Failing CPL Flight Test

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avrat5
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Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by avrat5 »

Guys, I busted my CPL Flight test and partialled on my re test, how is this going to affect my future? Can the companies pull it up during the hiring process?
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shamrock104
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by shamrock104 »

Sometimes the question is asked during the interview process
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khedrei
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by khedrei »

I've never been asked but I have heard of people who have.

I had a guy partial his ppl and end up a great pilot.

I wouldnt worry about it. Especially if you pass everything else, multi, ifr, etc.

As far as I know, they can't legally get access to a CPL ride but they can ask if you've failed rides and I don't know if lying would be a good idea.

Fix the weak areas, Make sure to pass the partial, pick up the pieces and move on. Work on being more prepared for future rides.
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GetAGripen
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by GetAGripen »

Shit happens, almost everyone has failed some sort of ride at some point in their career. When it's coming out of your wallet and not a company's, it's less important. Reflect on why you failed and how you worked to pass it the next time, what you learned from the experience and how you'll avoid failures in the future, etc.
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Bede
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by Bede »

Will employers find out? Probably not and even if they do, they probably won't care.

May I ask though, was this a one off (or two off)? Or, have you struggled throughout your training? If the latter, you may want to reconsider if this profession is for you. It doesn't get easier.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

My experience with test failures as a pilot examiner is that they fall into 5 categories

1) Test-itis. Candidates have all the necessary skills and knowledge but fail themselves due to nerves. An effective pre flight test review and full mock flight test is vital for these candidates.

2) The brain fart. The candidate just has a momentary loss of concentration and does something wrong which results in a fail for that maneuver. I once had a candidate do a very nice soft field takeoff except the simulated field I had given them required them to use short field takeoff technique, DOH

3) Candidate isn't prepared for the flight test. This is unfortunately too common and is mostly on the instructor not the student.

4) The candidate isn't willing to put the effort in to meet the standard. For these candidates generally there will be numerous and obvious skill and knowledge gaps in all areas.

5) The candidate shouldn't be a pilot. For whatever reason they just don't have the traits necessary to be a safe pilot. These candidates will show up with much more than the minimum training times and the instructor just hopes they can scrape by on the day of the test. Shame on any instructor that recommends an unsuitable candidate instead if sitting them down and explaining the reality of their situation.

To the OP: Being honest with yourself and understanding which category you test fail falls in will determine how you should proceed.
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shamrock104
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by shamrock104 »

All good replies. It is probably better to try and find the root cause here. As mentioned it gets a little more difficult during company rides etc.
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Red_Comet
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by Red_Comet »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:28 am My experience with test failures as a pilot examiner is that they fall into 5 categories

1) Test-itis. Candidates have all the necessary skills and knowledge but fail themselves due to nerves. An effective pre flight test review and full mock flight test is vital for these candidates.

2) The brain fart. The candidate just has a momentary loss of concentration and does something wrong which results in a fail for that maneuver. I once had a candidate do a very nice soft field takeoff except the simulated field I had given them required them to use short field takeoff technique, DOH

3) Candidate isn't prepared for the flight test. This is unfortunately too common and is mostly on the instructor not the student.

4) The candidate isn't willing to put the effort in to meet the standard. For these candidates generally there will be numerous and obvious skill and knowledge gaps in all areas.

5) The candidate shouldn't be a pilot. For whatever reason they just don't have the traits necessary to be a safe pilot. These candidates will show up with much more than the minimum training times and the instructor just hopes they can scrape by on the day of the test. Shame on any instructor that recommends an unsuitable candidate instead if sitting them down and explaining the reality of their situation.

To the OP: Being honest with yourself and understanding which category you test fail falls in will determine how you should proceed.
I think this is missing one huge factor: the examiner. I've heard of examiners that just don't want to be there, and would rather be at home and do whatever it takes to get home as fast as possible. Showing up to the flight test sick as a dog, pushing the start time back the morning of so they can leave earlier, not interested in talking to the candidate at all (no introductions, straight to business) or throwing stupid trick questions left, right and center.

You would not believe the stories I've heard. A good instructor has a few good examiners who test to that instructor's teaching style. If you don't know your examiner, you are making a huge gamble.

Don't let anyone tell you examiners are all saints. It couldn't be the further from the truth. They have full power to fail you if they want, and the test standards are written so strictly that they can choose anything they want to fail you with. For example, how many of you have maintained centerline during the entire climb-out to circuit height in a Cessna 150? If you didn't...guess what, you failed your check ride! How many have been cut off by oblivious students from out of province who can't speak English and just do whatever they want in an MF? Guess what, that's a fail for failing to maintain spacing. Etc. etc.

Flight training done right is when instructors and examiners work together and see eye-to-eye on what should be tested and how. If you bring in random examiners, expect chaos. Talk to your instructor and ask them if they know the examiner and if you can meet them ahead of time. It makes a huge difference. Because I know for a fact examiners are not above taking 800$ to fail you on the ground if it means they can go home early. If they're not invested in your learning, they couldn't care less.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by rookiepilot »

General advice for flight tests that have served me well:

Nail the written portion. Study until your brain hurts. Be perfect.

This accomplishes 2 big things at the outset of a flight test:

1) relaxes you and builds your self confidence for the flight portion,

2) builds confidence in the examiner that you are ready for the test, and can meet the standard.

Nothing replaces a good first impression. Achieve this on the ground.

Can’t speak to any career ramifications the OP is asking about.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Red_Comet wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:47 pm
Big Pistons Forever wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:28 am My experience with test failures as a pilot examiner is that they fall into 5 categories

1) Test-itis. Candidates have all the necessary skills and knowledge but fail themselves due to nerves. An effective pre flight test review and full mock flight test is vital for these candidates.

2) The brain fart. The candidate just has a momentary loss of concentration and does something wrong which results in a fail for that maneuver. I once had a candidate do a very nice soft field takeoff except the simulated field I had given them required them to use short field takeoff technique, DOH

3) Candidate isn't prepared for the flight test. This is unfortunately too common and is mostly on the instructor not the student.

4) The candidate isn't willing to put the effort in to meet the standard. For these candidates generally there will be numerous and obvious skill and knowledge gaps in all areas.

5) The candidate shouldn't be a pilot. For whatever reason they just don't have the traits necessary to be a safe pilot. These candidates will show up with much more than the minimum training times and the instructor just hopes they can scrape by on the day of the test. Shame on any instructor that recommends an unsuitable candidate instead if sitting them down and explaining the reality of their situation.

To the OP: Being honest with yourself and understanding which category you test fail falls in will determine how you should proceed.
I think this is missing one huge factor: the examiner. I've heard of examiners that just don't want to be there, and would rather be at home and do whatever it takes to get home as fast as possible. Showing up to the flight test sick as a dog, pushing the start time back the morning of so they can leave earlier, not interested in talking to the candidate at all (no introductions, straight to business) or throwing stupid trick questions left, right and center.

You would not believe the stories I've heard. A good instructor has a few good examiners who test to that instructor's teaching style. If you don't know your examiner, you are making a huge gamble.

Don't let anyone tell you examiners are all saints. It couldn't be the further from the truth. They have full power to fail you if they want, and the test standards are written so strictly that they can choose anything they want to fail you with. For example, how many of you have maintained centerline during the entire climb-out to circuit height in a Cessna 150? If you didn't...guess what, you failed your check ride! How many have been cut off by oblivious students from out of province who can't speak English and just do whatever they want in an MF? Guess what, that's a fail for failing to maintain spacing. Etc. etc.

Flight training done right is when instructors and examiners work together and see eye-to-eye on what should be tested and how. If you bring in random examiners, expect chaos. Talk to your instructor and ask them if they know the examiner and if you can meet them ahead of time. It makes a huge difference. Because I know for a fact examiners are not above taking 800$ to fail you on the ground if it means they can go home early. If they're not invested in your learning, they couldn't care less.
Personally what I see is the exact opposite. Examiners won't fail students because they will get a reputation as being "hard" so instructors will steer their students away from them to examiners who are easy because their candidates almost never fail. . The flight test isn't rocket science. The flight test guide has very specific performance criteria so there should be no surprise on a flight test. When I do a flight test I don't colour outside the lines. I start every test wanting the candidate to be successful, but at the end of the day they have to meet the performance criteria. If they don't I have to mark them accordingly and if that result in a fail then it is on them not me.
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Red_Comet
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Re: Failing CPL Flight Test

Post by Red_Comet »

Personally what I see is the exact opposite. Examiners won't fail students because they will get a reputation as being "hard" so instructors will steer their students away from them to examiners who are easy because their candidates almost never fail. . The flight test isn't rocket science. The flight test guide has very specific performance criteria so there should be no surprise on a flight test. When I do a flight test I don't colour outside the lines. I start every test wanting the candidate to be successful, but at the end of the day they have to meet the performance criteria. If they don't I have to mark them accordingly and if that result in a fail then it is on them not me.
Of course instructors are going to pick and choose examiners, especially since their rating is on the line and with horror stories of shitty examiners abound. But they don't always have a choice as examiners are hard to find in certain regions. A good examiner will use their judgement and try to follow the criteria, but in reality they are normal people and behave as such. If an examiner is having a shit day, doesn't like you for some reason, or if you're just unlucky, you'll be screwed. I've seen it happen too many times for it to just be the odd "bad" examiner. I will say this is far less common in larger schools that have training standards and in-house examiners who are all aligned with regards to expectations. The horror stories I mention come from freelance examiners who do a test here and there as a side gig, and generally are not passionate about their job aside from the cash and power-trip that goes along with it.

As with anything in life, buyer beware. I don't recommend anyone to do a ride with an examiner they haven't met and chatted with. We are pretty good at gauging whether we get along with people pretty quickly, so even a ten minute conversation can make all the difference.
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