Porter vs AC

[pitottubey]

50 percent up the porter master seniority list, 28 years old YTZ based FO, 1900 flight hours.
Still most people I talk to recommend I go to AC for my career, especially older guys. Thats it's simply the best place to be even if you'll be more junior, and even if I've mostly missed this hiring wave.
Whats people take on this? Need advice please and thanks.

[IntensivePurposes]

A friend’s son joined at 26, was assigned 330 F/O, now at age 28 is a new 320 CA. He did join with jet time from corporate.

[vanislepilot]

Nah brah I don’t think you have missed any hiring wave
At 28… that’s like 37 years of service if you want it
I heard Air Canada will hire lots of guys in the coming years, especially if they expand… I think you would be just fine

[Kennythegreat]

How are you at 50% of the master seniority list with 1900 hrs?

[pitottubey]

How are you at 50% of the master seniority list with 1900 hrs?

Was hired right before we started getting the E2 jets, and we've doubled our pilot group in those 1.5 years. In 2 years with even more hiring and jets I should be roughly 20 percent master seniority. If I stay here i should hold off Christmas my whole career I'd figure.

[Flyboy736]

How are you at 50% of the master seniority list with 1900 hrs?

Was hired right before we started getting the E2 jets, and we've doubled our pilot group in those 1.5 years. In 2 years with even more hiring and jets I should be roughly 20 percent master seniority. If I stay here i should hold off Christmas my whole career I'd figure.

Never an easy choice to make.
I guess it boils down to do you think Porter will stick around in the coming years. Amazing lifestyle if you have a fulfilling career there do you have seniority projections there? Will you be number 1 system wide before retirement?

[braaap Braap]

How are you at 50% of the master seniority list with 1900 hrs?

Was hired right before we started getting the E2 jets, and we've doubled our pilot group in those 1.5 years. In 2 years with even more hiring and jets I should be roughly 20 percent master seniority. If I stay here i should hold off Christmas my whole career I'd figure.

It's a difficult position to be in for sure. Personally, I'm willing to "let it ride" on Porter since I think the expansion will sink or establish us in the next couple years and the payoff of enjoying that seniority for the next 3 decades seems worth it. Worst case Porter folds and we go to the next thing like many people have had to do. Basically in my opinion, the upside of staying and it working out outweigh the downside of it not working out and having to start over.

[pitottubey]

How are you at 50% of the master seniority list with 1900 hrs?

Was hired right before we started getting the E2 jets, and we've doubled our pilot group in those 1.5 years. In 2 years with even more hiring and jets I should be roughly 20 percent master seniority. If I stay here i should hold off Christmas my whole career I'd figure.

Never an easy choice to make.
I guess it boils down to do you think Porter will stick around in the coming years. Amazing lifestyle if you have a fulfilling career there do you have seniority projections there? Will you be number 1 system wide before retirement?

Who knows. If they can survive the next 5 years or so the path is def more clear. But I should make my decision before that obviously, I have to decide ideally now if I want to go to AC or not, and get my number asap. If I stayed at porter I'm sure Id have incredibly high seniority before retirement (assuming we don't go under) but not number 1 system wide.

[Hysteria]

Was hired right before we started getting the E2 jets, and we've doubled our pilot group in those 1.5 years. In 2 years with even more hiring and jets I should be roughly 20 percent master seniority. If I stay here i should hold off Christmas my whole career I'd figure.

Never an easy choice to make.
I guess it boils down to do you think Porter will stick around in the coming years. Amazing lifestyle if you have a fulfilling career there do you have seniority projections there? Will you be number 1 system wide before retirement?

Who knows. If they can survive the next 5 years or so the path is def more clear. But I should make my decision before that obviously, I have to decide ideally now if I want to go to AC or not, and get my number asap. If I stayed at porter I'm sure Id have incredibly high seniority before retirement (assuming we don't go under) but not number 1 system wide.

At this point, REALLY think it over. If you are willing to give up lifestyle for a few years while you're young - there's that.

[pitottubey]

I'd be willing to have a shit schedule for 2 or 3 years ya, that seems more than worth it. Then delay the capt upgrade another 2 years for lifestyle. I'm not really sure what to expect timeline wise.

[702pipeliner]

I'd be willing to have a shit schedule for 2 or 3 years ya, that seems more than worth it. Then delay the capt upgrade another 2 years for lifestyle. I'm not really sure what to expect timeline wise.

You seem to keep defending a stance at ac and opposing some people's opinion about staying at porter. Maybe unknowingly you have already made the decision just not realized it.

[goingnowherefast]

Will you need to commute for AC, but living at your base for Porter?

Commuting sucks. Even more when junior.

[pitottubey]

Will you need to commute for AC, but living at your base for Porter?

Commuting sucks. Even more when junior.

Pearson is the closest base for me, so either way I want YYZ.

[Flyboy736]

I'd be willing to have a shit schedule for 2 or 3 years ya, that seems more than worth it. Then delay the capt upgrade another 2 years for lifestyle. I'm not really sure what to expect timeline wise.

You seem to keep defending a stance at ac and opposing some people's opinion about staying at porter. Maybe unknowingly you have already made the decision just not realized it.

OP I don't mean to be pessimistic but if you are basing AC on 3 years before you can upgrade you have a possibility of being disappointed. I'd be basing my decision to jump over with a more pessimistic view and be pleasantly surprised if proved wrong

[Core]

AC salary will go up this year, and flat pay will be 2 years at most, maybe 1 or none.

Porter will aggressively bump as well, but at the end of the day a pilot is generally paid by size, and you'll be making a lot more at AC.
Question is, 10 years down the road is a high seniority schedule at Porter better than 100k a year difference? Is there any schedule difference at all?

[cjp]

AC salary will go up this year, and flat pay will be 2 years at most, maybe 1 or none.

Porter will aggressively bump as well, but at the end of the day a pilot is generally paid by size, and you'll be making a lot more at AC.
Question is, 10 years down the road is a high seniority schedule at Porter better than 100k a year difference? Is there any schedule difference at all?

Porter currently builds more growth in their salaries over a 12 year period. Yes, eventually you'll be on a 777/87, and yes if you're lucky enough to attain widebody, you will be paid decently well. But widebody flying should generally be reserved for young bodies. Guys flying overnight, across 19 timezones for 36 hours, then coming all the way back are going to be broken by the time they hit 65.

[pitottubey]

AC salary will go up this year, and flat pay will be 2 years at most, maybe 1 or none.

Porter will aggressively bump as well, but at the end of the day a pilot is generally paid by size, and you'll be making a lot more at AC.
Question is, 10 years down the road is a high seniority schedule at Porter better than 100k a year difference? Is there any schedule difference at all?

Porter currently builds more growth in their salaries over a 12 year period. Yes, eventually you'll be on a 777/87, and yes if you're lucky enough to attain widebody, you will be paid decently well. But widebody flying should generally be reserved for young bodies. Guys flying overnight, across 19 timezones for 36 hours, then coming all the way back are going to be broken by the time they hit 65.

It's easy to build growth into the payscales when everyone is year 2 or less on the E2 payscales. Why not just put year 12 at 300,000! Doesn't matter anyways no ones on year 12.

[cjp]

AC salary will go up this year, and flat pay will be 2 years at most, maybe 1 or none.

Porter will aggressively bump as well, but at the end of the day a pilot is generally paid by size, and you'll be making a lot more at AC.
Question is, 10 years down the road is a high seniority schedule at Porter better than 100k a year difference? Is there any schedule difference at all?

Porter currently builds more growth in their salaries over a 12 year period. Yes, eventually you'll be on a 777/87, and yes if you're lucky enough to attain widebody, you will be paid decently well. But widebody flying should generally be reserved for young bodies. Guys flying overnight, across 19 timezones for 36 hours, then coming all the way back are going to be broken by the time they hit 65.

It's easy to build growth into the payscales when everyone is year 2 or less on the E2 payscales. Why not just put year 12 at 300,000! Doesn't matter anyways no ones on year 12.

Some are year 4 and 5 with the Dash carry over. I'll be year 3 this fall. You could say that about every new company, why have a payscale at all...just pay year to year.

[flying4dollars]

AC salary will go up this year, and flat pay will be 2 years at most, maybe 1 or none.

Porter will aggressively bump as well, but at the end of the day a pilot is generally paid by size, and you'll be making a lot more at AC.
Question is, 10 years down the road is a high seniority schedule at Porter better than 100k a year difference? Is there any schedule difference at all?

Porter currently builds more growth in their salaries over a 12 year period. Yes, eventually you'll be on a 777/87, and yes if you're lucky enough to attain widebody, you will be paid decently well. But widebody flying should generally be reserved for young bodies. Guys flying overnight, across 19 timezones for 36 hours, then coming all the way back are going to be broken by the time they hit 65.

It's easy to build growth into the payscales when everyone is year 2 or less on the E2 payscales. Why not just put year 12 at 300,000! Doesn't matter anyways no ones on year 12.

Someone here already mentioned it but it seems as though you've made your mind up and you just don't fully realize it yet and are coming on here for validation. The information out there on both companies and lifestyles is out there (you work for one so that should make it easy). What suits YOU best? Do that...

[Canadaflyer46]

Porter currently builds more growth in their salaries over a 12 year period. Yes, eventually you'll be on a 777/87, and yes if you're lucky enough to attain widebody, you will be paid decently well. But widebody flying should generally be reserved for young bodies. Guys flying overnight, across 19 timezones for 36 hours, then coming all the way back are going to be broken by the time they hit 65.

It's easy to build growth into the payscales when everyone is year 2 or less on the E2 payscales. Why not just put year 12 at 300,000! Doesn't matter anyways no ones on year 12.

Some are year 4 and 5 with the Dash carry over. I'll be year 3 this fall. You could say that about every new company, why have a payscale at all...just pay year to year.

So there’s YOS when going from the Q to the E2? I was under the impression it was like going from Encore to WJ and you start from the bottom again for pay.

[clrdleftbase]

It's easy to build growth into the payscales when everyone is year 2 or less on the E2 payscales. Why not just put year 12 at 300,000! Doesn't matter anyways no ones on year 12.

Some are year 4 and 5 with the Dash carry over. I'll be year 3 this fall. You could say that about every new company, why have a payscale at all...just pay year to year.

So there’s YOS when going from the Q to the E2? I was under the impression it was like going from Encore to WJ and you start from the bottom again for pay.

Nope, no YOS transfer, to some extent even when you upgrade on the same type. Need 10+ years as a Dash Captain to get E2 Capt. Y2. 4 Years as an FO to get Capt. Y2 when upgrading. And no FO-FO YOS transfer whatsoever.

[cjp]

It's easy to build growth into the payscales when everyone is year 2 or less on the E2 payscales. Why not just put year 12 at 300,000! Doesn't matter anyways no ones on year 12.

Some are year 4 and 5 with the Dash carry over. I'll be year 3 this fall. You could say that about every new company, why have a payscale at all...just pay year to year.

So there’s YOS when going from the Q to the E2? I was under the impression it was like going from Encore to WJ and you start from the bottom again for pay.

It wasn't full YOS - I think for some of the 10-15 year crews, they gave them YR 2 and 3 on the E2 for their loyalty. Not sure if they removed that or if anyone actually qualifies.

[Transition9er2]

Speaking from experience, the appeal of flying a big shinny jet fades quite quickly and lifestyle is the thing you start chasing!

IMO, if I were in your shoes I’d be staying at Porter. AC management have made it abundantly clear that Porter is a major thorn in their side. It would NOT surprise me if AC acquired Porter in the next 5(ish) years. Might be a crazy thought, but with the business model Porter has it’s going to cause AC issues for years to come.

I wouldn’t base this decision solely on this idea, but “IF” this happens there’ll be some sort of seniority integration and you’ll be laughing.

If it doesn’t, enjoy making a great wage and living an amazing life with Christmas off. You likely won’t see that for a while.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck in your decision. It’s not an easy one, but sounds like you’re going about it the right way!

[alkaseltzer]

Speaking from experience, the appeal of flying a big shinny jet fades quite quickly and lifestyle is the thing you start chasing!

IMO, if I were in your shoes I’d be staying at Porter. AC management have made it abundantly clear that Porter is a major thorn in their side. It would NOT surprise me if AC acquired Porter in the next 5(ish) years. Might be a crazy thought, but with the business model Porter has it’s going to cause AC issues for years to come.

I wouldn’t base this decision solely on this idea, but “IF” this happens there’ll be some sort of seniority integration and you’ll be laughing.

If it doesn’t, enjoy making a great wage and living an amazing life with Christmas off. You likely won’t see that for a while.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck in your decision. It’s not an easy one, but sounds like you’re going about it the right way!

Now that would be something. Ditch Jazz, and integrate with an operation that has real potential for growth. Align the Porter rewards programs, ease the pain of the 220 engine issues and voila!

Cuz I’m sure that’s what the Deluce’s intended it to be.

Worth more than Transat any day now.

I’d be very concerned/curious about a seniority integration with Porter should it happen.

[Fidget]

With less than optimal load factors porter is not making enough money to keep the first fins past heavy check. Their aircraft orders are to ensure a revolving door of new fins to replace the older ones. Having AC buy them has been Deluce’s game plan since their inception. Won’t happen.

As for the engine issues on the 220, the e195 uses PW as well. There’s a reason AC stepped away from the EMJ. Not enough seats for the operating costs to make money.