Not surprised...

[JungleRiot]

IMG_20250528_124518_304.jpg (163.04 KiB) Viewed 5359 times

[flyingcanuck]

Whether we called it or not, sorry to those who are affected. I hope you find a new spot quickly.

[evilgravy]

Just wait until you hear why they’re doing this…

[flying4dollars]

I assume the statement “may be laid off” is dependent on whether the affected pilots are willing to bid other bases. Hope this doesn’t mean any involuntary job losses. Be interesting to see what’s discussed at the town hall. Good luck to those affected!

[FatPilot]

This is where pilots start to use their sick days because they are just going to lose them anyways.

[daedalusx]

Just wait until you hear why they’re doing this…

Go on ….

[DanWEC]

Well, when your margins are microscopic, you have no cash reserve, and a critical part of your market evaporates overnight, tough decisions have to be made. Although, 20 pilots is also suspiciously close to the crewing req of one tail, albeit maybe a bit high for Flair.
I feel for you guys there, but nothing's permanent, and other airlines are still hiring. Could be a silver lining.
Good luck all.

[evilgravy]

Just wait until you hear why they’re doing this…

Go on ….

if you're on the town hall, you're hearing about it right now.

[flyinhigh]

Just wait until you hear why they’re doing this…

Go on ….

if you're on the town hall, you're hearing about it right now.

So what’s the word? Hopefully all you lads will be ok. While everyone bashes Flair (myself included), no one wants to see there fellow colleagues get laid off.

[yuck]

"Flair said the change is not tied to any layoffs"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/kitchener/articl ... ut-of-ykf/

[Gameon]

MEC preemptive memo before the company and likely less of an impact as stated. Current union apparently is full of inexperience and youthful exuberance and it shows. Hopefully temporary for those affected and those based in YKF. Always a silver lining just not in view for now. Best of luck

[yuck]

I will lose my base, my coworkers may lose their jobs. Union wasn't preemptive, CEO was late.

Union call said that the countdown started monday, why did our CEO wait to tell us?

[straight2thepoint]

That's because our union chair and secretary are dumb and dumber!

[flyinhigh]

Sry how’s this on the Union?

Company informed them that layoffs and base closure are occurring. Union informed pilot group with as much advanced notice as possible. That’s Fact and is occurring.

If they waited for company email and town hall than you would sit here complaining you didn’t get enough notice and they should have told you right away.

If you think you could do a better job, put your hands up and volunteer.

[fish4life]

If I were an employee I’d prefer to find out ASAP even if it meant a few details are slightly wrong so I can get applications out immediately to other carriers.

[Gameon]

The company needs to disseminate information first or at the very least in collaboration with the union which is clearly not happening. The union couldn’t wait a mere 24 hours and react accordingly? All somehow justified. That memo by the union created needless fear and confusion. And now my understanding is that very few layoffs will occur at all! In 6 short months we have a terminated union member, division and toxicity. All negative us against them. No self reflection of culpability or any wrong doing by the union They fight on virtually everything and here we are. How’s this working out for everyone? Inexperience, ego and a lack of real leadership is glaringly obvious in this union. Fact. Something needs to change. We need a positive working relationship and it doesn’t seem possible with the current members.

[Floop]

The company needs to disseminate information first or at the very least in collaboration with the union which is clearly not happening. The union couldn’t wait a mere 24 hours and react accordingly? All somehow justified. That memo by the union created needless fear and confusion. And now my understanding is that very few layoffs will occur at all! In 6 short months we have a terminated union member, division and toxicity. All negative us against them. No self reflection of culpability or any wrong doing by the union They fight on virtually everything and here we are. How’s this working out for everyone? Inexperience, ego and a lack of real leadership is glaringly obvious in this union. Fact. Something needs to change. We need a positive working relationship and it doesn’t seem possible with the current members.

Not sure why some people think the union should’ve stayed quiet. The 45-day notice had already been issued, which means the timeline was active. Pilots don’t have the luxury of waiting around for a townhall the next day to start figuring things out. In situations like this, communication matters. Last time I got laid off, it was the union that gave me the heads-up too. If anything, that’s exactly what they’re there for.

If the company wasn't prepared to share the information, they shouldn't have given the notice.

[lament]

There seems to be confusion about the timeline. Here it is, all gathered from company and union emails and townhalls:

Monday
Company provides formal 45 day notice of intention to layoff required in the contract (confirmed by the CEO himself in his latest Q&A email). This starts the clock ticking. The company tells the MEC that they would like to break the news the next day, Tuesday. The union is happy to let them do this.

Tuesday
No announcement from the company. Probably Thursday, they tell the MEC.

Wednesday
MEC tells the VP Flight Ops that they believe the pilots need to know without any further delay and are going to send out a comm. This was indicated by the MEC chair during the ALPA townhall on Thursday afternoon. The chair also indicated that there wasn't anything in the response from the VPFO to indicate that informing the pilots was unacceptable. Comm goes out to inform pilots.

Thursday
VPFO sends email expressing outrage at the union comm going out.
The company finally hosts a townhall, the CEO expresses outrage at ALPA's breach of trust in sending out the comm.
MEC hosts townhall to explain. This includes a very experienced ALPA labour relation advisor, explaining that the notice was not confidential, and in fact there is a responsibility to advise the union membership of the notice.

============================================================================

Looking at the timeline, I can't understand how anyone can fault the union. They gave the company the chance to break the news, and the company didn't. All while the 45 days are ticking down. Think of the pilots most affected by this: new hires who are making decisions, have potentially moved across the country to their base, are buying cars, signing leases, maybe buying a house. Days matter in these cases and they deserve to know just how precarious their employment is.

The union can't just allow time to tick down day by day while the company makes their PowerPoints to announce how on time we are, our amazing new website, and the art exhibits they are hosting (all talked about in the townhall before getting to "right-sizing" the pilot headcount. Unbelievable.)

It's great that the company wants to mitigate layoffs, hopefully that will happen. Maybe they should have met with the union exploring options to reduce headcount before issuing the notice. But they can't serve a formal notice to layoff to get the clock started and then expect it to be kept hush hush for days.

[afterburner&smoke]

That's because our union chair and secretary are dumb and dumber!

That's because our union chair and secretary are dumb and dumber!

I'm sure you put in a lot of great work and effort to come to this very well worded conclusion.

You gotta love these forums, it let's everyone express their thoughts, even the dumbest ones. Keep at it, you're doing great.

In the meanwhile, for the more versed fellow pilots out here, there's always gonna be company friendly pilots and union friendly ones. I personally don't care about where you fall as long as you can express your thoughts and argue your points. On this, the company would have preferred to put the news out themselves I'm sure, but any Union rep at any company would have not sat on this any longer, or at all to start with.

I really don't understand how Flair pilots could be at odds with their Union. The Reps clearly had one job to do and that's to give notice to their members. That's the job, not serving the company but your members.

And why would the ceo talk soup and cookies before addressing the real stuff. But sure, three years overdue Flair finally has a website that maybe works.

Good stuff, good luck, hope you all keep your jobs.

[Floop]

Wednesday
MEC tells the VP Flight Ops that they believe the pilots need to know without any further delay and are going to send out a comm. This was indicated by the MEC chair during the ALPA townhall on Thursday afternoon. The chair also indicated that there wasn't anything in the response from the VPFO to indicate that informing the pilots was unacceptable. Comm goes out to inform

Chair told the VPFO before releasing the memo and they still criticized them? I missed that, thank you. What is wrong with our management and the pilots who defend them?

[fish4life]

Remember the company (any company) doesn’t care about you as an employee, they just try to do what’s best for the business and if that means you find out a week before that you are being laid off so people don’t jump ship earlier oh well.

[Gameon]

Company doesn’t care about you? What a sad and ignorant statement. Simply not true and all. Not worth further response.

The above justifications prove the current situation in union/company relations. And after all this back and forth likely very few layoffs and further broken trust. This union needs to be far more facilitative and far less combative. How do we get to yes not how can we again say no.

The current status of the union is a mess. An ego driven combative group of inexperience and it shows. The company and the union now don’t talk so how is that in any way positive? Its affecting morale across the airline. Something has to change. A recall might be the only solution unless things turn around and they can work together.

[afterburner&smoke]

Company doesn’t care about you? What a sad and ignorant statement. Simply not true and all. Not worth further response.

The above justifications prove the current situation in union/company relations. And after all this back and forth likely very few layoffs and further broken trust. This union needs to be far more facilitative and far less combative. How do we get to yes not how can we again say no.

The current status of the union is a mess. An ego driven combative group of inexperience and it shows. The company and the union now don’t talk so how is that in any way positive? Its affecting morale across the airline. Something has to change. A recall might be the only solution unless things turn around and they can work together.

Tell you what's affecting your moral: base closures and layoffs.

Losing 3 bases in 3 years must be a record. But hey, at least you got no crew meals, substandard everything in your contract with maybe the exception of pay depending how you look at it, shit insurances, shit pension, and most your pilots don't know what the company is doing because you change course every 6 months.

Yet, you're here saying the union is the issue. The lack of experience of the reps. Correct me if I'm wrong but your last "experienced" chair quite 6 months in. The previous "experienced" MEC got you a substandard contract, wholes in language you could walk an elephant through and didn't fight at all when company took liberties with your contact.

Keep your head in the sand, this company is great and really cares. You got this!

[goingnowherefast]

There seems to be confusion about the timeline. Here it is, all gathered from company and union emails and townhalls:

Monday
Company provides formal 45 day notice of intention to layoff required in the contract (confirmed by the CEO himself in his latest Q&A email). This starts the clock ticking. The company tells the MEC that they would like to break the news the next day, Tuesday. The union is happy to let them do this.

Tuesday
No announcement from the company. Probably Thursday, they tell the MEC.

Wednesday
MEC tells the VP Flight Ops that they believe the pilots need to know without any further delay and are going to send out a comm. This was indicated by the MEC chair during the ALPA townhall on Thursday afternoon. The chair also indicated that there wasn't anything in the response from the VPFO to indicate that informing the pilots was unacceptable. Comm goes out to inform pilots.

Thursday
VPFO sends email expressing outrage at the union comm going out.
The company finally hosts a townhall, the CEO expresses outrage at ALPA's breach of trust in sending out the comm.
MEC hosts townhall to explain. This includes a very experienced ALPA labour relation advisor, explaining that the notice was not confidential, and in fact there is a responsibility to advise the union membership of the notice.

============================================================================

Looking at the timeline, I can't understand how anyone can fault the union. They gave the company the chance to break the news, and the company didn't. All while the 45 days are ticking down. Think of the pilots most affected by this: new hires who are making decisions, have potentially moved across the country to their base, are buying cars, signing leases, maybe buying a house. Days matter in these cases and they deserve to know just how precarious their employment is.

The union can't just allow time to tick down day by day while the company makes their PowerPoints to announce how on time we are, our amazing new website, and the art exhibits they are hosting (all talked about in the townhall before getting to "right-sizing" the pilot headcount. Unbelievable.)

It's great that the company wants to mitigate layoffs, hopefully that will happen. Maybe they should have met with the union exploring options to reduce headcount before issuing the notice. But they can't serve a formal notice to layoff to get the clock started and then expect it to be kept hush hush for days.

Sounds like typical anti-union rhetoric from management. Blaming the union for doing what theyre required to do, and what they said they'd do. Management is playing politics and using layoffs as an opportunity to attack the union. It's pretty sad and unfortunate.

Management's job is to protect the business. They don't GAF about the people. Whatever makes the most business sense.
Pilot dues literally pay a union to protect you. Got laid off? Less dues for the union. You pay them to protect you, and they will do their best to protect you. Including giving as much notice as possible, even if it pisses off management.

Management wants to @#$! around and play games with kicking pilots to the street? I'm going to very strongly support the union. They're not the ones laying off my coworkers.

[habanaerospace]

MEC preemptive memo before the company and likely less of an impact as stated. Current union apparently is full of inexperience and youthful exuberance and it shows. Hopefully temporary for those affected and those based in YKF. Always a silver lining just not in view for now. Best of luck

I hope the company is subsidizing your KY supply. Rumour has it, the CP's Office has quite a bit on hand It's pretty clear where you stand and not too difficult to see whose agenda you're pushing. If you think the union could use help - volunteer. If you're unhappy - donate your dues.

Experienced or not, at least our union cared enough about their colleagues to provide the required notification. I'm sure you enjoyed the delayed Company Town Hall where the CEO hyped up everything under the moon for 30 minutes and then noted the throw-away pilots like an afterthought.

It's sad when a guy would rather see their coworkers deported then admit their buddies in the office have been lying to everyone for months. It's pretty clear what's happened here - wake up.