Just downright embarrassing. Why do pilots in this country continue to have zero backbone? Who is voting yes (and why) to being paid less than all their competition? I don't get it. What did you gain exactly?

I'd guess the threat of losing their jobs is what made them pass it.

Because they are weak.

Got some brainiac in another thread comparing Canada to developing countries. Great stuff

Encore pilots are not weak. There bargaining position is. Westjet could have mainline replace them and there routes quickly. The union told them this in there last email to the pilot group. They made a smart play. 4 more years of job security.

Because 79% most likely are just using encore as a stepping stone and in a few years are off to AC/Porter/Overseas. So might as well get a slight pay bump while getting your ATPL.

So Westjet negots include the threat of outsource to Encore, and Encore gets the threat of takeover by mainline.

Come on, is everyone blind to this horseshit? Just got played like a banjo.

Pilotguy007 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:25 pm Encore pilots are not weak. There bargaining position is. Westjet could have mainline replace them and there routes quickly. The union told them this in there last email to the pilot group. They made a smart play. 4 more years of job security.

LMAO

Said every Canadian pilot for the last 20 yrs as they become the Frostbacks of the North

Matching porter pay at best. Good work encore. You had a chance and now you got 5 years of watching on the sidelines.

Maybe the AMEs won’t cuck as hard…

You get what "you" vote for.

Sorry for the 21 percent stuck with a deal they didn't want. This is going to burn when AC pilots get a world class contract, and encore is stuck in a 5 year deal.

Pilotguy007 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:25 pm Westjet could have mainline replace them and there routes quickly.

Would that not have effectively been immediate flow for all?

DanWEC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:11 pm So Westjet negots include the threat of outsource to Encore, and Encore gets the threat of takeover by mainline.

Come on, is everyone blind to this horseshit? Just got played like a banjo.

YUP!!!

Paywise, here's what was shown at the roadshows for examples. Take that with as much salt as you want.

LoS carry-over when upgrading:




Contract length pay as an FO:

So the roadshow only compared wages to jazz and Porter selectively?

ALPA Union in this case cherry picked lower paid positions at other airlines as comparison. Why not any other Canadian airlines? Why not compare to airlines in the US doing similar work? They may as well had just said your career plan should be to leave here after year one because that is the best way to increase your career earnings. And the old upgrade early and get captain pay, the music can stop at any time so good luck. Half the pilots there will be in the right seat getting fo wages, that's how the company see it regardless of how fast someone upgrades.

Whoever put this together is definitely future management material. This contract is the America regional contract of 20 years ago. ACPA style union leaders all over again. Pathetic.

Core wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:14 pm

DanWEC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:11 pm So Westjet negots include the threat of outsource to Encore, and Encore gets the threat of takeover by mainline.

Come on, is everyone blind to this horseshit? Just got played like a banjo.

YUP!!!

Maintaining the existence of 2 tiers of airlines is saving them 10's of millions a year at each in labour costs by simply leveraging negotiations against each other. And still no strikes. Remember this for AC when they threaten lift to Jazz.

Absolutely and utterly obvious... yet here we are.

Pilotguy007 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:25 pm Encore pilots are not weak. There bargaining position is. Westjet could have mainline replace them and there routes quickly. The union told them this in there last email to the pilot group. They made a smart play. 4 more years of job security.

In what world does a new contract guarantee job security? Management could still decide to pull the plug on Encore at any time. The pilot group is just allowing the company continue to take advantage of cheap labour until then.

TA1 was voted down, TA2 was the exact same agreement but with 6 extra days off each 12 months. The only reason it was voted in is due to the Encore MEC sending a threatening email to the pilot group telling them to vote in favour. The Encore MEC achieved nothing other than matching Porter’s pay scale. Nothing was achieved for career progression. Their union acted in a disgraceful manner and had no business being at a bargaining table. They should hang their heads in shame walking through the terminal.

Why don’t your unions demand concurrent contract expiry dates?

Jazz and AC too.

And BTW they play you hard cause they know most of you are in debt and can’t take a strike.

Prove me wrong.

Debt is the killer.

Me262 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:26 pm Because 79% most likely are just using encore as a stepping stone and in a few years are off to AC/Porter/Overseas. So might as well get a slight pay bump while getting your ATPL.

I love this

Let's be really shitty unionists and capture some sweet Fort St John's flying so I can build some hours to go somewhere else in hopes they aren't a bunch of pussies that also capture flying to do something else at discount

Always kicking the can down the road...until you realize this mentality just doesn't work...what comes around goes around

Encore should be expelled from ALPA for these results

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:02 pm You get what "you" vote for.

Sorry for the 21 percent stuck with a deal they didn't want. This is going to burn when AC pilots get a world class contract, and encore is stuck in a 5 year deal.

AC pilots were Encore pilots 0-5 years ago. What makes you think they will vote differently?

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:57 pm

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:02 pm You get what "you" vote for.

Sorry for the 21 percent stuck with a deal they didn't want. This is going to burn when AC pilots get a world class contract, and encore is stuck in a 5 year deal.

AC pilots were Encore pilots 0-5 years ago. What makes you think they will vote differently?

Damn.... That's quite the observation. I think we're all doomed really...

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:02 pm You get what "you" vote for.

Sorry for the 21 percent stuck with a deal they didn't want. This is going to burn when AC pilots get a world class contract, and encore is stuck in a 5 year deal.

Ya right. AC will be next to vote in garbage. It's the Canadian way!

Air Canada pilots are there for life. They have to live with the reprecussions of whatever they vote for their entire career. Better be some hardball.

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:57 pm

JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:02 pm You get what "you" vote for.

Sorry for the 21 percent stuck with a deal they didn't want. This is going to burn when AC pilots get a world class contract, and encore is stuck in a 5 year deal.

AC pilots were Encore pilots 0-5 years ago. What makes you think they will vote differently?

A yearly "2% bump" is NOT a raise. Pilots are DUMB if they think otherwise.
It WILL NOT keep up with core inflation. 2% is a LOSER every year, and it's a "compounded loss".


Compounded losses are EXPONENTIAL over the life of the career, and it will -drag- on any future gains. You guys understand what "drag" is, right??? Exponentially increacing drag = CRASH. It's like collecting ice faster and faster because the accumulation area keeps increacing with the more ice you collect.

Think of inflation as the ice, and your yearly increace as the ability to shed it.

The Encore business model has inflation already incorporated into their forward looking business plan, (because it would be stupid for a pilot not to think about icing, and the aircrafts ability to shed it before going flying...RIGHT???) The Company thinks about inflation and plans for it by using 2.5% or even 3.5% for that model, including employee pay, so at 2% you guys effectively put .5% to 1.5% right back into their pockets each year on an expense they already planned for, and are setting yourselves BACK an equal amount. Increacing your DRAG --EVERY YEAR--- because it's COMPOUNDED!!! Good work.

Question: Who would "willingly" negotiate a 2% "increace" per annum in an environment running at 2.8-3.8% inflation per year, thinking it's anything other than a loss???

Answer: No one with half a wits sense. Apparently nearly 80 something percent are just fine with that, or simply failed to consider it at all. I'm thinking the latter cuz pilots are a bit dumb in this country.


Remember 2% is the BANK of CANADA INFLATION TARGET....THAT'S BEST CASE. A 2% increace yearly is a noose around your neck that's getting TIGHTER and TIGHTER every year. I know math is hard, but a 2% increace in one year VS. a 2.1% rise in inflation = LESS BUYING POWER = BAD.


Crazy world is this. You certainly get what you negotiate though, that's a fact.