Best spot for a YYC based pilot

[Canadianpilot2024]

Now that the new TA has been reached. What would be your recommendations for a pilot who lives in Calgary.

WJ, AC, Porter, …Jazz?

Financially I’m in pretty good shape, with a good chunk of the mortgage paid off here in Calgary.

I’d prioritize QOL and not commuting over bigger metal and quicker upgrades (with shitty schedules)

My gut is telling me WJ, even with the merger stuff. But Air Canada seems to be the final destination for a lot of pilots.

There’s also Porter who have a fantastic product and great ownership and I’ve also heard great things from Jazz and they offer a YYC base.

[PA-18]

Air Canada. For the simple fact you will have the highest job security in Canada. And multiple fleet types. Between AC and WJ, Both are gonna have you start on reserve so QOL is a wash between the 2. The way Boeing is going, WJ growth is non existent for the foreseeable future. Great company however if you can get in. I don’t even think they are hiring. With the merger around the corner, it could be a couple years away unless they start seeing some more fins show up

So that leaves you with AC or porter. Porter is a great product but not sure what it wants to be when it grows up. They are in a unique growth stage currently. Sounds like a great job, but can you accept the risk if the growth doesn’t pan out?
Jazz would be good if you like regional flying, but that gets old after a while.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Air Canada. For the simple fact you will have the highest job security in Canada. And multiple fleet types. Between AC and WJ, Both are gonna have you start on reserve so QOL is a wash between the 2. The way Boeing is going, WJ growth is non existent for the foreseeable future. Great company however if you can get in. I don’t even think they are hiring. With the merger around the corner, it could be a couple years away unless they start seeing some more fins show up

So that leaves you with AC or porter. Porter is a great product but not sure what it wants to be when it grows up. They are in a unique growth stage currently. Sounds like a great job, but can you accept the risk if the growth doesn’t pan out?
Jazz would be good if you like regional flying, but that gets old after a while.

Don’t do jazz. That’s all I can say

[Me262]

Air Canada. For the simple fact you will have the highest job security in Canada. And multiple fleet types. Between AC and WJ, Both are gonna have you start on reserve so QOL is a wash between the 2. The way Boeing is going, WJ growth is non existent for the foreseeable future. Great company however if you can get in. I don’t even think they are hiring. With the merger around the corner, it could be a couple years away unless they start seeing some more fins show up

So that leaves you with AC or porter. Porter is a great product but not sure what it wants to be when it grows up. They are in a unique growth stage currently. Sounds like a great job, but can you accept the risk if the growth doesn’t pan out?
Jazz would be good if you like regional flying, but that gets old after a while.

Don’t do jazz. That’s all I can say

lol

[Canadaflyer46]

If you go to AC you’ll spend your entire career commuting. That might be ok as a senior widebody FO, but as a new hire you’ll be gone 20+ days every month.
You could take AC and accept the fact you’ll have to move for QOL. I’m not sure on what the hiring future at WJ looks like, but many of us picked WJ because we have our lives in YYC. My best guess for an upgrade for a new hire would be 15-20 years, but you can make a comfortable living as a senior FO and I’d recommend WJ to someone that’s determined not to leave Calgary.

[thepoors]

If you want to live in Calgary and prioritize QOL (and your sanity) there is only one option: WJ. Commuting is hell, especially at AC.

[Inverted2]

As for Jazz who knows how long the YYC base will last so there’s that too.

[ritzcracker01]

Canadian North

[fixnfly]

Canadian North

Canadian North is a decent option as well with their 737 operation but it's all oil sands flying and charters out of YYC and there is no growth; so long upgrade times. Who knows how long that will last. Sunwest or some other company could take those contracts in time. The one advantage is they have a monopoly over the arctic flying so if you don't mind deadheading to yellowknife and flying the ATR to Taloyoak, then you'll always have a job.

[flying4dollars]

Air Canada. For the simple fact you will have the highest job security in Canada. And multiple fleet types. Between AC and WJ, Both are gonna have you start on reserve so QOL is a wash between the 2. The way Boeing is going, WJ growth is non existent for the foreseeable future. Great company however if you can get in. I don’t even think they are hiring. With the merger around the corner, it could be a couple years away unless they start seeing some more fins show up

So that leaves you with AC or porter. Porter is a great product but not sure what it wants to be when it grows up. They are in a unique growth stage currently. Sounds like a great job, but can you accept the risk if the growth doesn’t pan out?
Jazz would be good if you like regional flying, but that gets old after a while.

Don’t do jazz. That’s all I can say

+1

What are your priorities? Do you want widebody flying? Quick upgrade? Go to AC and do it soon. Widebody and don't care about upgrade? Go to WJ. Ok with NB and quick upgrade? Porter or Flair. It really depends on your priorities. What is great is that you DO have options.

[Airbusses]

If you want to live in Calgary and prioritize QOL (and your sanity) there is only one option: WJ. Commuting is hell, especially at AC.

I commute, I don't think it's "hell." Depends on where you're commuting from I suppose. That said I do so from a base that is supposedly terrible.

[MaxAuto]

Go to WestJet. Commuting will suck the life out of you and make you hate your career choice. WJ is short on pilots even with the merger. Alex said it himself in one of the latest townhalls with employees. WJ will see retirements eventually approaching the 2030s. So if you have time before age 65, I would choose WestJet.

[ZBBYLW]

I cant speak for WS. At AC some YYC types seem to make a great go of it. 787 RP or FO doing the western arrow flying, or 320/737 FO and you'll be able to get many nights at home. You'd still be a commuter though and there are 100s of guys from YYC.

[jpilot77]

Well on the WestJet part of this forum someone posted that WestJet won’t be hiring during 2025 due to the Sunwing merger.

[nohojob]

WJ is still having a GS in November, yes a planned pause in 2025.
So my guess is if they were anticipating being overstaffed, they would have stopped hiring in 2024.
The pause in 2025 makes sense since they're integrating about 500 pilots from swg.

It will use a lot of training ressources. Initial courses might be resuming shortly after that.

[Arnie Pye]

Air Canada. For the simple fact you will have the highest job security in Canada. And multiple fleet types. Between AC and WJ, Both are gonna have you start on reserve so QOL is a wash between the 2. The way Boeing is going, WJ growth is non existent for the foreseeable future. Great company however if you can get in. I don’t even think they are hiring. With the merger around the corner, it could be a couple years away unless they start seeing some more fins show up

So that leaves you with AC or porter. Porter is a great product but not sure what it wants to be when it grows up. They are in a unique growth stage currently. Sounds like a great job, but can you accept the risk if the growth doesn’t pan out?
Jazz would be good if you like regional flying, but that gets old after a while.

Don’t do jazz. That’s all I can say

+1

What are your priorities? Do you want widebody flying? Quick upgrade? Go to AC and do it soon. Widebody and don't care about upgrade? Go to WJ. Ok with NB and quick upgrade? Porter or Flair. It really depends on your priorities. What is great is that you DO have options.

Flair is not hiring or expanding in the west. Management has said Flair is overstaffed by 35 Captains and any upgrades will only happen IF we get some additional tails. If you want a quick upgrade it is in Toronto or maybe Vancouver but ONLY if we get more planes. Both require a commute and you will still be on reserve for some time to come.

[Canadianpilot2024]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I currently am at AC and the commuting is pretty brutal. Financially and mentally.

My costs are around $3000 a month with a modest crash pad (split a 2 bedroom downtown) and Ubers/transit/flights. Currently taking home about $4500, with some modest raises on the horizon which will help.

Also, Calgary is super senior with about 1/3 of yvr base commuting from there so it’s pretty tough getting yyc layovers. At least with my seniority.

Also correct about WJ, no initials planned for 2025 but I can see that changing maybe Q3/Q4?

Porter seems like the only real option, as there seems to be some strong no’s towards jazz haha.

Hoping for a massive bid either November or December and maybe try for a WB FO spot, or at the very least get off reserve. The last year has been pretty stagnant with growth out west.

Bidding down to a RP position is 300 days and from what I’ve heard and they’ll wait till the last day.

Could upgrade in a couple years on the 737, then back to a rough schedule. But could maybe consider buying a house out in mission or chilliwack at least (bring on a the $8000 mortgage)

Buyer beware haha

[crystalpizza]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I currently am at AC and the commuting is pretty brutal. Financially and mentally.

My costs are around $3000 a month with a modest crash pad (split a 2 bedroom downtown) and Ubers/transit/flights. Currently taking home about $4500, with some modest raises on the horizon which will help.

Also, Calgary is super senior with about 1/3 of yvr base commuting from there so it’s pretty tough getting yyc layovers. At least with my seniority.

Also correct about WJ, no initials planned for 2025 but I can see that changing maybe Q3/Q4?

Porter seems like the only real option, as there seems to be some strong no’s towards jazz haha.

Hoping for a massive bid either November or December and maybe try for a WB FO spot, or at the very least get off reserve. The last year has been pretty stagnant with growth out west.

Bidding down to a RP position is 300 days and from what I’ve heard and they’ll wait till the last day.

Could upgrade in a couple years on the 737, then back to a rough schedule. But could maybe consider buying a house out in mission or chilliwack at least (bring on a the $8000 mortgage)

Buyer beware haha

How many years do you have at AC if you don't mind me asking?

I'm a year in and spent it all so far commuting from YYC as an RP on reserve. While tedious, it's surprisingly not nearly as bad as one would expect looking at it from the outside. Commuting by air in and of itself is never any worse than driving on Deerfoot to the airport at 5 PM. I would just recommend avoiding reserve at any cost only because of the various annoying expenses. Pending the next bid, I'm open to giving the NB a try with everything the new contract will bring as long as I can for sure hold a block.

[Canadianpilot2024]

It’s been about a year.

From the skippers who came from WB FO/RP positions to go left seat on the 737, a lot have said that it’s like working for two separate companies. WB life seems a lot more civilized.

If you can hold a block, life would probably be better for sure. Just get a cheap crash pad close to yvr for those pairings you can’t fly in for the same day.

Like I said though, I’ve moved maybe 3 spots up in the last year. There was something like 30 open spots before contract negots started though

[Aerkavo]

Commuting will suck the life out of you and make you hate your career choice.

This is the kind of statement that has the potential to lead many people astray.

I'm a commuter. I live in a secondary city and commute to YYZ. My house costs about 1/3 of what a similar house would cost in a major city. I have waterfront property and am close to the Trans Canada trail. Every single day I have off I am on the water boating, canoeing or swimming. In the winter we skate and cross country ski on the lake. If I'm not doing that I am biking on the trail. Yes, I pay the price to commute but there is no question that I have a better quality of life.

Look, there are thousands of possible permutations; wife works or doesn't, kids involved in sports or not, what city, what position you have bid. It goes on and on. The blanket statement that "commuting sucks" does not capture all the considerations.

In my case, and in the case of my fellow crashpad buddies, commuting offers far more benefits than actually living in Toronto or Vancouver.

It's true, commuting sucks. Living in Barrie and driving the 400 to work every day sucks. Paying big city prices for your home and insurance sucks.

I've done the math and figured that I could buy a full fare confirmed seat 4 times a month and still be financially ahead of actually living in the GTA - that's how much cheaper it is to buy a house and live in my city vs living in the GTA.

Don't be so quick to dismiss commuting as an option.

[Inverted2]

Commuting is ok for some but I’ve seen colleagues almost in tears after missing the last flight of the night home to Y** and debating whether to go blow $200 on a hotel room or sleep on the crew room couch for 6 hours.

It is what you make of it but if you add up the extra nights away from home and expenses it’s not a good long term thing if you can avoid it.

[Canadianpilot2024]

I would also argue that there’s quite a bit of flights between yyc and yvr. With that you also have a healthy amount of commuters. Flights tend to be sold out or close to it with a dozen or so people listed on standby on average.

Typically you get on or catch the jump but I wouldn’t say it’s stress free commuting, not to mention the time waiting at both airports and the costs involved.

Being on reserve on a best fit system, you tend to get called out or assigned on open time majority of the time.

Reserve is scheduled for 18 days a month. Throw in a couple extra days for travelling, you could easily be away from home 20+ days a month.

On a block it’s 16, you could bring that number down a bit more from 20 if you could bid later departures early arrivals.

WB would be the way to go it seems for a commuter. Or move.

[flying4dollars]

Hoping for a massive bid either November or December and maybe try for a WB FO spot, or at the very least get off reserve. The last year has been pretty stagnant with growth out west.

Bidding down to a RP position is 300 days and from what I’ve heard and they’ll wait till the last day.

Bids have been stagnant because of the uncertainty with the contract. That's settled, next bid will be in December (confirmed) and will be a big one with a lot of movement I suspect. New rules also are max 240 days for a down-bid and they cannot keep you in limbo anymore. So I'd be willing to bet that bidding WB RP will be achievable for someone with your seniority. Now that we know you're already 1 year in at AC, given your fortuitous financial situation (nicely done by the way), I'd stay stick it out. We still need another 1000 pilots. You won't move up that quickly anywhere else, except maybe Porter if you could even hold YYC by the time they get a base going there. Westjet sure, if you can get YYC great, but are you ok sitting right seat 737 or 787 for 8-10 years before being able to upgrade (in YYC at that)? If so sure you could bounce and go there but I think you're total financial position would be better at AC, especially if you decide to upgrade in a couple years.

Hope that info helps

[co-joe]

Commuting eats you soul.

[Canadianpilot2024]

Appreciate the insight! Thank you.

My friends at Porter said there aren’t any official plans for a Calgary base, but it kind of seems inevitable.

But big red opening a yyc base also seems to make sense (maybe with rouge) but I'm hearing that’s unlikely.

Blink twice if there’s a porter base coming in 2025 haha. I won’t tell anyone.