn’t cut it anymore?
It’s main driver is companies like Flair bring you low airfare off the backs of the employees, other companies to remain competitive drive down wages. WJ was one of the biggest negative influences on the pilot wages, Flair was attempting round two and thankfully they were having trouble attracting and keeping pilots, despite that, they still ram concessions down the pilot’s throat.
A recent attempt by Air Canada to bring you competitive airfares by unbundling, they were charging for seat selection if you weren’t happy with the auto assigned seat with your base airfare, the uproar made the news despite the fact the airfare was basically Flair.
Btw, not quite a boomer, however I do identify as one except for the fact I don’t have all those things you mentioned, one house, two income family which is absolutely needed these days, I would be doing a lot better if wages kept up with inflation and the government would quit digging deeper in my wallet.
Also, all the negative things about air travel that people love to complain about have been brought to you by the LCC and now the ULCC. A great example is the razor thin super uncomfortable seat with no leg room. Those screens with ads, it’s revenue keeping the airfare down, the list can go on and on.
I suppose you would be ok if Flair started plastering in your face ads on the overhead bins and seat backs and played commercial audio ads during boarding, you know RyanAir type stuff.
Your desire for cheaper and cheaper is what’s wrong with literally everything, not boomers who were smart enough to invest in rental property.
Last point, the reason young people can’t buy a house is not because boomers own them, its government policy allowing more immigrants than houses that drove that,
Take care
Pilot wages are like any other professional wage issue in the west. Those who have strong guild protection rackets (e.g. Doctors, Lawyers) raise the barrier of entry and restrict foreign participation in their trade. As a result they can dictate prices. Pilots, being the meritocratic bunch that we are, despise these barriers, and thus suffer low wages. There's a reason the pilot unions in the USA love the new 1500 hr rule. And you can't argue with the results. Restricting entry into a profession raises wages, always. It has absolutely nothing to do with ULCCs, since they have to pay the going rate for pilots as set by the market leaders like AC/WJ.
As for being "smart", it doesn't take a genius to buy real estate. It just takes being in the right place at the right time. Many of my friends who make over double/triple the median wage have been priced out of real estate because they were born at the wrong time. What a bunch of idiots, right? You can compare the ratio of real wages to real home prices yourself or watch/read the millions of vidoes/articles written on this subject. It's not rocket science.
All in all, Canada (and the west) is in a pickle because our leaders run the country like a McDonalds. Ruthless monopolization, short term profit fixation, wage suppression, cost cutting, outsourcing, labor importation and union busting galore. This doesn't work for a highly technically complex industry like aviation. Pilots aren't burger flippers, and air transport isn't fast food, and if you treat it as such you'll get the disasters we're seeing at Boeing and the pilot salaries here.
Now, on that note, it is confirmed the US is looking at barring under 1500 hours from operating into US airspace, much like the 65 rule, they can ban anyone who doesn’t follow the rule from operating.
This will be good for wages and quite detrimental to Jazz, who probably only half the pilots would qualify.
As for being born at the right time, again, if wages kept up with real inflation, this wouldn’t be quite as bad of a problem.
Both my kids, born in the mid 90s own houses, obviously it’s a smaller market where they are and I guarantee they wouldn’t in any of the most expensive cities in Canada but this is government policy at play. Too many new comers, exceeding demand driving prices up, it would take years of no new immigration and building housing to fix this, unfortunately that ship is sailed.
The only fix now is a catastrophic burst of the housing bubble, many lives completely destroyed so your friends can own, owning a house is not a right, it’s an earned privilege, plenty of people rent. Choice, move to a smaller more affordable market or get used to renting.
I don’t have the answers but I do know, wages need to go up and in aviation, competition has the opposite effect, always has.
Cheers
It's nice to see a reasonable take here! I'm really happy to see the perceived unity when it comes to voting in the last 2 or 3 years. I'm an outsider looking in but seeing 80%+ or 90%!
"Choice, move to a smaller more affordable market or get used to renting" This is really sucky in a lot of ways though, like ideally as a pilot you'd have a spouse in a different field but look at the job market in smaller places if you're not married to a dentist or accountant. Renting sucks since you get kicked out as soon as the landlord wants more rent or you're not in a rent controlled building and salaries skyrocket.
Re: C-FLHI MIA?
Looks like Bruce (C-FLHI) is heading back. Slow news day at the Daily Mail.
"The Boeing 737, known as Bruce, left Sunshine Coast airport for Honolulu at 9am on Thursday under the flight tag of Canadian budget airline Flair, the aircraft's co-owner."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/austra ... eepen.html
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-flhi#
"The Boeing 737, known as Bruce, left Sunshine Coast airport for Honolulu at 9am on Thursday under the flight tag of Canadian budget airline Flair, the aircraft's co-owner."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/austra ... eepen.html
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-flhi#


