What happened to Canada 3000 pilots? Where are you now?

[Core]

Reading up on some Canadian airline history....

Just wondering where the drivers from Canada 3000 ended up after their sudden collapse in 2001? There must have been maybe 800? I know a few stayed on the cargo side and became Cargojet, but what about the rest? Were groups absorbed anywhere else en mass or was it just a glut of ATPL's applying where they could at year 1 in that awful post-911 market?

Just been thinking about staff at Flair and Transat. So Lynx and Jetlines closed, but neither really represented any necessary capacity of any sort. I feel like Flair could also shut down soon and the capacity hole would be filled pretty quickly by everyone else. There's no market entrenchment or legacy. Awful things to think about and I don't wish it by any means, but better to be prepared than surprised.

But, Transat had been around forever, occupies a huge chunk of the Atlantic flying as well as the leisure market on the east side of the country. They would leave a huge hole in necessary capacity in both pilots and tails that couldn't be easily filled. Would this make it more likely for someone to simply take over the entire lot as a whole and continue operations if they hit bottom? Or perhaps someone like AC simply takes over the leases, repaints, and start hiring the thousands of senior staff into the basement? I wonder if that would even be allowed under anti-monopoly regulations.

[Gear Jerker]

I think the answer is a mixed bag, but a bunch work at WestJet and AC.

I understand your questions regarding Flair although I hope to be wrong and wish all the best for everyone working there.

I don't know where you're coming from with Transat, though? Pandemic was rough, and then AC's purchase of Transat wasn't allowed by, if I'm not mistaken, the competition bureau. But do you know something the rest of us don't, in terms of a possibility of the business suddenly failing? As far as I know Transat is a relatively stable company and good place to work.

Anything is possible, but I would think it would take some kind of cataclysmic Black Swan/Grey Rhino type of event, ie COVID or 9/11, to cause Transat to fail - whereas with Flair I think it's just about how long they can keep talking new investors into an interesting way to burn millions of dollars.

[Core]

Well, it's more spitballing. They're losing money right now but still have a good business. I don't think they're in an imminent failure position, they've just been fighting an uphill battle ever since covid.

It just got me thinking about what would happen to all the pilots and planes when they're needed everywhere right now, and been looking for a historic comparison. Canada 3000 is the closest in size but that happened in a time of poor economy and labour oversupply- very different from now.
Anyways, just a mental train that further got me thinking about what happened to all the C3000 guys at that time, they had a fleet of 50 planes, not just a little operation.

[cdnavater]

I think the answer is a mixed bag, but a bunch work at WestJet and AC.

I understand your questions regarding Flair although I hope to be wrong and wish all the best for everyone working there.

I don't know where you're coming from with Transat, though? Pandemic was rough, and then AC's purchase of Transat wasn't allowed by, if I'm not mistaken, the competition bureau. But do you know something the rest of us don't, in terms of a possibility of the business suddenly failing? As far as I know Transat is a relatively stable company and good place to work.

Anything is possible, but I would think it would take some kind of cataclysmic Black Swan/Grey Rhino type of event, ie COVID or 9/11, to cause Transat to fail - whereas with Flair I think it's just about how long they can keep talking new investors into an interesting way to burn millions of dollars.

Could be referring to this;

“Q3 results are out, and they're not good: https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/trans ... 00080.html Revenues are down despite load factors being up, EBITDA decreased by $73.5 million, net loss of $40 million vs profit of $57 million for the same quarter last year, negative free cash flow of $168 million , and they burned almost $210 million in cash and cash equivalents. They have $361.9 million in cash and cash equivalents remaining, but $792 million in debt and $1.5 billion in lease liabilities. The Pratt & Whitney compensation is in the form of credits for engine purchases, so that's not going to help them with liquidity. Their market cap is down to $70 million, and credit card processors and MROs are withholding larger deposits, so neither their investors nor their suppliers have confidence that they'll continue as a going concern.”

[prop2jet]

I know a few went to Transport, some went overseas Middle East and Far East...

[Gear Jerker]

I think the answer is a mixed bag, but a bunch work at WestJet and AC.

I understand your questions regarding Flair although I hope to be wrong and wish all the best for everyone working there.

I don't know where you're coming from with Transat, though? Pandemic was rough, and then AC's purchase of Transat wasn't allowed by, if I'm not mistaken, the competition bureau. But do you know something the rest of us don't, in terms of a possibility of the business suddenly failing? As far as I know Transat is a relatively stable company and good place to work.

Anything is possible, but I would think it would take some kind of cataclysmic Black Swan/Grey Rhino type of event, ie COVID or 9/11, to cause Transat to fail - whereas with Flair I think it's just about how long they can keep talking new investors into an interesting way to burn millions of dollars.

Could be referring to this;

“Q3 results are out, and they're not good: https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/trans ... 00080.html Revenues are down despite load factors being up, EBITDA decreased by $73.5 million, net loss of $40 million vs profit of $57 million for the same quarter last year, negative free cash flow of $168 million , and they burned almost $210 million in cash and cash equivalents. They have $361.9 million in cash and cash equivalents remaining, but $792 million in debt and $1.5 billion in lease liabilities. The Pratt & Whitney compensation is in the form of credits for engine purchases, so that's not going to help them with liquidity. Their market cap is down to $70 million, and credit card processors and MROs are withholding larger deposits, so neither their investors nor their suppliers have confidence that they'll continue as a going concern.”

I had no idea it was that bad.

[airway]

.

Just looking at their share price since the summer of 2020, it has averaged about $3-$4, but 2024 YTD has been downhill to $1.76 /share.


.

[20DMEYYZ]

i recall an ex Royal 310 fo flying the van for sontair in that recessionary period of time.

[BigQ]

Well, it's more spitballing. They're losing money right now but still have a good business. I don't think they're in an imminent failure position, they've just been fighting an uphill battle ever since covid.

It just got me thinking about what would happen to all the pilots and planes when they're needed everywhere right now, and been looking for a historic comparison. Canada 3000 is the closest in size but that happened in a time of poor economy and labour oversupply- very different from now.
Anyways, just a mental train that further got me thinking about what happened to all the C3000 guys at that time, they had a fleet of 50 planes, not just a little operation.

My brother in Christ, poor economy and labour oversupply is exactly what's going on right now in September 2024.

[MaxAuto]

Some are at Sunwing as well

[realtor360]

If Transat shuts down, it would leave a big gap in capacity, and AC might consider taking over leases and hiring staff. It’s delicate.

[wowaddict]

Emerates.

[SpyPilot]

9 blathering idiot posts in one day.

[redlaser]

They all have their drone pilot license and are flying drones over new jersey at night scaring the americans

[SpyPilot]

I, along with many others here, grow weary of your foolishness.