Big Crab Angle

[pelmet]

Unknown for sure what happened in this case, but assuming that the instruments are showing you as being on track for the runway, best to already have in your mind that you will have to have an unusual sight picture in the window when becoming visual and to ignore the sudden instinctive feeling that a big heading correction is necessary to align. The lower the breakout height(ILS to 200'), the more critical it is.

C-FECI, an ATR-42-320 operated by Calm Air International LP, was conducting flight CAV224 from
Rankin Inlet Airport (CYRT), NU, to Baker Lake Airport (CYBK), NU. While conducting the RNAV
approach for Runway 16 at CYBK, the aircraft encountered 50 knot winds when flying from the
initial approach waypoint to the intermediate approach waypoint. When the aircraft turned final, the
winds slowly decreased. The pilot flying initially had difficulty spotting the runway due to the large
crab angle and moderate rain. The aircraft crossed the threshold at about 50 feet, flared, and the
touchdown was slightly left of the center of the runway. The aircraft drifted to the left side of the
runway and made contact with 2 runway lights. The aircraft taxied to the terminal where a post
flight inspection revealed damage to the left main landing gear door and weight on wheel switch.

...from TSB

[goingnowherefast]

Sounds like a crosswind landing near the limit that didn't quite go as planned. With a narrow main gear stance, apparently the ATR is a bit of a handful in a strong crosswind. Not quite the stable shopping cart gear of the Dash-8.

The lesson here is be mindful of the crosswind and apply crosswind techniques appropriate to the aircraft type you're flying.

[Eric Janson]

I see similar from time to time in IFR conditions with crosswind.

As soon as people see the runway they turn towards it.
The wind then blows them through the centreline and now they need even more crab to get back on the centreline.
There isn't always the time or distance to do this.
A go-around is always an option if things aren't working out.

The correct thing to do - absolutely nothing! Just a correction for the crosswind below about one hundred feet.

When visual you can put the aircraft over the upwind edge of the runway - makes it easier to end up on the centreline when correcting for crosswind.

[pelmet]

I see similar from time to time in IFR conditions with crosswind.

As soon as people see the runway they turn towards it.
The wind then blows them through the centreline and now they need even more crab to get back on the centreline.
There isn't always the time or distance to do this.
A go-around is always an option if things aren't working out.

The correct thing to do - absolutely nothing! Just a correction for the crosswind below about one hundred feet.

When visual you can put the aircraft over the upwind edge of the runway - makes it easier to end up on the centreline when correcting for crosswind.

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

(Apologies for the multiple pos - I can't delete them. Mods - can you correct please. Thanks)

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.

[Eric Janson]

I know it sounds strange but I almost wonder if it makes sense to think in advance that you will actually turn a bit more into the wind once visual(or at least have that instinct). At worst, you might end slightly upwind(although probably not) and one can make a minor correction back toward the centreline.

With large Jets putting the cockpit over the upwind runway edge has your main wheels close to the centreline. When you align the aircraft you are exactly where you want to be. Works really well.

In the opposite case your wheels will be close to the runway edge - everything gets more difficult.

Nicely shown here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtkcs ... rgospotter

People also don't understand what happens when directional control is lost. With a left crosswind the aircraft will weathercock into the wind (left turn) and exit on the left side of the runway. Most people think the aircraft will drift right.