Westjet 2010 and beyond

sky1 · Post by **sky1** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:23 pm

With the Asia boom in its infancy does anyone think that WJ could launch services from YVR and to a less extent YYZ. What about Europe or for that matter anywhere. Cargo is booming in Asia and I believe that WJ could take a slice of the pie. What do you think.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:46 pm

baby steps, man. 10% is the planned growth until further notice(after this year i think) I can think of alot of airlines that expanded too fast and burst.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:05 pm

Four1oh wrote:baby steps, man. 10% is the planned growth until further notice(after this year i think) I can think of alot of airlines that expanded too fast and burst.

What are you talking about, look at the last airline who went from 1 daily, two 12 daily flights overnight from YYC-YVR... they're doing fine... well one guy is.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:22 am

and who's that?

sky1 · Post by **sky1** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:24 am

If you compare someone like Virgin Blue in Oz .........50 plus 737s in 7 years and making money. They just announced 7 777-300ers for international ops out of Oz. Going up against Qantas is no easy feat. I believe that with the 787 which is a game changer aircraft, WJ could make themselves a player in the Pacific rim. Yvr is getting busier every year, making it a prefered gateway into North America. Oneworld is coming sooner than later. Cargo is booming. Vancouver 2010 Olympics. The time is right.......look for WJ placing an order within 2 to 3 years. If not sooner.

YYCcrew · Post by **YYCcrew** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:23 pm

In this day and age I think anything could happen, I would love to see the 787 in Westjets colours. I also think that they could really make it work for them.

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:52 pm

sky1 wrote:If you compare someone like Virgin Blue in Oz .........50 plus 737s in 7 years and making money. They just announced 7 777-300ers for international ops out of Oz. Going up against Qantas is no easy feat. I believe that with the 787 which is a game changer aircraft, WJ could make themselves a player in the Pacific rim. Yvr is getting busier every year, making it a prefered gateway into North America. Oneworld is coming sooner than later. Cargo is booming. Vancouver 2010 Olympics. The time is right.......look for WJ placing an order within 2 to 3 years. If not sooner.

There is a reason why Southwest has stuck to their model for 30 years! Sure they are leadin the industry in the States currently, but they know if they deviated from their model the big legacy carriers would burry them.
Same goes for westjet.... do you really think AirCanada(with Star alliances help) would just allow Westjet to move in on their turf.

Westjet will continue to do well as long as they stick to their game plan..... if they depart from that, then well I wouldnt expect westjet to be around for to long.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:44 pm

Four1oh wrote:and who's that?

Michel Leblanc

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Thu May 03, 2007 9:34 pm

Michel Leblanc

Ya, and he was so successful with Jetsgo that they just announced service to..... oh wait, didn't they go bankrupt!? (and Jetsgo never flew YVR-YYC)

There is a reason why Southwest has stuck to their model for 30 years! Sure they are leadin the industry in the States currently, but they know if they deviated from their model the big legacy carriers would burry them.
Same goes for westjet.... do you really think AirCanada(with Star alliances help) would just allow Westjet to move in on their turf.

Southwest is going to have to do something to improve its profits. Even with a magical fuel hedge, they had something like 4% yields in Q1. Middle of the pack.

. . · Post by **. .** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:17 pm

linebacker35 wrote:
sky1 wrote:If you compare someone like Virgin Blue in Oz .........50 plus 737s in 7 years and making money. They just announced 7 777-300ers for international ops out of Oz. Going up against Qantas is no easy feat. I believe that with the 787 which is a game changer aircraft, WJ could make themselves a player in the Pacific rim. Yvr is getting busier every year, making it a prefered gateway into North America. Oneworld is coming sooner than later. Cargo is booming. Vancouver 2010 Olympics. The time is right.......look for WJ placing an order within 2 to 3 years. If not sooner.
There is a reason why Southwest has stuck to their model for 30 years! Sure they are leadin the industry in the States currently, but they know if they deviated from their model the big legacy carriers would burry them.
Same goes for westjet.... do you really think AirCanada(with Star alliances help) would just allow Westjet to move in on their turf.

Westjet will continue to do well as long as they stick to their game plan..... if they depart from that, then well I wouldnt expect westjet to be around for to long.

Everyone said the same thing when westjet expanded out of YYC - YEG too. Then the same people said that a foothold in YYZ was the begining of the end. I certianly wouldn't put it past them to make something work.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:56 pm

It's inevitable that WJ will go bigger. Canada, the US, and the Carribean is only so big and we're eventually going to want to branch out further. We have ambitious plans to be in the top five most profitable international carriers by 2016; that's a pretty lofty goal considering we only have 65'ish aircraft flying no further than Hawaii to the west, the Carribean to the south, and St John's to the east.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:34 am

Every decision is based on 2 things... how will it affect the culture, and will it be profitable.

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:38 am

CanadaEH wrote:It's inevitable that WJ will go bigger. Canada, the US, and the Carribean is only so big and we're eventually going to want to branch out further. We have ambitious plans to be in the top five most profitable international carriers by 2016; that's a pretty lofty goal considering we only have 65'ish aircraft flying no further than Hawaii to the west, the Carribean to the south, and St John's to the east.

There is a reason why Southwest, Ryanair, easyjet, Jetblue, Frontier have stuck to flying around their own continent. If I remember correctly one of the so called golden rules of Lowcost carriers is ONE aircraft type...

Ya the US is only so big to, and the US domestic market is way over capacity at the moment, yet Southwest doesnt see the need to fly to Europe. Westjet has trouble with transborder even, because only canadians will fly on Westjet, Westjet does not have name recognition worldwide.
Right now in North America is the rise of the Lowcost carriers, this is not because they fought their way in. The domestic market has become undesirable for the big carriers so they have been reducing domestic service while increasing international(more profit).
And I can assure you Star Alliance with a combined fleet of 2778 planes would NOT let Westjet in the international market without a big fight.

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:46 am

endless wrote: Everyone said the same thing when westjet expanded out of YYC - YEG too. Then the same people said that a foothold in YYZ was the begining of the end. I certianly wouldn't put it past them to make something work.

I will admit that I thought that Westjet wouldnt make it out of YYZ, I was wrong then. But the International market is totaly differant. It would mean that Westjet would throw away their business plan completly and go up against the 900lb gorilla that has been an established international carrier for decades with partnerships with airlines around the world(International was always AC's concentration, Canadian concentrated on domestic)

I say westjet continue what they have been doing, its proven to work. Just continue to build a domestic empire and make nice big profits.

chief · Post by **chief** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:56 pm

linebacker35 wrote:And I can assure you Star Alliance with a combined fleet of 2778 planes would NOT let Westjet in the international market without a big fight.

Star Alliance doen't really have a say in the matter now do they? Besides being backed by some hefty carriers like BA, American and Cathay when the One World comes, I dont think WJ is quaking in their boots.

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:29 pm

chief wrote: Star Alliance doen't really have a say in the matter now do they? Besides being backed by some hefty carriers like BA, American and Cathay when the One World comes, I dont think WJ is quaking in their boots.

Star Alliance does have a say in the matter, it is in their best interest for AirCanada to keep their monopoly.
Anyway last time I checked WJ does not belong to OneWorld....

Look the WJ managment are not stupid, they know better then to pull some stupid stunt like flying overseas..

by the way BA wont be doing to good for much longer now that the British government stopped protecting their Heathrow hub

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:16 pm

linebacker35 wrote:
CanadaEH wrote:It's inevitable that WJ will go bigger. Canada, the US, and the Carribean is only so big and we're eventually going to want to branch out further. We have ambitious plans to be in the top five most profitable international carriers by 2016; that's a pretty lofty goal considering we only have 65'ish aircraft flying no further than Hawaii to the west, the Carribean to the south, and St John's to the east.
There is a reason why Southwest, Ryanair, easyjet, Jetblue, Frontier have stuck to flying around their own continent. If I remember correctly one of the so called golden rules of Lowcost carriers is ONE aircraft type...

Ya the US is only so big to, and the US domestic market is way over capacity at the moment, yet Southwest doesnt see the need to fly to Europe. Westjet has trouble with transborder even, because only canadians will fly on Westjet, Westjet does not have name recognition worldwide.
Right now in North America is the rise of the Lowcost carriers, this is not because they fought their way in. The domestic market has become undesirable for the big carriers so they have been reducing domestic service while increasing international(more profit).
And I can assure you Star Alliance with a combined fleet of 2778 planes would NOT let Westjet in the international market without a big fight.

Read the reports. Transborder is THE most profitable for WestJet.

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:21 pm

Borrowed from a 'friend' on another site.

Rank Operating Margins North America

Of those reported for Q1 2007 so far...

1 Republic 18.88%
2 WestJet 13.66% includes profit share
3 Northwest 7.00%
4 AMR 4.57%
5 US Airways 4.25%
6 MidWest 4.03%
7 Southwest 3.82%
8 Delta 3.74%
9 INDUSTRY 3.15%
10 Air Tran 2.66%
11 Continental 2.01%
12 United -2.10%
13 JetBlue -2.14%
14 Alaska -2.38%

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:02 pm

WJ700 wrote: Read the reports. Transborder is THE most profitable for WestJet.

I should have phrased that differantly, I meant overal WJ is weak on transborder next to AirCanada. AC is the #1 transborder carrier out of all north american airlines.

What I was trying to point out is that domestic is WJ's area of concentration while transborder and international are AirCanada's area of concentration.
The exact same thing is happening in the states, the big Legacy carriers are more then happy to reduce domestic capacity and let the low cost carriers have it(profit margin for domestic is really thin) while they increase profitable international capacity.

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:03 pm

damn double post

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:28 pm

but.... but, ain't it apples and bananas or somfing? Westjet is only a fraction the size of AC, so, when put into their proper ratios, how does WJ compare?

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:23 am

I should have phrased that differantly, I meant overal WJ is weak on transborder next to AirCanada. AC is the #1 transborder carrier out of all north american airlines.

I suppose Westjet is weak in terms of destinations and frequency, but profitability is another story. You don't expand to AC's size overnight. Baby steps, baby steps....

What I was trying to point out is that domestic is WJ's area of concentration while transborder and international are AirCanada's area of concentration.
The exact same thing is happening in the states, the big Legacy carriers are more then happy to reduce domestic capacity and let the low cost carriers have it(profit margin for domestic is really thin) while they increase profitable international capacity.

How do you define concentration? In the past two years we've been concentrating on transborder expansion. Our domestic network just happens to be big because of where we expanded in our first 10 years. Our main focus will continue to be expanding into the US and Carribean. Look for three more Carribean destinations to be announced for this winter... as scheduled service.

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:16 pm

Four1oh wrote:but.... but, ain't it apples and bananas or somfing? Westjet is only a fraction the size of AC, so, when put into their proper ratios, how does WJ compare?

That does not matter! American is twice the size of AirCanada yet AirCanada is still the #1 transborder carrier in North America.

American: 652 planes
NWA: 513
Delta:470
United:460
Continental: 366
USair:357
AirCanada: 337

Even tho AC is only the 7th largets airline in that does transborder... it is still the #1 transborder carrier.

Clearly size does not matter in this case

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:20 pm

So another way to look at this is that WestJet does have major room for transborder expansion. Kinda' like what every airline anayst is saying too.

linebacker35 · Post by **linebacker35** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:27 pm

WJ700 wrote:So another way to look at this is that WestJet does have major room for transborder expansion. Kinda' like what every airline anayst is saying too.

It will be impossible for WJ to fully compete with AC on transborder unless they start partnering up with some US carriers. AC has USair and United to feed the AC transborder.... WJ has no one. Sure it works out fine for WJ flying to nice sunny destinations(Florida, SOCAL) to fly canadians down for vacation, that market is only so big. Americans will continue to choose AC as their primary transborder carrier because of the connections they have set up in the US.
WJ needs to find a partner to be able to enter this market. Im sure American, Delta, NWA would jump at the oppritunity.... but I highly doubt that they would let WJ do the transborder flying, they would simpy use WJ as a connecter in Canada and handle the transborder themselves