Loss of radio...

Perma_student · Post by **Perma_student** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm

So, I have checked out the FTM, FTGU, POH, etc, and I'm not sure what to do exactly if...

1. I loose my radio at a MF airport?
Squak7700 and leave to an alternate ATF airport or can I just land and keep a watchful eye?

2. At a controlled airport?
Squak 7700 continue with ATC's most recent instructions, then what? Leave, the zone if I wasnt cleared to land? If I was cleared to land, and I land, what do I do now as a NORDO on the taxiway?

3. If its a an ATF airport and the radio dies I can just continue NORDO right?

Besides the standard procedures, do I try to call them with my cell? Check the circuits/fueses etc, anything else?

Thanks for the help!

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:11 pm

You should look up the section on visual signals in the FTGU. That's a start.
Perhaps tour a tower, check out the light gun.

Comms failure can be confusing. I suggest you have a long discussion with your instructor and get 'er all crystal clear.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:28 pm

As for light signals, most all towers will shine em at you if you ask, so you at least have an idea of what you are looking for.

Perma_student · Post by **Perma_student** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:48 pm

Thanks, I've never seen the light signals, so I'll have to make apoint of asking them to show me sometime!

WRX · Post by **WRX** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:05 pm

SQ 7600 not 7700

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:39 pm

SQ:

7700: Emergency
7600: RADIO FAILURE!!!!!!!!!
7500: Hijacking.

"Hijack" (7500), can't talk (7600), I have an emergency (7700)

7500/ 7700 = Pilot requires armed intervention.

1coolav8r · Post by **1coolav8r** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:51 pm

77 goin' to heaven, 76 radio needs a fix, 75 the arab wants to drive

B-rad · Post by **B-rad** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:25 pm

Perma_student · Post by **Perma_student** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:30 pm

Love the memory aid, I'll never mix'em up again! Thanks!

Still wondering though, if its a MF airport no FSS or anything, can you continue to land? Or do you divert? What do you do?

niss · Post by **niss** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:21 pm

IIRC arent you supposed to leave the circuit and fly triangles near by the airport as well as squawk 7600?

Perma_student · Post by **Perma_student** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:27 pm

But how many triangles do you fly beside the airport before you decide "screw this I'm hungry, I'm landing"

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:39 pm

I think what i would do at an MF is simply continue and land...of course being very careful of other traffic. Unless it happens before you enter the zone.

Controlled airport.....if you are cleared to the circuit (assuming of course you are there to land) 7600.....procede to where you wre cleared and continue to landing....that is what they are generally expecting. They may flash the lights at you. If you aren't landing (just transiting) continue as cleared.....if you haven't recieved a clearance then 180 out and bypass the zone

Now if you're like hedley and you own a good part of the sky then screw it and do whatever you please.....then you and he can sit and over a beer complain about how transport is out to get you.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:31 pm

Beechy has it right. If in a control zone just do what tower last cleared you to do, or what they are expecting you to do. If at an MF just carry on and land, that is what you are expected to do. Every one will be looking for you to do that. If you turn around and head out of the zone when every one is expecting you to head for the runway you may cause a conflict by being somewhere people aren't looking for you.

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:08 am

mcrit wrote:Beechy has it right. If in a control zone just do what tower last cleared you to do, or what they are expecting you to do. If at an MF just carry on and land, that is what you are expected to do. Every one will be looking for you to do that. If you turn around and head out of the zone when every one is expecting you to head for the runway you may cause a conflict by being somewhere people aren't looking for you.

Completely agree.

Any/all communication failure scenarios are different. You have to use your experience, training, and common sense.

1) squaking 7700 is not going to help at an uncontrolled airport (unless it has an FSS with radar capability, something to keep in mind)

2) the "flying triangles" to alert ATC that you have a communications failure was a procedure created before most aircraft had transponders. I doubt anyone would be looking for that, and if they were, what would you expect them to do? (any ATC types might want to validate/invalidate this theory)

3) if you are outside the control zone, you could land at another airport without a control zone/MF and call ATC for permission/procedures on how to get back to your home base

4) there is always the trusty cellular telephone... to be used in case of an emegergency (many pilots have the local IFR centre's phone number in their quick dial list)

The name of the game is try and be predicable in what you do. Being a "wild card" (ATC having to guess what you are going to do next) is going to create "issues".

...just some ideas.

-Guy

Luscombe · Post by **Luscombe** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 am

I came upon this scenerio when flying up north. I had to land at an MF airport with a CARS station when my radio died. It's not like I had a lot of other options (ie diverting to an alternate.... it's the north afterall and I was in a wheel-equiped airplane).

I knew this regulation existed, so I came in. Later I looked up the specific reference for future use. It is CAR 602.97(3) which states:

"(3) The pilot-in-command of a VFR aircraft that is not equipped with the radiocommunication equipment referred to in subsection (1) may operate the aircraft to or from an uncontrolled aerodrome that lies within an MF area if

(a) a ground station is in operation at the aerodrome;

(b) prior notice of the pilot-in-command's intention to operate the aircraft at the aerodrome has been given to the ground station;

(c) when conducting a take-off, the pilot-in-command ascertains by visual observation that there is no likelihood of collision with another aircraft or a vehicle during take-off; and

(d) when approaching for a landing, the aircraft enters the aerodrome traffic circuit from a position that will require it to complete two sides of a rectangular circuit before turning onto the final approach path."

Translated to English, this means (a) there has to actually be someone there at the FSS or CARS station, (b) they have to know you're coming, either by phoning them ahead of time in the event that you know your radio is broken and you're bringing it in for someone to look at it, or by filing a flight plan, (c) fly over the airport and have a look at aircraft in the circuit or vehicles on the runway just like you do at an ATF airport, and (d) you can't come straight in on final or joining base, you have to join mid-downwind or do a teardrop and join mid-downwind on the other side of the airport.

This really makes sense when you think of it. They need to know you're coming, someone has to actually be there to tell other aircraft on the MF frequency that a NORDO aircraft is in the circuit, you make sure nobody is taking off or landing as to create a conflict with you, and join the circuit as published and don't get creative.

I really don't know why this isn't covered in greater details at FTU's in close proximity to an MF airport, or better yet the ones that train out of an MF airport. Everyone seems to be crystal clear on what to do at an ATF and Controlled airport, but always seem vague on the MF.

Hope this clears up some of the questions.

B-rad · Post by **B-rad** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:32 am

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:39 pm

Well, last summer I experienced a total electrical failure about five minutes after departure from a fairly busy international airport (Victoria, CYYJ). Though I did switch the transponder to 7600, I also realized that it wasn't working and wouldn't be much help. I pulled out the CFS, looked up the tower number (it's not my home airport), and called them on my cell phone. When they answered, they had already painted me on primary radar (most ATC/FSS sites won't have this though) and were watching me through binoculars to see what I'd do. From there tower simply gave me directions over the phone as I rejoined the circuit, landed behind a WJ 737, and taxiied in without event.

Now in the event that I didn't have a cell phone on board, I would have still turned around in busy Class C airspace, lined myself up for landing, and waited for light signals. My other options were continuing across open water to my original destination (Boundary Bay, CZBB) or trying to find another uncontrolled airport to land at on the island. Seeing as I was still in the zone, and as I didn't know what had caused the failure, I think getting it on the ground ASAP was the right thing to do; the guys in the tower agreed with me when I spoke to them afterwards. In my eyes, a radio failure in class C airspace constitutes an emergency, and you as a pilot are charged with undertaking whatever actions you deem neccesary to ensure the safety of your aircraft and its passengers, CARS be damned.

P.S. Turning around and landing at a major airport had the benefit of readily available maitenance that had me on my way in 4 hours.

Chop&Drop · Post by **Chop&Drop** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:51 pm

I had a comm failure a couple of months ago. Was already in the zone comming in to land. My problem was odd, I could hear everything that was going on, but when I transmitted only my "carrier" was being heard, and I lost side tone when I PTT. Sure enough, I reached in my pocket grabed my phone and before I could even get to TOWER in my contacts, they came on saying GABC if you can hear this squack ID. Which I did and landed uneventfully acknlodging my clearances by squacking id.

Turns out the emergeny mic wire had broken.

Kilo-Kilo · Post by **Kilo-Kilo** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:12 pm

Isn't the common procedure to:

1. Fly crosswind at midfield 500 ft. above curcuit alt. (hopefully getting the attention of the tower),

2. Descend to join downwind of the active,

3. Turn base, then final while watching for light signals?

youngflier · Post by **youngflier** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:50 pm

Perma_student wrote:So, I have checked out the FTM, FTGU, POH, etc, and I'm not sure what to do exactly if...

1. I loose my radio at a MF airport?
Squak7700 and leave to an alternate ATF airport or can I just land and keep a watchful eye?

2. At a controlled airport?
Squak 7700 continue with ATC's most recent instructions, then what? Leave, the zone if I wasnt cleared to land? If I was cleared to land, and I land, what do I do now as a NORDO on the taxiway?

3. If its a an ATF airport and the radio dies I can just continue NORDO right?

Besides the standard procedures, do I try to call them with my cell? Check the circuits/fueses etc, anything else?

Thanks for the help!

ya buddy geez light gun

youngflier · Post by **youngflier** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:20 pm

actually your suppose to sqwuak 7500

Zagarino · Post by **Zagarino** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:03 am

1coolav8r wrote:77 goin' to heaven, 76 radio needs a fix, 75 the arab wants to drive

Funny i find it, with some sense of humour in me, but offensive to always have your race expressed around as an "airplane hijacker" ....

Arabs have already suffered enough from their image being expressed as hijackers and terrorists especially in foreign countries.

so i dont think its nice to be remembering squak codes in words that may offend or harm other human beings regardless of what their religion or race is.

B-rad · Post by **B-rad** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:29 am

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:10 pm

B-rad wrote:hey Zagarino
i like your signature. its funny, but it dosnt reeally apply to arabs does it?

Mathematically speaking (do you have any idea what math is ??) it does apply to Arabs , writing in English does not apply to you ,does it ?!!

B-rad · Post by **B-rad** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:25 pm

Loss of radio...

Loss of radio...

Thanks!

Re: Loss of radio...