D8 - 36 hour layovers?

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cavok9909
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D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by cavok9909 »

I've heard that some of their northern destinations (like Sudbury and Timmins) now have 36-hour layovers.

I can't imagine the pilots are too happy about this. Is this a temporary situation, or are there any plans to reduce the layover time?
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realtor360
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by realtor360 »

36-hour layovers can indeed be quite challenging... While such extended layovers might be a temporary solution to logistical issues, I hope that the airline is working on plans to reduce them and improve crew schedules...
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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

realtor360 wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:27 am 36-hour layovers can indeed be quite challenging... While such extended layovers might be a temporary solution to logistical issues, I hope that the airline is working on plans to reduce them and improve crew schedules...
Would the 36 hour layover count toward the maximum 17 days worked?
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by Canadaflyer46 »

dontcallmeshirley wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:31 pm
realtor360 wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:27 am 36-hour layovers can indeed be quite challenging... While such extended layovers might be a temporary solution to logistical issues, I hope that the airline is working on plans to reduce them and improve crew schedules...
Would the 36 hour layover count toward the maximum 17 days worked?
Of course. What do you think this is, Emirates?! :D
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BaldChewbacca
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by BaldChewbacca »

It's like the splits. Some people love them, some people hate them, some are indifferent. The people that hate them will be the loudest about it. Personally, I actually really enjoy the day in the hotel; they're my favourite pairings
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fliter
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by fliter »

36-hour layovers now exist for YTS, YAM, YQG, YSB. I personally like them: you get 4 hours of credit to chill in a hotel? Sign me up! Even Timmins is bearable in the summer. Windsor can be fantastic if you like the casino or want to scoot over to the U.S. side. The Sault hotel is one of the nicest in our whole network. And Sudbury is shockingly decent as well, with reasonable shopping in the area, walking trails, and a movie theatre. My impression is that people with small kids at home really appreciate a paid day away from home.
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Me262
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by Me262 »

I'd be so happy even with 24hrs.
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
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cdnavater
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by cdnavater »

CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:15 pm Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
Oh my god, how much koolaid have you drank!
That’s a day and a half at work for 4 credits, I also can assume you’re available for reassignment if they need you, how’s your family going to feel when you leave and now they need to find a hotel room on their own?
We had these at Jazz, not 36 but 24 hours, we called them donuts and nobody liked them, the book off was high, similar to stand ups
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twa22
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by twa22 »

I wouldn't mind the 36 hour layover, but not to any of the places listed, especially in the winter... maybe in the summer it might be nice a few times if you can get out and go exploring in the surrounding area, but after that it would get old fast. That said, kudos to those who enjoy them
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totalflyer
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by totalflyer »

cdnavater wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:25 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:15 pm Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
Oh my god, how much koolaid have you drank!
That’s a day and a half at work for 4 credits, I also can assume you’re available for reassignment if they need you, how’s your family going to feel when you leave and now they need to find a hotel room on their own?
We had these at Jazz, not 36 but 24 hours, we called them donuts and nobody liked them, the book off was high, similar to stand ups
Yes they could technically reassign you but for the most part they can’t because generally we do 1 flight in and 1 flight out of those towns/cities so would be a little hard to go flying with no airplane there for you to fly.

Also we are getting paid 4 hours credit for 24 hours of that 36 hours because we have pretty full days before and after.

Example

4 DAY PAIRING

DAY 1 - 5:04hrs credit
YTZ - EWR - YTZ - MDW

DAY 2 - 7:12hrs credit
MDW - YTZ - YQT - YTZ - YSB

DAY 3 - 4hrs credit
STANDOVER DAY

DAY 4 - 4:20hrs credit
YSB - YTZ - EWR - YTZ

So about 5 and a quarter hrs credit average a day on a 4 day pairing.

Doesn’t matter though because it looks like most are gone for September bid.
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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

totalflyer wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:26 pm Yes they could technically reassign you but for the most part they can’t because generally we do 1 flight in and 1 flight out of those towns/cities so would be a little hard to go flying with no airplane there for you to fly.
What's the reasoning for the layover? Is it a late arrival and then an early departure?
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

cdnavater wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:25 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:15 pm Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
Oh my god, how much koolaid have you drank!
That’s a day and a half at work for 4 credits, I also can assume you’re available for reassignment if they need you, how’s your family going to feel when you leave and now they need to find a hotel room on their own?
We had these at Jazz, not 36 but 24 hours, we called them donuts and nobody liked them, the book off was high, similar to stand ups
It’s tasty and sugary, and gets me all fuzzy feeling. You should try it. I’ll tell you something, it certainly beats the YQM standups. 4 credits to do nothing is still better than a double Newark. Cheers.
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Ozinater
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by Ozinater »

The 30-36 hour "stand overs" vary in popularity. I have talked to a number of pilots about them since they were introduced, and there are a few that actually like them. The majority (based on my limited sample size of people I've spoken with) seem to find them rather unpalatable. Even more so than splits. It seems the one thing people dislike more than the lack of sleep that comes with doing continuous duty is watching the paint dry in the hotel room they are stuck in for a day and a half. I'm glad there are some that like them. Considering that these stand over pairings are always showing up in open time, I think it's safe to say they've not been embraced by the pilot group as a whole. There aren't very many in the September pairings so they could be on the way out- who knows?

YQG is probably the easiest one to keep occupied, given the size of the city, proximity to restaurants, attractions, Detroit etc. YSB and YAM have enough near the hotel to keep yourself entertained for a day, and more if you're willing to rent a car or take a long-ish bus/cab ride. YTS can be a struggle, mainly in the winter. Many people have said it's because of the location of the hotel.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:15 pm Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
Aren't you on the E2?

"Paid vacay"- that's rich.
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PRM1
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by PRM1 »

cdnavater wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:25 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:15 pm Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
Oh my god, how much koolaid have you drank!
That’s a day and a half at work for 4 credits, I also can assume you’re available for reassignment if they need you, how’s your family going to feel when you leave and now they need to find a hotel room on their own?
We had these at Jazz, not 36 but 24 hours, we called them donuts and nobody liked them, the book off was high, similar to stand ups
It’s 12 credits…
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cdnavater
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by cdnavater »

PRM1 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 5:29 am
cdnavater wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:25 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:15 pm Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
Oh my god, how much koolaid have you drank!
That’s a day and a half at work for 4 credits, I also can assume you’re available for reassignment if they need you, how’s your family going to feel when you leave and now they need to find a hotel room on their own?
We had these at Jazz, not 36 but 24 hours, we called them donuts and nobody liked them, the book off was high, similar to stand ups
It’s 12 credits…
For the whole pairing or for the day?
Even if you go by duty rig, it should be better than 4 but two posters have indicated the layover is only 4 credits, so how do you end up at 12?
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PRM1
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by PRM1 »

Day 1 at least 4 credits
Day 2 standover 4 credits
Day 3 at least 4 credits
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cdnavater
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by cdnavater »

PRM1 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 1:31 pm Day 1 at least 4 credits
Day 2 standover 4 credits
Day 3 at least 4 credits
Yikes, for there to be a 36 hour layover and it be a three day pairing, I can assume you check in early on day one and check out late on day three
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BaldChewbacca
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by BaldChewbacca »

Depends on the pairing. If you check in early day one, and check out late on day three, you're going to have some really high credit because of the longer days. My last standover was total 17 credit.

If you have the opposite (late check-in day one, early check-out day three) then you have more time at home, but just likely the minimum 12 hour credit.
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flyinhigh
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by flyinhigh »

CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:15 pm Yup. Bring the wife and kids even. Not the fanciest of destinations but there’s things to do. Paid vacay.
LOLLOLOL, oh gawd this made me laugh. If I told my wife we were going on VACAY to YTS, or YSB I would most likely get beat. There is nothing good about a 36 hr layover. How about, we be efficient and people work less.

18 days a month is exhausting, plain and simple. If we are going to be a big boy airline, we need to start acting like one and these constant FOAG changes to the negative are not achieving that.

You may enjoy not having a home life to make the big bucks, but that time away is irreplaceable and I love my family, would gladly take an extra day at home over another raise.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by goingnowherefast »

Why can't you have both?
Another day at home AND a raise?

Net zero bargaining, sounds very ACPA-esque :?
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flyinhigh
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by flyinhigh »

goingnowherefast wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 2:21 pm Why can't you have both?
Another day at home AND a raise?

Net zero bargaining, sounds very ACPA-esque :?
Welcome to our illustrious FOAG. We got 2 pay bumps last year (all anti union folks point to this, “I got two pay raises last year, what did alpa get? “. You got that because they couldn’t attract pilots…) with concessions and nothing but concessions since.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by goingnowherefast »

Yikes. Two sayings come to mind.
Treat your employees right, and they don't need a union
Management gets the union they deserve.
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cdnavater
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by cdnavater »

flyinhigh wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:04 pm
goingnowherefast wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 2:21 pm Why can't you have both?
Another day at home AND a raise?

Net zero bargaining, sounds very ACPA-esque :?
Welcome to our illustrious FOAG. We got 2 pay bumps last year (all anti union folks point to this, “I got two pay raises last year, what did alpa get? “. You got that because they couldn’t attract pilots…) with concessions and nothing but concessions since.
What do you mean, concessions since?
Is your terms of employment constantly changing and not necessarily for the better?
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: D8 - 36 hour layovers?

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

flyinhigh wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:04 pm
goingnowherefast wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 2:21 pm Why can't you have both?
Another day at home AND a raise?

Net zero bargaining, sounds very ACPA-esque :?
Welcome to our illustrious FOAG. We got 2 pay bumps last year (all anti union folks point to this, “I got two pay raises last year, what did alpa get? “. You got that because they couldn’t attract pilots…) with concessions and nothing but concessions since.
What concessions?
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