How can I be overqualified?

N8 · Post by N8 » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:35 am

I'll have to mark this day on the calendar. I'm over qualified for this flying job!

Class IV Flight Instructor (Canadian Flight Centre)

"Class IV need only apply."

... · Post by **...** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:29 am

"Job Description:
FAX OR MAIL RESUMES ONLY!!!!!
NO WALK INS!!!!
NO PHONE CALLS OR EMAILS!!!
Class IV need only apply.
Must be energetic and personable!
General Flight Instructor duties.
MUST be prepared to accept the responsibilities of Person Responsible
for Maintenance (PRM). Must have a good working knowledge of the CARs.
Salary:TBA "

Good luck to all that apply. I am sure it's a great company to work for.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:18 pm

Class 4 needed...translation - they want to pay the absolute min amount.

I worked for a school like that, the owner would only hire class 4's so he could skimp on pay. It was a big thing when you got your 3.....

those were the days.

Cheers.

SourApple · Post by **SourApple** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:33 pm

That and so they can have a company b!tch.

corn-shoot · Post by **corn-shoot** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:01 pm

N8 wrote:I'll have to mark this day on the calendar. I'm over qualified for this flying job!

Class IV Flight Instructor (Canadian Flight Centre)

"Class IV need only apply."

Don't worry N8, most companies still find you rediculously underqualified for most of life's tasks.

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:36 pm

Ouch, that stings.

N8 · Post by N8 » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:48 pm

LOL

Story of my life.

How does that song go? "Too evil for heaven and hell doesn't want me".

W5 · Post by W5 » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:05 pm

"Heaven doesn't want me, and Hell is afraid I'll take over."

The Old Fogducker · Post by **The Old Fogducker** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:07 pm

Considering that is John Montgomery's company, you could do a great deal worse than hanging around a guy/company like that. You'll really know your stuff after spending time there.

Sounds like a good opportunity for a new guy starting out.

Fog

Phlyer · Post by **Phlyer** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:18 pm

You're thinking of Pro Ifr - this is CFC. It's run by a guy named R** H*****.
Good school but different ballgame.
Foto

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:45 pm

The most interesting part is not that they want a Class IV instructor, who I presume wouldn't have alot of experience, but that they want this inexperienced person to be the PRM. Which is a job that doesn't go along with the idea of an inexperienced person in aviation. I guess unless you have an AME background.

It sounds like they want somebody for that position that will just do as they are told to do.

Or am I out to lunch on the topic?

IMO

5x5 · Post by **5x5** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:40 pm

I was just going to say the same thing. PRM duties shouldn't be underestimated, they take a lot of time and there is some serious responsibility. I hope they aren't expecting the class IV to do it for free.

Also, it's not that easy to be accepted by TC as a PRM - there's tests and interviews that must be passed. Good luck

The following are excerpts from CARS:

706.03 Person Responsible for Maintenance Control System
(1) An air operator shall

(a) appoint a senior manager of its staff to be responsible for its maintenance control system;

726.03 AIR OPERATOR MAINTENANCE - Person Responsible for Maintenance Control System
(amended 1998/06/01; previous version)
(1) Subject to (2), persons appointed pursuant to Section 706.03 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations shall meet the following standards of competence:

(a) they shall achieve a grade of not less than 70% in a Transport Canada multiple choice examination on the Canadian Aviation Regulations applicable to a Person Responsible for Maintenance Control System; and

(b) their personal record in relation to aviation shall not include:

(i) any conviction under Section 7.3 of the Aeronautics Act; or

(ii) any combination of two or more convictions on separate occasions, under Sections 605.84, 605.85 or 605.86 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.

(2) Persons who held the position on January 1, 1997 may continue in that position without the need to comply with (1)(a), but must comply with (1)(b).

(3) The examination required by (1)(a) shall be an open book examination. Holders of current AME licences shall be exempt from this examination.

(4) The applicant for the "Person Responsible for Maintenance Control System" position within an Air Operator shall demonstrate, during an interview conducted by Transport Canada regional personnel, he/she is knowledgeable in respect of the air operator's approved policies and on the topics listed below:

(a) Duties and responsibilities of the appointed position;

(b) Duties of persons who have been assigned functional responsibilities;

(c) Responsibilities of the Operator in relation to those of the AMO;

(d) Identification of acceptable reference data for maintenance schedules;

(e) Use of fleet sampling techniques;

(f) Control of repetitive inspections;

(g) Reliability programs;

(h) Types and methods of control of mandatory maintenance tasks;

(i) Defect control;

(j) Technical dispatch requirements;

(k) Maintenance release requirements;

(l) Control of elementary work and servicing;

(m) Responsibility for record keeping; and

(n) The function of quality assurance.

(5) The interview is designed to further establish the applicant's knowledge and competence. The applicant will be informed of any mistakes, and the correct answers will be discussed. Questions and responses will be recorded. Should the interview be unsuccessful, the applicant will be informed immediately and the decision will be confirmed by a written notification to the applicant and the Air Operator within 10 days.

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:11 am

5x5,

Thanks for all of the real info, that is what I thought when I saw the info there, how is a class IV instructor going to be able to do that job. Not without being specifically told what to do by his supervisors, which makes him/her just a pawn for what management wants to see happen.

So another question? Why are they not trying to get one of their own guys, with alot more experience in the industy to fill the position, possibly because they know that nobody will accept the position on their terms where a new guy would?

All speculation on my part, but it seems rather strange.

AlterEgo · Post by **AlterEgo** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:25 am

Regency Express just bought CFC. Perhaps that would be a piece of the puzzle.

loopy · Post by **loopy** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:37 am

C'mon N8. Look where you work. You get paid crap as a III, yet there can never be enough IV's around, hungry and eager, despite how little business there is to go around. Happens at far too many places. Although you are still far down the pecking order of the aviation hierarchy, caca rolls down hill, and there is always somebody fresher and younger without any real world experience who would at first gladly swim in a lake of sewage for flight time. All they hear is the owner's pitch line of how much flying you will do and how this would be a great first step in their career.

And the cycle rolls on.

neverfail · Post by **neverfail** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:29 pm

alterego,

Wasn't it cenntenial that they bought?

AlterEgo · Post by **AlterEgo** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:47 pm

oops... shoulda known someone woulda jumped on that one before I got to it. My bad!

shankdown · Post by **shankdown** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:42 pm

I am Birddog wrote:MUST be prepared to accept the responsibilities of Person Responsible
for Maintenance (PRM).

Translation: We don't want you to have anything to do with our maintenance department. However, if Transport finds something wrong with our maintenance, or an accident occurs because of our crappy maintenance, we want to blame you for it.

SD

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:25 am

Note:

There is a lower requirement for the position of PRM for a flying school.

See CAR 426:36 ( I think that is the correct one? I'm sitting in Holland and the CAR reference is from memory and I could be wrong.) there is a difference in the wording in 426:36 (2).

Needless to say there are many schools operating with PRM' s that have been approved with very little exposure or understanding of maintenance requirements.

The secret is being acceptable to M&M....... even though I met the requirements in the regulations I was not acceptable and was refused this position for my own company by M&M YVR.

Its more who you bow down to rather than your knowledge and background.

Cat

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:01 am

Umm, Im thinking I would want someone familure with the companies operation as my PRM. Hold that thought for a second, I happen to know this school has done many class 4 instructor ratings in the past few years and cant belive that all have gotten jobs or moved on, in fact I know so. Back on track here maybe its because these people are familure with company operations that they need to hire some noob from outside the company who hasnt a clue what they are getting into.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:15 am

wow...you guys are worse then a bunch of hens. CFC is actually a pretty good school, or at least they have been in the past.

The instructors get paid okay, class IV included. better than many flight schools out there. also, the person who takes care of the maintenance control get's paid extra to take care of that responsiblity. the reason they are asking for that is that they want someone for the mtnce control position who will stick around for a while. If they make the most senior instructor do it, they will have to retrain someone else soon because that person will be heading out for a better job a lot sooner than the class IV will. you train fewer people, have less turnover for the mtnce control position, and in the end you get better mtnce control, even if the instructor starts out with with little experience.

also, for what it is worth, CFC is a good place to work, you get quite a bit of flying throughout the year, not just in the summer, and RH, while being a little on the crazy side, is a very fair guy to work for. He has a lot of connections around the industry and you will get to know many people in other parts of aviation, that can one day help you to get a job. All of the instructors from CFC have gone on to do very well....myself included. Any class IV's out there, this is a good opportunity. And the Mtnc. Cont. gives you a little bit of guaranteed income every month!

-wp

ps...shankdown....nice pot stirring buddy! you would probably do well to work at CFC...maybe you could learn something new!

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:30 am

Still doesnt explain why they wont hire one they trained in house or could it have just been a money grab from students who thought they might have a chance instructing?

How can I be overqualified?

How can I be overqualified?

Re: How can I be overqualified?