Finally some balls in this industry

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.7250665

Good news for the mechanics is that all the money the company is saving on Encore pilots, it can go to them!

FelixGustof wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:21 pm Finally some balls in this industry

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.7250665

"Given arbitration has been ordered, a strike has no leverage on the arbitration's outcome, so it is pure retaliation of a disappointed union."

Why yes... that's exactly what it is


On a more serious note, will these AMEs get strike pay for an 'illegal' strike?

And could they get fired? Although if they strike in unity I'm sure WJ can't afford to fire them all for the "illegal" strike. It is beautiful though.

Me262 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:56 pm And could they get fired? Although if they strike in unity I'm sure WJ can't afford to fire them all for the "illegal" strike. It is beautiful though.

Looks like it might be legal after all:

The union's legal counsel, however, said that the strike is within the union's rights even with the minister's order. Sam Sahen said that there was no explicit mention that job action by AMFA would be against the law.

"What was silent or what was omitted from the minister's referral is any indication that AMFA's right to strike had been curtailed or limited, that is a constitutional right," he said.

"So in that silence, of course the right prevails, the minister did not take any steps to limit that right. There may be some confusion, but the striking and arbitrating are not mutually exclusive."

He said that the CIRB also expressed that job action by the union is lawful.

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.7250665

digits_ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:37 pm

FelixGustof wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:21 pm Finally some balls in this industry

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.7250665

"Given arbitration has been ordered, a strike has no leverage on the arbitration's outcome, so it is pure retaliation of a disappointed union."

Why yes... that's exactly what it is


On a more serious note, will these AMEs get strike pay for an 'illegal' strike?

Please tell me exactly how this is illegal?

digits_ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 8:12 pm

Me262 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:56 pm And could they get fired? Although if they strike in unity I'm sure WJ can't afford to fire them all for the "illegal" strike. It is beautiful though.

Looks like it might be legal after all:

The union's legal counsel, however, said that the strike is within the union's rights even with the minister's order. Sam Sahen said that there was no explicit mention that job action by AMFA would be against the law.

"What was silent or what was omitted from the minister's referral is any indication that AMFA's right to strike had been curtailed or limited, that is a constitutional right," he said.

"So in that silence, of course the right prevails, the minister did not take any steps to limit that right. There may be some confusion, but the striking and arbitrating are not mutually exclusive."

He said that the CIRB also expressed that job action by the union is lawful.

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.7250665

Beauty, I missed it.

This is awesome!
I wonder if the ministers office is working on the long weekend, this will definitely be an interesting weekend for labour.
If binding arbitration doesn’t automatically mean no further action can be taken, I assume being ordered into binding arbitration doesn’t prevent both parties from coming to an agreement before the process starts, so perhaps and it seems like it also doesn’t prevent job action if notice was given before the arbitration process begins.
Maybe WJ comes to the table with some more money before too much damage, they are stubborn though.

I doubt Westjet Management will come willingly to the table with more money. This strike has trampled their pride. WJ AME's hang in there!

I’m thinking this mistake will cost someone their job, perhaps a few golden parachutes will be deployed after this!

I am wondering if this is what the minister intended or if it was an oversight and this binding arbitration order should also have meant that strikes and lockouts were off the table.

digits_ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 9:29 am I am wondering if this is what the minister intended or if it was an oversight and this binding arbitration order should also have meant that strikes and lockouts were off the table.

The CIRB order is right there:

"the board finds that the ministerial referral does not have the effect of suspending the right to strike or lockout."

O'Regan wanted the CIRB to do his heavy lifting and subvert labour rights in this country. They kicked it back at him.

There is no way they reconvene parliament to pass legislation or invoke a notwithstanding clause on an order in cabinet.

Just another example of a fúck up by an incompetent amateur government and its ministers. Had WJ management not been so sure of the CIRB referral and so badly misunderstood it's implications they would have been at the table.

O'Regan himself said: "the best deal is a negotiated deal" - looks like we're going to get one.

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 10:56 am

digits_ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 9:29 am I am wondering if this is what the minister intended or if it was an oversight and this binding arbitration order should also have meant that strikes and lockouts were off the table.

The CIRB order is right there:

"the board finds that the ministerial referral does not have the effect of suspending the right to strike or lockout."

O'Regan wanted the CIRB to do his heavy lifting and subvert labour rights in this country. They kicked it back at him.

There is no way they reconvene parliament to pass legislation or invoke a notwithstanding clause on an order in cabinet.

Just another example of a fúck up by an incompetent amateur government and its ministers. Had WJ management not been so sure of the CIRB referral and so badly misunderstood it's implications they would have been at the table.

O'Regan himself said: "the best deal is a negotiated deal" - looks like we're going to get one.

New update
https://x.com/SeamusORegan/status/1807102895617355861

Exactly.

He will do nothing. He wanted to but he has neither the balls, the political capital, nor the support in parliament to break the law and subvert the strike.

WJ management had better get back to the table. Or are the amateur MBAs too busy throwing a tantrum to do the job.

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:17 am Exactly.

He will do nothing. He wanted to but he has neither the balls, the political capital, nor the support in parliament to break the law and subvert the strike.

WJ management had better get back to the table. Or are the amateur MBAs too busy throwing a tantrum to do the job.

Why should the union go back to the table? (Today)

My read, the more pressure, the better the deal. Let some pain happen first.

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:23 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:17 am Exactly.

He will do nothing. He wanted to but he has neither the balls, the political capital, nor the support in parliament to break the law and subvert the strike.

WJ management had better get back to the table. Or are the amateur MBAs too busy throwing a tantrum to do the job.

Why should the union go back to the table? (Today)

My read, the more pressure, the better the deal. Let some pain happen first.

Because it's their airline. AMEs and Pilots are the airline.

CEOs and executives come and go - I'm pretty sure that these ones will be going soon.

The AMEs only want good faith bargaining from management and to achieve their own goals, and whether it's today or tomorrow or next week, the pressure is on. Let them know that you're ready to save them with a deal right now - it's on them.

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:33 am

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:23 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:17 am Exactly.

He will do nothing. He wanted to but he has neither the balls, the political capital, nor the support in parliament to break the law and subvert the strike.

WJ management had better get back to the table. Or are the amateur MBAs too busy throwing a tantrum to do the job.

Why should the union go back to the table? (Today)

My read, the more pressure, the better the deal. Let some pain happen first.

Because it's their airline. AMEs and Pilots are the airline.

CEOs and executives come and go - I'm pretty sure that these ones will be going soon.

The AMEs only want good faith bargaining from management and to achieve their own goals, and whether it's today or tomorrow or next week, the pressure is on. Let them know that you're ready to save them with a deal right now - it's on them.

JT badly needs a win. Any win.

Apply enough pressure, he will order Onex to come generously to the table.

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:23 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:17 am Exactly.

He will do nothing. He wanted to but he has neither the balls, the political capital, nor the support in parliament to break the law and subvert the strike.

WJ management had better get back to the table. Or are the amateur MBAs too busy throwing a tantrum to do the job.

Why should the union go back to the table? (Today)

My read, the more pressure, the better the deal. Let some pain happen first.

We don't want to strike....like most groups - we want a fair deal that's been negotiated. However - we won't be threatened, intimidated, or pushed aside. While this may have an unintended effect of galvonizing the Aviation sector - and we can hold our heads high for that - that was/is not the intent of this. Westjet has thought the same as other management groups over the years that they can just get their way with bad faith bargining crappy deals with no conciquences.

planenuts wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:47 am

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:23 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:17 am Exactly.

He will do nothing. He wanted to but he has neither the balls, the political capital, nor the support in parliament to break the law and subvert the strike.

WJ management had better get back to the table. Or are the amateur MBAs too busy throwing a tantrum to do the job.

Why should the union go back to the table? (Today)

My read, the more pressure, the better the deal. Let some pain happen first.

We don't want to strike....like most groups - we want a fair deal that's been negotiated. However - we won't be threatened, intimidated, or pushed aside. While this may have an unintended effect of galvonizing the Aviation sector - and we can hold our heads high for that - that was/is not the intent of this. Westjet has thought the same as other management groups over the years that they can just get their way with bad faith bargining crappy deals with no conciquences.

I am not a huge union fan all in all. Some of them (public sector) are crazy looney tunes. Like Fred Hahn PSAC.

But these guys? Strike with pride.

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:36 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:33 am

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:23 am

Why should the union go back to the table? (Today)

My read, the more pressure, the better the deal. Let some pain happen first.

Because it's their airline. AMEs and Pilots are the airline.

CEOs and executives come and go - I'm pretty sure that these ones will be going soon.

The AMEs only want good faith bargaining from management and to achieve their own goals, and whether it's today or tomorrow or next week, the pressure is on. Let them know that you're ready to save them with a deal right now - it's on them.

JT badly needs a win. Any win.

Apply enough pressure, he will order Onex to come generously to the table.

What kind of four dimensional chess are you playing to come to that conclusion?

1) Labour action is barely on the radar of political supporters. Otherwise they would be running as fast as they can away from the Conservatives who DO have a history of strike-breaking.

2) The NDP—in case you didn’t know—is heavily pro-labour and it’s doubtful that they would keep the coalition going over such an overt violation of labour rights.

3) If we want to look at labour in this country and the complete lack of significant strikes, sympathy strikes, wildcat strikes, and general strikes in spite of some of the most severe affordability crises in our nations history—Id say that JT is already “winning”.

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:08 pm

rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:36 am

altiplano wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:33 am

Because it's their airline. AMEs and Pilots are the airline.

CEOs and executives come and go - I'm pretty sure that these ones will be going soon.

The AMEs only want good faith bargaining from management and to achieve their own goals, and whether it's today or tomorrow or next week, the pressure is on. Let them know that you're ready to save them with a deal right now - it's on them.

JT badly needs a win. Any win.

Apply enough pressure, he will order Onex to come generously to the table.

What kind of four dimensional chess are you playing to come to that conclusion?

1) Labour action is barely on the radar of political supporters. Otherwise they would be running as fast as they can away from the Conservatives who DO have a history of strike-breaking.

2) The NDP—in case you didn’t know—is heavily pro-labour and it’s doubtful that they would keep the coalition going over such an overt violation of labour rights.

3) If we want to look at labour in this country and the complete lack of significant strikes, sympathy strikes, wildcat strikes, and general strikes in spite of some of the most severe affordability crises in our nations history—Id say that JT is already “winning”.

Oh my goodness. Invade any thread with a pro liberal, conservative hating comment barrage.

Edit. Lets answer the nonsense. Rain delay for Germany Denmark.

1. Liberals have been in power for 9 years. Stop the Harper bashing. No one cares. Seen the polls?

2. NDP will support the Liberals forever. They like power. Don’t care about anything else. Violating Labour rights by JT pressuring ONEX? Huh?

3. JT is winning with no strikes because every labour deal has been public sector, and he gives his friends there anything they want. Buying votes. He won’t even make them go back to work every day!

Just stop, Ok? Sheesh. Especially with these comments that make as much sense as Biden’s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qfKi9g76Hk

Even the Calgary Herald gets it...

The plain fact is that once again, the Liberals show they’re hopelessly inept at delivering basic functions of government.

In trying to avert a strike, they helped cause one. It doesn’t get dumber than that.

Id say it was the greedy corporate executives who led it to this point. The workers were going to strike due to the company not negotiating properly. Qu'ils mangent de la brioche Onex!

Liberals and their supporters here on this blog love Onex and all of the Elites, the eastern based powerful people. Pretty ugly to see.

These are the senior pilots that think only them deserve to make a living wage, not AME’s junior pilots or anyone else