Not just aviation - TC has railroad issues as well.

golden hawk · Post by **golden hawk** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:56 am

W5 show about railroads is very interesting, and sounds similar to aviation issues.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... ?hub=WFive

W5 · Post by W5 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:56 pm

Wasn't me, but agree with it anyways....

Widow · Post by **Widow** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:06 pm

Interesting to note that the WCB is now taking over accident investigations for rail in some places.

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:41 pm

Ya I pvr'd it last night and watched it this morning. Was a pretty good show.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:39 pm

" Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon says that's because CN doesn't want it made public. "I would want it to be made public but I can't," Cannon tells W-FIVE. "

electraguy · Post by **electraguy** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:52 pm

So, I wonder when CN will have to build there saftey managment system?? Sending a train into the hills without proper brakes is just plain retarded. My condolences to the familys, I hope they sue for millions!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:03 pm

Seems their SMS is the problem.

Railway insiders say CN is not the only one to blame, and that government must bear some responsibility for the spike in accidents. Changes to railway legislation have taken power away from government -- yielding more authority to railway companies to develop their own safety schemes. "This is about failed transportation policy," says Gormick.

2R · Post by 2R » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:38 pm

400 derailments in 5 years .I have changed my mind about the jasper train trip after hearing that.

Airlines know that safety can affect the bottom line very quickly.I guess the railway monopolies have not learned that yet .

The quickest way to go out of business is to ignore safety concerns of the travelling public.Ask anyone from Pan Am or Value Jet............the boneyards of arizona are filled with defunct airline aircraft and each one can tell a story about what not to do in aviation.

Is there such a boneyard for railways ???

I am biased against the safety of the railways .When one of their speeding trucks crashed into my car ramming me off the road and destroying my car in the process..I managed to crawl out the pax side as the left side was crushed right in .No one from the railway company ever said sorry or offered any recompense for my loss.I could have been killed and they did not care .It came as no suprise to me when i heard about all the carnage on the railways .If the people i spoke to are representative of the corporate mentatlity of the railways i am glad i do not work there.I was told that i should get a lawyer to deal with my loss
but that would have cost more than the car was worth.And i was happy to still be alive .

Are there any accountable executives in the railways like in aviation ????
You know the patsy that goes to jail if anything goes wrong

CD · Post by CD » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:34 am

2R wrote:The quickest way to go out of business is to ignore safety concerns of the travelling public.Ask anyone from Pan Am or Value Jet............

Psssst... ValuJet didn't go out of business - they rebranded through a reverse merger to become AirTran....

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:19 am

2R wrote:400 derailments in 5 years .I have changed my mind about the jasper train trip after hearing that.

What does a freight railroad company have to do with your passenger service to Jasper? What is VIA's safety record like?

2R · Post by 2R » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:38 am

Wow it's true you can learn something new every day .Even here

The Velvet Fog · Post by **The Velvet Fog** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:44 am

99% of VIA's trains run on CN's track. CN has done little to no meaningful track work for several years. If you think AC has cut into bone cutting costs, CN would flat out scare you. Sell your stock now, because their clock is ticking.

Cheers,

Mel

Mr. North · Post by **Mr. North** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:41 pm

2R wrote:

I am biased against the safety of the railways .When one of their speeding trucks crashed into my car ramming me off the road and destroying my car in the process..I managed to crawl out the pax side as the left side was crushed right in .No one from the railway company ever said sorry or offered any recompense for my loss.I could have been killed and they did not care

...should they be sorry? Sounds like you were trying to beat the locomotive to a crossing, and lost!

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:45 pm

The Velvet Fog wrote:99% of VIA's trains run on CN's track.

What is VIA's safety record?

nite_owl · Post by **nite_owl** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:58 pm

Mr North take a moment and peruse 2R's pst again. I think you misunderstood what happened to him.

2R · Post by 2R » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:15 pm

Did i not mention it was a speeding truck on the Road.
Actually the highway not any where near a railway crossing .The details i will not relive for your education .It was the first time i have ever started to shake after being close to death. When i was blown up on a gas platform accident i hit the ground running and went back in to turn off the gas before it killed us all.When i was shot at i laughed back at them for being such shit shots . When i had a winscreen come out in a spining 172 and the student said "you have control" i put on a brave face and said lets see if we can land this puppy.It was not easy but we done it.Normally i would have laughed at such a big dent in a car .But when you are touched in your car by a truck it can be a shock. .Me mum says" your not twenty one any more so put your pride in your pocket and walk away as accidents happen ,be happy to walk away "
Sometimes you have to forgive to live ,but that does not mean we should forget .

Axial Flow · Post by **Axial Flow** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:52 pm

Have we exhausted bitching about aviation we have moved onto railways ?

I agree with change at the top for our regulators to increase safety, but becoming the change as Ghandi says is the easiest way for us to at least start a process more within our immediate influence.

2R · Post by 2R » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:26 am

Would you prefer to talk about Ghandi ??? or the civil wars he caused

Navajo-dude · Post by **Navajo-dude** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:48 pm

I like this thread. Transport Canada has far reaching authority beyond aviation, and it's interesting to see similar issues in other modes of transportation.

Does the Transport Canada aviation culture continue to rail, sea, etc? I'd like to know what is being done about BC Ferries after the Prince Rupert sinking last year and the ferry that smashed into Horseshoe Bay.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:13 pm

" Does the Transport Canada aviation culture continue to rail, sea, etc? "

From my experience with the Director General Transport Canada's top level office, the answer is yes.

The same self serving culture is evident in spades.

And I had the opportunity to observe this one on one on more than one occasion.

Cat

Navajo-dude · Post by **Navajo-dude** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:08 pm

I suppose the railroad derailments don't make headlines like a "Caravan crash" (for example) since the railroad is freight.

Sure hope a train full of chemicals doesn't derail in a city....

Axial Flow · Post by **Axial Flow** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:21 pm

2R wrote:Would you prefer to talk about Ghandi ??? or the civil wars he caused

Civil wars based on non-violence and truth ? Yeah that Ghandi makes GWB look like a saint.

What's your point ?

chipmunk · Post by **chipmunk** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:33 am

Two CN trains derail while being operated by management

Two CN trains derailed in separate incidents Tuesday in British Columbia and Alberta while being operated by management during a railway strike.

Four empty cars on a train went off the tracks in Fort Saskatchewan, near Edmonton, after striking a stationary car.

A spokesperson for CN said there were no injuries and that the incident had nothing to do with the strike.

The second derailment happened in Prince George, B.C. No further details were available.

Union representatives say it shows the dangers of supervisors running trains when they have little experience.

More than 2,800 workers at CN Rail went on strike on the weekend over wages.

CN has asked the Canada Industrial Relations Board to declare the strike illegal. A hearing into the matter will be held next Monday.

With files from the Canadian Press

2R · Post by 2R » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:17 pm

The civil wars that Ghandi was involved with had little to do with "Non-violence and Truth" and more to do with Racism and Religious intolerance.
Symptoms that still trouble the Indian sub-continent today as demonstrated by the recent Nuclear weapons development and missile tests.

As for the Railways

The Union has lost Credabilty in this strike.If you are striking because of safety .It is wrong to try and sqeeze more money because of safety.If you want money say money .If you want Safety say Safety.It is in everyones interest to get the job done safely.
If the Company needs to invest money to make improvements it cannot do that if they are striking for more money.To say that if they get more money the safty issues will go away is disingenious and dishonest and invalidates geniune safety concerns that affect the viabilty of the business that is a vital part of the economy .

I_Drive_Planes · Post by **I_Drive_Planes** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:15 pm

2R wrote: The Union has lost Credabilty in this strike.If you are striking because of safety .It is wrong to try and sqeeze more money because of safety.If you want money say money .If you want Safety say Safety.It is in everyones interest to get the job done safely.
If the Company needs to invest money to make improvements it cannot do that if they are striking for more money.To say that if they get more money the safty issues will go away is disingenious and dishonest and invalidates geniune safety concerns that affect the viabilty of the business that is a vital part of the economy .

I'm a CN conductor and I can tell you that money is a very small issue. The company never told you in a press release that they offered those of us on the former BCR territory a 20%! raise (and a very large raise to CN's mainline employees) to take CN's agreement as they wanted it. Yet they complain about the money we are asking for now. There are issues with pensions, quality of life and benefits. Safety, is the big one. CN wants us to work to the federal work/rest rules, which say that you must have 8 hours rest after each shift (which means that after 6 hours your phone will be ringing to be at work in 2 hours), and once you have 64 hours in a week you get 24 hours rest (but they can actually work you more than that, if you have 63.9 hours in they can still call you for work, and have you there up to 12 hours). We presently have rest provisions in our collective agreement that allow us to judge our own condition and take rest if we are tired. CN wants to take away all rest provisions in our agreement and have us just work within the TC rules. But wait, CN said they would give us 48 hours rest in a 7 day period, wonderful! They wouldn't however give us 48 hours continuous rest, 8 hours after one trip, 10 hours after another, 9 after another trip etc. add up to 48 hours pretty quickly. I don't know about you but I think that working that sort of schedule is not conducive to safety. This was proven in the Hinton disaster when an overtired train crew fell asleep and ran through a red signal and slammed into a passenger train killing both crews and a lot of passengers. Scary stuff, especially considering your average CN employee works 50-60 hours per week as it is.

To address the money issue directly: When the Locomotive Engineers ratified their last agreement CN gave them 4% per year, when the CAW (Carmen and Clerks) ratified a few weeks ago they received 3, 3, and 4% and no concessions at all. We are asking for 4.5% per year as a bargaining point (i.e. we expect to receive less). CN is a company the will make more than 2 billon this year, our president makes roughly 1 million US per week, our requests are not out of line.

CN claims that they are not seeking the sort of agreement that I detailed above. They were seeking that sort of agreement for the last 3 months of negotiation up until 72 hours before the strike.

Anyone who hasn't seen the W5 special I definitely reccomend that you go to their website and watch it, it's very good.

2R please educate yourself on the issues before you comment, one company press release doesn't paint the whole picture. Please stay in your lane.

Planes