YYZ inefficiency

[flyinhigh]

Hey,
Hoping someone can answer this. Back in the day we ran T/O and Landings North side, Land 24L/06R and T/O 24R/06L which worked swimmingly. Never had to due extended downwinds, was quite efficient.

Now it’s T/O north side, Land south side. Doesn’t make sense as we constantly see extended downwinds.

Why the change?

[nrgxlr8tr]

Staffing

[CaptDukeNukem]

Staffing

I’m more curious about why we get issued massive slowdown and vectors only to be sped up and given a shortcut from the next sector. Speed up, slow down, vectors for spacing, direct DUTIR or (whatever DTW waypoint) best forward, no restrictions.

[rookiepilot]

So you guys TO following the 401 instead of over my house?

Works for me.

[nrgxlr8tr]

Staffing

I’m more curious about why we get issued massive slowdown and vectors only to be sped up and given a shortcut from the next sector. Speed up, slow down, vectors for spacing, direct DUTIR or (whatever DTW waypoint) best forward, no restrictions.

We can only talk to one person at a time. Whether that's a plane or the next sector. I give you what works for me, the next sector gives you what works for them. If I were to cut you direct into the next sector that's not within a sector agreement I would have to call them up on the hotline, during which neither of us can talk to another plane or sector.

[A346Dude]

When was back in the day? With the exception of COVID, traffic has generally gone up year over year. Meanwhile the number of rules ATC has to follow has gone up, and the number of controllers has been steady or gone down.

There is only so much pavement (06R/24L was completed over 2 decades ago) and an increasing number of planes. You can either fly over the airport and do an 8 mile final, or not fly overhead and do a 15 mile final. Ultimately it's the same number of track miles.

[Henry Flies]

I wish the Canadian controllers did a field trip to the bigger USA ATC centers to see what being efficient is all about. "Porter, follow the traffic" is better than saying, "Porter, taxi B, A, NC, hold short of runway 04L"

[DHC-1 Jockey]

I wish the Canadian controllers did a field trip to the bigger USA ATC centers to see what being efficient is all about. "Porter, follow the traffic" is better than saying, "Porter, taxi B, A, NC, hold short of runway 04L"

True, but the FAA has procedures that their controllers are allowed to do that aren't allowed ANYWHERE else in the world, and those procedures require much more monitoring than other countries' procedures.

Some examples:
- The FAA is allowed to line up an aircraft on a runway where an aircraft on final already has a landing clearance.
- The FAA is allowed to give a landing clearance with an aircraft already holding in position.
- The FAA is allowed to give a takeoff clearance to an aircraft while there is still an aircraft in front of it on its own takeoff roll (I think the first departure needs to be anticipated to be 6000' down the runway when the second aircraft starts the roll). If the first aircraft aborts, the controller needs to make a split-second decision to recognize what is happening and tell the second aircraft to also abort before they ram into the back of the first aircraft.

- These procedures increase efficiency for sure, but they come at the cost of a much greater number of near-misses per movenemt compared to Canada and elsewhere, and it's often only due to the pilots being aware of the situation that disaster was averted. Think of the incident at Austin where in low-vis conditions, FedEx was cleared to land, and then Southwest was cleared to takeoff on the same runway before FedEx landed. The only reason there wasn't a crash was because the FedEx pilots went around on their own. The controller's actions, while not the best decision, were still legal.

Just because the FAA can do it "faster," doesn't mean it's safer.