Cost of Commuting

[lowoleo22]

Why is it that we have to pay exorbitant fees to jump seat in our own country when US pilots get to travel to work for free? Is there anyway ALPA could lobby for this?

[C-GGGQ]

Its free on my own airline?

[cdnavater]

Its free on my own airline?

I don’t understand the question mark, do you not know if it is free on your own airline?

The fact is, on Jazz flights we have a “policy” to occupy the jumpseat and then and only then is it free!
The problems with this is, only one free seat available, only available on flights operated by Jazz which many commuters don’t have the option or it is only available seasonally or certain times that don’t necessarily work for the commute.
In the U.S, you basically walk up to the gate, show them your ID and get a free ride to work, of course it’s stand-by so if a seat exists but this is how it should be.
I believe WJ used to list the crew as extra crew to give a free ride to work but the caveat was you had to be available to work, not sure exactly why but that is no longer the case!

[Handover]

In the U.S., pilots don’t pay airport fees when they jumpseat because it’s seen as a necessary part of the job, not a passenger perk. In Canada? We get slapped with all the same fees and taxes as passengers—Air Traveller Security Charge, Airport Improvement Fees, and sometimes even more. Why? Because Canadian airports treat pilots like revenue passengers instead of essential workers.

The U.S. model works because their unions fought to make jumpseating an operational necessity, not a taxable benefit. Meanwhile, in Canada, airports and the government see every seat as a potential cash grab.

Now that ALPA represents all major airline pilots in Canada, we actually have a shot at fixing this. They need to:

• Push Transport Canada and airports to recognize jumpseating as essential
• Pressure airlines to fight for waivers (because they benefit from pilots commuting)
• Negotiate exemptions at major airport (like the U.S. model)
• Coordinate with U.S. ALPA to align policies across North America
• Raise public & industry awareness—most people don’t even know pilots get taxed like this

This is the best chance we’ve had to fix the jumpseat tax mess in Canada. ALPA’s got the numbers—time to make it happen.

[VFS]

I’ve ran the number in the past, rough estimate for a 30 year career in the airlines commuting all of that time. Flights/hotels/meal, etc. I figure with inflation would be about 750,000$

[Handover]

I’ve ran the number in the past, rough estimate for a 30 year career in the airlines commuting all of that time. Flights/hotels/meal, etc. I figure with inflation would be about 750,000$

The total estimated cost for all commuting pilots in Canada, assuming 1,500 pilots each spend $750,000 on commuting, would be $1.125 billion.

And that there answers the question why we pay. Because we are also the product in doing our jobs

[co-joe]

I’ve ran the number in the past, rough estimate for a 30 year career in the airlines commuting all of that time. Flights/hotels/meal, etc. I figure with inflation would be about 750,000$

I was able to keep it between $700-1000/ month most months, a few times I was around $1200/ month. Your estimate is over 2k a month which seems on the high side.

[mijbil]

Concur wholeheartedly with the sentiments. So what to do about it? Who do you convince? The airports love their AIFs. It's how they can afford jade Haida war canoe sculptures in YVR (yet run out de ice fluid in winter) or an international departures area in YYC big enough to house a small blimp. What is the heating cost on that?
I think Handover has it. We are the product. Only way to solve it may be to vote with your feet and find another career. Does the government care? I doubt it? Could they be made to care? Only with support of airlines I suspect. Beancounters who run airlines? Nope. They just care that you show up and how you do it is your problem. So much for help from them.
Perhaps when more airplanes get parked, then the beancounter may sit up and pay attention. I note Encore seems to be at about half strength from my unofficial poll when I go up front to say hello when commuting. Jazz is the same. I look at reduced frequency on Jazz as an indicator.
How did the Yanks do it? I don't know. I would like ALPA to actually make a fuss for the extra 0.5% I am giving them now (WG to WS rates for union dues were 1.35% at WG and now 1.85% at WS).
Does ALPA care? They care about that 1.85%. After that?
Great sentiment. How will this get to reality?
Only a shortage affecting profits will make them (beancounters) sit up and pay attention.

[JBI]

As a former commuter, the whole thing is a mess.

First item, in the US, the FAA has capped Airport Improvement fees at $4.50. In Canada, because of the "not-for-profit" Airport Authorities who still have to pay rent to the Federal Government, there's no desire for Governments to cap the amount of AIFs that airports can charge. It should be noted that multiple Governments, both Conservative and Liberal, have let this system continue (started under Mulroney, the Chretien, Martin, Harper and Trudeau Jr. all supported it).

The next issue, is that airlines get a 7% processing fee. So yes, YWG charges a ridiculous $38 AIF, but AC/WJ/Flair all get $2.66 per passenger for "processing" the fee. Continuing to pick on YWG, they average 11,800 pax a day. At $38 a person, over 365 days, the airlines get $11 million from YWG alone to "process" the AIFs. Why rock that gravy train?

Finally, in the US there seems to be an historical understanding of aircrew's necessity to commute. Perhaps because of the lack of large cities or perhaps because the Canadian Industry does see less mergers, base closures etc, it's way less accepted here.

At the end of the day, all the parties have their hands in each others' pockets and no one wants to take a reasonable position when it comes to AIF and commuting aircrew. Airlines make money from them from the airports, airports make money from them and crew, and the gov't just sees airports as cash cows instead of infrastructure that spurs economic growth.

While WestJet used to have the "Available Crew Member" option, it was removed because (according to the company) it was going to cause issues with the new duty regs and acclimatization. I remain unconvinced that that's the main issue.

[Handover]

Exactly. This whole thing runs like a textbook mafia racket, and we’re the ones getting shaken down.

The airports? They’re the Dons, setting AIFs however they want because they know there’s no regulation to stop them. The government? That’s the Godfather, taking their cut while pretending to be uninvolved. The airlines? The Capos, making sure the racket runs smoothly by skimming their percentage off the top.

And us? The pilots? We’re the marks—the ones they keep squeezing, knowing we don’t have an easy way to push back. Need to commute? Pay up. Need reasonable policies to get to work? Too bad. Every party involved is making money off this, and none of them have any reason to change it.

But here’s the thing about a mafia operation: it only works as long as people keep paying. The moment people stand up and stop playing along, the whole thing starts to crack. That’s what we need to do. Start parking planes. Stop letting them exploit us. Make them feel it where it hurts—their bottom line.

And for the pilots who think this doesn’t affect them? Just wait. These people will always find new ways to extract more money and take more from you. That’s how this works. A union isn’t just about fighting the fires in front of us—it’s about shutting down the whole racket before they find new ways to squeeze us even harder.

The only way to win against an operation like this is to refuse to play the game.

[canadianfly]

It seems like this government rental thing played a descent part in the downing of Lynx and Jetlines.

[bobcaygeon]

As a former commuter, the whole thing is a mess.

First item, in the US, the FAA has capped Airport Improvement fees at $4.50. In Canada, because of the "not-for-profit" Airport Authorities who still have to pay rent to the Federal Government, there's no desire for Governments to cap the amount of AIFs that airports can charge. It should be noted that multiple Governments, both Conservative and Liberal, have let this system continue (started under Mulroney, the Chretien, Martin, Harper and Trudeau Jr. all supported it).

The next issue, is that airlines get a 7% processing fee. So yes, YWG charges a ridiculous $38 AIF, but AC/WJ/Flair all get $2.66 per passenger for "processing" the fee. Continuing to pick on YWG, they average 11,800 pax a day. At $38 a person, over 365 days, the airlines get $11 million from YWG alone to "process" the AIFs. Why rock that gravy train?

Finally, in the US there seems to be an historical understanding of aircrew's necessity to commute. Perhaps because of the lack of large cities or perhaps because the Canadian Industry does see less mergers, base closures etc, it's way less accepted here.

At the end of the day, all the parties have their hands in each others' pockets and no one wants to take a reasonable position when it comes to AIF and commuting aircrew. Airlines make money from them from the airports, airports make money from them and crew, and the gov't just sees airports as cash cows instead of infrastructure that spurs economic growth.

While WestJet used to have the "Available Crew Member" option, it was removed because (according to the company) it was going to cause issues with the new duty regs and acclimatization. I remain unconvinced that that's the main issue.

YWG has 11,500 pax departing per day? That's 63 full Max 8's per day. Wow, I must be lucky not to go thru screening when they depart. No wonder the Tim's line so long. That # looks like it may include arrivals/departure but even then....

[JBI]

As a former commuter, the whole thing is a mess.

First item, in the US, the FAA has capped Airport Improvement fees at $4.50. In Canada, because of the "not-for-profit" Airport Authorities who still have to pay rent to the Federal Government, there's no desire for Governments to cap the amount of AIFs that airports can charge. It should be noted that multiple Governments, both Conservative and Liberal, have let this system continue (started under Mulroney, the Chretien, Martin, Harper and Trudeau Jr. all supported it).

The next issue, is that airlines get a 7% processing fee. So yes, YWG charges a ridiculous $38 AIF, but AC/WJ/Flair all get $2.66 per passenger for "processing" the fee. Continuing to pick on YWG, they average 11,800 pax a day. At $38 a person, over 365 days, the airlines get $11 million from YWG alone to "process" the AIFs. Why rock that gravy train?

Finally, in the US there seems to be an historical understanding of aircrew's necessity to commute. Perhaps because of the lack of large cities or perhaps because the Canadian Industry does see less mergers, base closures etc, it's way less accepted here.

At the end of the day, all the parties have their hands in each others' pockets and no one wants to take a reasonable position when it comes to AIF and commuting aircrew. Airlines make money from them from the airports, airports make money from them and crew, and the gov't just sees airports as cash cows instead of infrastructure that spurs economic growth.

While WestJet used to have the "Available Crew Member" option, it was removed because (according to the company) it was going to cause issues with the new duty regs and acclimatization. I remain unconvinced that that's the main issue.

YWG has 11,500 pax departing per day? That's 63 full Max 8's per day. Wow, I must be lucky not to go thru screening when they depart. No wonder the Tim's line so long. That # looks like it may include arrivals/departure but even then....

I just took it from YWG's website: https://www.ywg.ca/en/newsroom/fast-facts/

"4.3 million passengers
In 2024, Winnipeg Richardson International Airport saw 4.3 million passengers travel through its doors: nearly 11,800 passengers daily."

I didn't spend too long looking at the breakdown for an AvCanada post. Definitely fair point and I don't know exactly how many of those 11,800 per day are subject to the AIF, but the general point still stands, AIFs make the airports, airlines and governments lots of money,

[VFS]

I’ve ran the number in the past, rough estimate for a 30 year career in the airlines commuting all of that time. Flights/hotels/meal, etc. I figure with inflation would be about 750,000$

I was able to keep it between $700-1000/ month most months, a few times I was around $1200/ month. Your estimate is over 2k a month which seems on the high side.

I said rough estimate with inflation over a 30 year period.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I’ve ran the number in the past, rough estimate for a 30 year career in the airlines commuting all of that time. Flights/hotels/meal, etc. I figure with inflation would be about 750,000$

I was able to keep it between $700-1000/ month most months, a few times I was around $1200/ month. Your estimate is over 2k a month which seems on the high side.

I said rough estimate with inflation over a 30 year period.

Could still be cheaper than unaffordable places to stay in yyz/yvr.

[altiplano]

I’ve ran the number in the past, rough estimate for a 30 year career in the airlines commuting all of that time. Flights/hotels/meal, etc. I figure with inflation would be about 750,000$

I was able to keep it between $700-1000/ month most months, a few times I was around $1200/ month. Your estimate is over 2k a month which seems on the high side.

$1000/month is $2000/month before tax.

Can't even write off going to work in this country.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I’m gonna sound strange here.

I really don’t understand why people are complaining about commuting. You accepted a position at a location that isn’t your home. The onus is on you to be at work. Some companies have policies that somewhat help with this. If you’re not willing to do it or cannot afford commuting, then don’t do it. End of story. There are other flying jobs nearby. Or other jobs in general.

[pelmet]

I’m gonna sound strange here.

I really don’t understand why people are complaining about commuting. You accepted a position at a location that isn’t your home. The onus is on you to be at work. Some companies have policies that somewhat help with this. If you’re not willing to do it or cannot afford commuting, then don’t do it. End of story. There are other flying jobs nearby. Or other jobs in general.

I love straight talk.

Of note: One can also get a job where the commuting cost is paid for. I used to fly business class at company expense at one place. Another gave me economy but the meals were free.

There are companies in Canada that will pay for your flight to work.

[cdnavater]

I’m gonna sound strange here.

I really don’t understand why people are complaining about commuting. You accepted a position at a location that isn’t your home. The onus is on you to be at work. Some companies have policies that somewhat help with this. If you’re not willing to do it or cannot afford commuting, then don’t do it. End of story. There are other flying jobs nearby. Or other jobs in general.

Absolutely true but when I first started commuting I paid something like 38 round trip, then the AIFs and Security charges started going up, 52, then 78, 85, now it’s 107. To make matters worse I used to be able to work 8 and 7 commuting twice, now I have to commute three times with the max 6 on.
I however have made my peace with it, my wife will not move to any of our bases, she considered YYC for a bit but with no family anywhere near we opted to stay put.
It would make life much cheaper if they didn’t collect 300/mth from me to go to work, yes, of the 107, 5 is the airline charge, the rest is fees!

[lowoleo22]

I’m gonna sound strange here.

I really don’t understand why people are complaining about commuting. You accepted a position at a location that isn’t your home. The onus is on you to be at work. Some companies have policies that somewhat help with this. If you’re not willing to do it or cannot afford commuting, then don’t do it. End of story. There are other flying jobs nearby. Or other jobs in general.

Don't agree with you on this one Duke. Airline bases are limited to expensive cities with most airlines not paying a living wage as a new FO to live there. Sure there are other options out there, but guess what, they didn't call me back. I got the spot I could find that paid me a decent wage to work there. But wait, the reserve rules changed on me. The commuting rules at my airline changed on me. Airport fees doubled last year. It's not as simple as saying everyone should just get a job where they live in base. It's a nice paradise I agree, but as we all know, this isn't paradise.

[daedalusx]

Isn’t jumpseating free in the states if you’re CASS ?

[newlygrounded]

I’m gonna sound strange here.

I really don’t understand why people are complaining about commuting. You accepted a position at a location that isn’t your home. The onus is on you to be at work. Some companies have policies that somewhat help with this. If you’re not willing to do it or cannot afford commuting, then don’t do it. End of story. There are other flying jobs nearby. Or other jobs in general.

Making you quit your job but not telling you where you'll be based for the new job is part of the problem.

[altiplano]

Absolutely.

You don't find out until you're second week where you're based at some companies. Then everything changes and you have to move...

The fact is though, that since the dawn of the jet era, since The War really, the culture and nature of the position of Airline Pilot has been to have the ability to live where you want and ride the jump to work. The lifestyle has always been one of work hard when you get to base and then get stretches off to refresh at the place of your choosing.

This is a job that drains and kills us, results in us missing much of the life of people that live if the surface and get to go home every night. We know it's not glamorous. It stresses our health, it stresses our relationships. In order that we can do it, and for the public safety benefit. We get paid well and get to live where we want.

That's the Social Contract.

Despite the pressure they will try to put on us. Despite the 20 year dump on wages. Despite that these managers would love nothing more than we all lived in boxes by the airport in base. They try to take our jump away or charge us fees. They put 1st year clipboard managers ahead of us in seniority to ride our own equipment, agents try to tell us who rides in our office.

But we are the ones that control the park brake, only we push the levers forward when ready, it's our ship, it's our industry, @#$! the accountants, @#$! the desk pilots, @#$! the regulators.

That's the Social Contract of being an Airline Pilot. Make good money and live where your want.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Isn’t jumpseating free in the states if you’re CASS ?

I believe so.

Porter does allow one employee to travel free of charge as we have “one available jumpseat”.

[rudder]

Concur wholeheartedly with the sentiments. So what to do about it? Who do you convince? The airports love their AIFs. It's how they can afford jade Haida war canoe sculptures in YVR (yet run out de ice fluid in winter) or an international departures area in YYC big enough to house a small blimp. What is the heating cost on that?
I think Handover has it. We are the product. Only way to solve it may be to vote with your feet and find another career. Does the government care? I doubt it? Could they be made to care? Only with support of airlines I suspect. Beancounters who run airlines? Nope. They just care that you show up and how you do it is your problem. So much for help from them.
Perhaps when more airplanes get parked, then the beancounter may sit up and pay attention. I note Encore seems to be at about half strength from my unofficial poll when I go up front to say hello when commuting. Jazz is the same. I look at reduced frequency on Jazz as an indicator.
How did the Yanks do it? I don't know. I would like ALPA to actually make a fuss for the extra 0.5% I am giving them now (WG to WS rates for union dues were 1.35% at WG and now 1.85% at WS).
Does ALPA care? They care about that 1.85%. After that?
Great sentiment. How will this get to reality?
Only a shortage affecting profits will make them (beancounters) sit up and pay attention.

Nope.

Just follow the US model.

Free reciprocal J/S. Can’t duplicate that in Canada? Pilots have put cost-free POS travel in their CBA (own airline) plus company paid hotel stays for commuters.

Don’t bother negotiating with airports and the Feds. Negotiate with the employer.