http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ction.htmlViking restarts Twin Otter production
By Kate Sarsfield
The heritage de Havilland DHC-6 Twin Otter is making a comeback after two decades, following a decision by Canada’s Viking Air, which owns the type certificates for seven de Havilland heritage aircraft, to restart production.
The first aircraft in this latest generation of Twin Otters dubbed the Series 400, is scheduled to enter service in late 2008.
Victoria, British Columbia-based Viking says it may restart production of the single engine DHC-3 Otter and possibly the DHC-2 Beaver following strong market demand for both aircraft.
“Our decision to restart production of the Twin Otter is based on three elements”, says David Curtis, president and chief executive of Viking Air. Having a large enough order book, board and shareholder approval and finally securing research and development (R&D) funding from the Canadian government. “We have two out of three so far and we are confident the federal government will approve the R&D funding the next 30 days,” says Curtis.
Viking had set a figure of around 12 orders as a benchmark to restarting production, Curtis says but the company has secured 27 orders and options already, half for seaplane configured Twin Otters. “Global demand for the [13-19 seat] Twin Otter has proved phenomenal,” Curtis says. “This is a very popular aircraft globally as there is no comparable model available on the market.”
A total of 844 turboprop Twin Otters were manufactured in DHC's Downsview, Toronto factory between 1965 and 1988, and more than 600 are in operation worldwide.
The Series 400 will have more powerful Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-34/35 turboprops, advanced materials such as a modern composite nose section and a glass cockpit.
Twin Otters going back into production.
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Panama Jack
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Twin Otters going back into production.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
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Around 3.4 million. I was at the forum in Sept. Going to be pretty much a 300 series aircraft. But all SB's will be incorp and many industry norm STC's will be incorp.
Also the -34's will be standard. But still limited to 50 psi. They will also offer -27s if a customer wants them. So that his fleet can be standard.
It's great news for 300 operators. As the parts supply will increase and possibly the rare parts won't be soo damm expensive.
Avionics and paint are above the sticker price. To be carried at at a Viking completion centre or your own shop.
Also the -34's will be standard. But still limited to 50 psi. They will also offer -27s if a customer wants them. So that his fleet can be standard.
It's great news for 300 operators. As the parts supply will increase and possibly the rare parts won't be soo damm expensive.
Avionics and paint are above the sticker price. To be carried at at a Viking completion centre or your own shop.
Don't be disgruntled....move on!
Twin Otter makes a comeback
By Leithen Francis
Air Seychelles is to be a launch customer for Viking Air’s new derivative of the de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter, dubbed the Series 400.
The decision means that production of the highly successful utility-passenger turboprop, which first flew in 1965, will be resumed after a break of 18 years. Air Seychelles has ordered two aircraft with a third on option.
Delivery of the new aircraft is set for early 2009. More than 800 of the original 19-seat Series 300 version were built. The type has a reputation for reliability and operational flexibility, and in 2001 was chosen as the only aircraft capable of performing the South Pole evacuation flight of a critical patient under extreme -60°C conditions.
Viking Air, a Canadian aircraft parts and maintenance company, already maintains de Havilland Canada aircraft and in 2005 it bought all of the de Havilland designs and certificates from Bombardier Aircraft, with the exception of the Dash 8’s.
Viking says the new version will generally follow the same design as the -300 variant but will feature a glass cockpit, multi-function displays and more powerful and efficient Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-34 engines. The aircraft will also use of composites for some secondary structures such as doors, nose sections and fairings.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... eback.html
By Leithen Francis
Air Seychelles is to be a launch customer for Viking Air’s new derivative of the de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter, dubbed the Series 400.
The decision means that production of the highly successful utility-passenger turboprop, which first flew in 1965, will be resumed after a break of 18 years. Air Seychelles has ordered two aircraft with a third on option.
Delivery of the new aircraft is set for early 2009. More than 800 of the original 19-seat Series 300 version were built. The type has a reputation for reliability and operational flexibility, and in 2001 was chosen as the only aircraft capable of performing the South Pole evacuation flight of a critical patient under extreme -60°C conditions.
Viking Air, a Canadian aircraft parts and maintenance company, already maintains de Havilland Canada aircraft and in 2005 it bought all of the de Havilland designs and certificates from Bombardier Aircraft, with the exception of the Dash 8’s.
Viking says the new version will generally follow the same design as the -300 variant but will feature a glass cockpit, multi-function displays and more powerful and efficient Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-34 engines. The aircraft will also use of composites for some secondary structures such as doors, nose sections and fairings.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... eback.html
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cumufsumyunguy
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That's a bit dissapointing to hear that they'll be going to a glass cockpit. A huge part of the success of DeHavillands is simple rugged dependability...why mess with that? I'm not saying that glass isn't dependable but it's not simple or easy on the wallet and the kind of companies that might be inclined to use these aircraft and the environments where they're used...it might be prohibitive to have the added complexity and the extra expense of spares no? Maybe i'm outdated but I think it's the kind of technology that benefits pilots more than companies and companies are the ones buying aircraft...maybe it should be optional at the most?
No I disagree. I dont see any problem with upgrading to a glass cockpit, would be foolish not to. The Twin Otter is not going to see any environment more adverse than offshore helicopters and S-76's, Bell 412's and AW139's all come with glass cockpits.
The system required for a Twin Otter will be simple and the complexity issue is simply not valid. All the term "glass cockpit" means is 4 or 5 displays. The system integration is easily done at the GA level and as long as Viking does not try to go beyond that, which it sounds they are not, then it will be a fantastic machine. I hope they do very well with it!
As for spares, a modern avionics suite reduces the amount of spares required. People put too much value in the words "glass cockpit". There are suites available that are simple, tried, tested and reliable.
The system required for a Twin Otter will be simple and the complexity issue is simply not valid. All the term "glass cockpit" means is 4 or 5 displays. The system integration is easily done at the GA level and as long as Viking does not try to go beyond that, which it sounds they are not, then it will be a fantastic machine. I hope they do very well with it!
As for spares, a modern avionics suite reduces the amount of spares required. People put too much value in the words "glass cockpit". There are suites available that are simple, tried, tested and reliable.
Obviously you've never seen the corrosion problems in a tropical climate..
Been there, done that, got the t-shirts.. Glass cockpit will be a problem in that enviroment.. Shit the airplane only gets out of the water every month or so.. Helicopters only fly over it.. Not even a close comparison..
Been there, done that, got the t-shirts.. Glass cockpit will be a problem in that enviroment.. Shit the airplane only gets out of the water every month or so.. Helicopters only fly over it.. Not even a close comparison..
With regards to the avionics it does not matter if the aircraft sits in the water all year. A properly installed and maintainted avionics suite will do just fine. The LRU's are not sitting in water. The corrosion you refer to will not affect the displays, it will affect the connectors. Analog units use the same connectors. Proper maintenance is the key.
And obviously you have never spent much time in the rotary world. Between offshore, oil & gas and the military there is not much left to test these units for. The Twin Otter is not special in this regard. If maintained properly, there is no environment a modern digital system can not handle. The analog systems with spinning gyros and rotating needles are much more prone to corrosion than digital laser ring gyros, which is the big difference between the analog and glass cockpits - moving parts vs no moving parts.
And obviously you have never spent much time in the rotary world. Between offshore, oil & gas and the military there is not much left to test these units for. The Twin Otter is not special in this regard. If maintained properly, there is no environment a modern digital system can not handle. The analog systems with spinning gyros and rotating needles are much more prone to corrosion than digital laser ring gyros, which is the big difference between the analog and glass cockpits - moving parts vs no moving parts.
Gyro's are notoriously finicky when you abuse them. ie bouncing the shit out of them on float ops, off field etc.... AHRS and EFIS have a much lower MTBF. In addition they don't tend to use ac115, another link in the chain that can't break. I'd like to see the write up on the whole suite.
The hardest thing about going to glass is going to be crew transition, not maintenance, most guys that have chosen to stay on the twin otter probably never thought they would be flying glass. In the short term guys will hate it, then love it and not want to go back to the old machines.
Hey even CAT is putting glass in his cub
Old dogs can learn new tricks.
On the bight side the 200 hr pilots who spend that extra 10/hr to fly the G-1000 panel in training will have "glass time" and can be the new f/o.
Hey even CAT is putting glass in his cub
Old dogs can learn new tricks. On the bight side the 200 hr pilots who spend that extra 10/hr to fly the G-1000 panel in training will have "glass time" and can be the new f/o.
Twotter, I have to disagree with you. Countries like France, Italy, Greece, Spain have all been operating their CL fleets in salt water for years now with no problems showing up with the glass cockpits so I can't see the Twin Otter being any different.
Glass in now cheaper in most cases than an old analog panel and as mentioned also a weight savings. I'm willing to bet theTwin Otters in the Maldives will have less instrument problems than they do now with the old analogs with spinning gyros.
Glass in now cheaper in most cases than an old analog panel and as mentioned also a weight savings. I'm willing to bet theTwin Otters in the Maldives will have less instrument problems than they do now with the old analogs with spinning gyros.
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
that article is not accurate.
Glass cockpit is a customer option. Not the way it is being delivered.
As I said above the avionic is up to the customer.
They will however have better engine instruments more in digital method. Which is good. AS in the originals I have seen the effects of corrosion on these transmitters and instruments in the salt water environment the old ones just don't last. .
EFIS systems would not be a good idea in the Maldives. Sure a EHSI would be ok. But the complexity of those instruments is not ideal either. Ever program a Sandle 3500? Beautiful instrument but 16 pages of settings is going to drive a guy nuts in the dives.
VFR planes don't need glass. Especially when water ingresses in the windows on landing
Glass cockpit is a customer option. Not the way it is being delivered.
As I said above the avionic is up to the customer.
They will however have better engine instruments more in digital method. Which is good. AS in the originals I have seen the effects of corrosion on these transmitters and instruments in the salt water environment the old ones just don't last. .
EFIS systems would not be a good idea in the Maldives. Sure a EHSI would be ok. But the complexity of those instruments is not ideal either. Ever program a Sandle 3500? Beautiful instrument but 16 pages of settings is going to drive a guy nuts in the dives.
VFR planes don't need glass. Especially when water ingresses in the windows on landing
Don't be disgruntled....move on!
Yep installed Sandel units and the programming was done once after the installation. Not something that you do that often after installaion. If the operator is really that fussed about it, it is easy to setup a test harness and program a bunch of spares at one time, but that seems like a make work project.
There are better routes to go as well with memory modules and configuration plugs installed on the airframe side. A proper installation will not pose a problem. As CLguy pointed out other airframes do just fine in similar environments. Obviously Viking has already thought about the hesitation from the old boys if they are offering different configurations.
But most importantly it is good to see the Twin Otter back in production and another Canadian manufacturer.
There are better routes to go as well with memory modules and configuration plugs installed on the airframe side. A proper installation will not pose a problem. As CLguy pointed out other airframes do just fine in similar environments. Obviously Viking has already thought about the hesitation from the old boys if they are offering different configurations.
But most importantly it is good to see the Twin Otter back in production and another Canadian manufacturer.
Gli, the difference between a helicopter sitting on the deck and a twin otter sitting in the acid bath is incredible. The difference between the north sea and the Indian ocean is like night and day. The way everything corrodes in that enviroment is incredible. Unless you've seen it you would not believe it. I just think that the kiss principal should prevail in that enviroment. I will guarantee you that the failure rate of screens etc would be unacceptable in that area.. Due to corrosion..
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still_bluenoser
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twotter wrote:Gli, the difference between a helicopter sitting on the deck and a twin otter sitting in the acid bath is incredible. The difference between the north sea and the Indian ocean is like night and day. The way everything corrodes in that enviroment is incredible. Unless you've seen it you would not believe it. I just think that the kiss principal should prevail in that enviroment. I will guarantee you that the failure rate of screens etc would be unacceptable in that area.. Due to corrosion..
Your not really saying that the old systems are immune to corrosion?
As mentioned earlier, ALL systems require good maintenance.
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pilotwhoisneverhome
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No, I'm not saying that the old systems are immune to corrosion problems. However, the glass systems are more prone to problems with the corrosion you will get on pins, connectors etc. There is so much data going to your glass cockpit which all have electrical connections that are prone to corrosion that I can't see where there won't be problems. The least little bit of corrosion on a connection can cause a problem and IMHO I just don't think glass is the way to go.
Clguy, how often do the operators of the CL fleet leave their airplanes sitting in the salt water overnight? Remember, the airplane basically becomes a battery when it does that. It's a lot different when it sits on the ramp at an airport.
We can all agree to disagree on this, but I'll give you dollars to doughnuts that the glass cockpit will give you more problems in that enviroment.
Clguy, how often do the operators of the CL fleet leave their airplanes sitting in the salt water overnight? Remember, the airplane basically becomes a battery when it does that. It's a lot different when it sits on the ramp at an airport.
We can all agree to disagree on this, but I'll give you dollars to doughnuts that the glass cockpit will give you more problems in that enviroment.
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200hr Wonder
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Ok can I ask a seemingly stupid question? How well does glass work in the high arctic? I know modern consumer grade LCDs and Plasma displays do not do well when very cold and can freeze and crack. Is this problem present in the aircraft grade displays going into glass cockpits? At very least it takes quite a period of time before the screens are warm enough to give anything like decent refresh rate without ghosting so bad that you can not read the display. Perhaps there will be a preheat procedure for the avionics panel?
I am not sure how the North Sea worked its way into this, I never mentioned it. As far as my comparison I was thinking of machines I have worked on out of the GOF, Belize, Central America, India, Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, Fiji and Japan. Some on land, some on platforms, some on boats, some on floats. All are quite humid places and the machines all have extra maintenance to deal wth it. And a lot of them had efis and modern avionics installed.
Twotter I think we are saying the same thing in that the connections will be a problem. Connectors have always been a problem for avionics and electronics. I disagree with your post about an efis installation.
You wrote :"There is so much data going to your glass cockpit which all have electrical connections that are prone to corrosion that I can't see where there won't be problems."
Yes there is a lot of data but it all goes down 1 or 2 A429 lines. The wire count can be drastically reduced for a simple installation that is applicable to the Twin Otter. Therefore less wires, less chances for corrosion and easier maintenance.
You're bang on that keeping it simple is the way to go and an EFIS panel taking all the instruments of an analog panel and putting them onto 4 or 5 screens is much more simple. No gyro's, no needles, less wires. EFIS, from an avionics point of view is not complicated. For a mechanic or pilot it might appear so but it is not. As someone pointed out there will likely be more effort needed to bring some pilots up to speed.
The boards in the screens themselves are all coated and I have seen units come out of submerged aircraft that did not have corrosion on the boards, but on the connectors as mentioned before.
Twotter I think we are saying the same thing in that the connections will be a problem. Connectors have always been a problem for avionics and electronics. I disagree with your post about an efis installation.
You wrote :"There is so much data going to your glass cockpit which all have electrical connections that are prone to corrosion that I can't see where there won't be problems."
Yes there is a lot of data but it all goes down 1 or 2 A429 lines. The wire count can be drastically reduced for a simple installation that is applicable to the Twin Otter. Therefore less wires, less chances for corrosion and easier maintenance.
You're bang on that keeping it simple is the way to go and an EFIS panel taking all the instruments of an analog panel and putting them onto 4 or 5 screens is much more simple. No gyro's, no needles, less wires. EFIS, from an avionics point of view is not complicated. For a mechanic or pilot it might appear so but it is not. As someone pointed out there will likely be more effort needed to bring some pilots up to speed.
The boards in the screens themselves are all coated and I have seen units come out of submerged aircraft that did not have corrosion on the boards, but on the connectors as mentioned before.
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Cat Driver
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True, old Cats can be taught new tricks." Hey even CAT is putting glass in his cub Old dogs can learn new tricks. "
I first started with this glass stuff in my Geronimo in 1988 when I installed a moving map display in it and then in 1998 I did the full conversion course to glass in Toulouse at the Airbus factory.
The move from steam to glass was a non event and glass is Galaxies ahead of steam.
But maybe I'm not your normal everyday old Cat?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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dun my time
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215 and415 in salt water
[quote="CLguy"]Twotter, I have to disagree with you. Countries like France, Italy, Greece, Spain have all been operating their CL fleets in salt water for years now with no problems showing up with the glass cockpits so I can't see the Twin Otter being any different.
Glass in now cheaper in most cases than an old analog panel and as mentioned also a weight savings. I'm willing to bet theTwin Otters in the Maldives will have less instrument problems than they do now with the old analogs with spinning gyros.[/quote]
Glass in now cheaper in most cases than an old analog panel and as mentioned also a weight savings. I'm willing to bet theTwin Otters in the Maldives will have less instrument problems than they do now with the old analogs with spinning gyros.[/quote]
