OK so here is a touchy subject I am sure all instructors and schools face.

Last night there was a scheduled power shutdown at work for me that was suppose to be over at 8pm but due to various circumstances I did not get home till well after 2am. I was scheduled to fly at 10:00am this morning.

I was awoken at 6am with various problems, and again at 7am and finally at 8am for my flight by my alarm. I got up checked the weather did the normal wake up routine stuff and decided that I was too tired to a. benefit from the flight and b. conduct it safely. So I called the school at 8:30 or so to cancel. I had a second flight booked for 1pm which I did do after a few more hours sleep. When I got there I found out that I had been charged the now show fee. I am a bit miffed about this.

I have been flying at that school for a year and a half have never missed a flight, and extremely flexible when it comes to me being put out or having to change plans by moving planes, flights and so on. Some times this happens at the last moment. I know it sucks as an instructor for a student to no show for no real good reason but what ever happened to good will? It was my first flight in about six months there with a new CFI but none the less.

Oh and I am an instructor as well so I have been on both sides of the fence. So I am taking a pole...

I always gave my students one freebie. Life happens. We all have to deal with it.

Karma man, don't mess with it!

With an established track record as a good customer. The fee should not have applied. The school could have reminded you of there policy when you showed up later in the day for the afternoon flight In a nice and tactful way. If this was the second time within say 3 months. The fee could reasonably be charged.
A policy like this would apply to many businesses. And the value of 'good will' to the customer usually outweighs the benefit of a penalty surcharge.

Better yet the CFI did not say gee, we need to charge you a now show she just wrote it on the billing sheet and never told me.

If they were going to do it, the least they could have done is told you that they were going to bill you for it. Especially considering that you have a good track record, would they rather you come in and fly tired for the sake of avoiding the cancellation fee?

happily.retired wrote:I always gave my students one freebie. Life happens. We all have to deal with it.

Karma man, don't mess with it!

What he said.

My feelings is that if you have some people who do it more than once or twice you got to bill them becuase now that person has taken that instructor and or aircraft from another person who would have shown up. Look at the dentist or doctors office they also charge no show fees for the same reasons you take the doctor away from someone who would have shown up.

niwre wrote:My feelings is that if you have some people who do it more than once or twice you got to bill them becuase now that person has taken that instructor and or aircraft from another person who would have shown up. Look at the dentist or doctors office they also charge no show fees for the same reasons you take the doctor away from someone who would have shown up.

Not if you rebook a few hours later....

Max

I voted that you should not be charged, but not for the reason offered in the poll.

You were too tired to fly. If the company is charging you a no-show fee, then they are penalizing you for acting with the regulations and safety in mind.

It sucks for the FTU, but one risk that operators manage in this game is the chance that their flights will not go due to pilot fatigue.

Not sure if anyone else sees it this way, but I think, given your fatigue, you made the right decision and any reasonable CFI should accept that and not charge you.

This is a give-and-take thing. You hadn't flown for 6 months, perhaps when it began to be a late night you could have called the school, yet to know when not to fly is just as important as the other stuff (ask Cat).

I, personally, with your track record, would tell them to pound sand; they just killed the golden goose. Course if there are no other schools around I would negotiate, suggesting that I will travel to do my multi and my IFR and float rating with somebody else.

Charging a no show fee in this circumstance just re affirms the fact that flight schools are not in the buisness to train pilots, They are here to MAKE MONEY!!

Have you seen the poor quality of pilots the flight schools are churning out these days?

Strega wrote:Charging a no show fee in this circumstance just re affirms the fact that flight schools are not in the buisness to train pilots, They are here to MAKE MONEY!!

Have you seen the poor quality of pilots the flight schools are churning out these days?

Of course they are trying to make money. They do so by training pilots. I could not imagine someone opening a business not to make money.

Late charge, well if the guy is cronic at this sure, no problem. If time is tight and many people are calling for a training slot and you have to turn them down, sure- now you are sitting around for two hours not getting paid. charge the no-show. If however someone calls, or you can contact someone to take the slot, there is no loss, no need to charge late fees.

If its been slow, and there are lots of empty slots, and not many people calling, nah, I would not bother. Just get them in at a different time.

And, no. to answer your question. I have not seen this.

I would negotiate, suggesting that I will travel to do my multi and my IFR and float rating with somebody else

I agree. If you have a good record..take your business somewhere else. Too many flight schools see customers as only Students/Rental pilots...and not BOTH. If I had my own school it would be equal ground...especially because there's quite a bit of $ involved with flying. It was your first time, you re-booked that same day, they're still getting your business...whats the problem with a freebie? Some schools in my experience really need to wake up and understand that.

If you feel your not being treated like a customer...go somewhere else. I did that..for that exact reason, and the school I left too and trained with are stand up people/professionals and will probably only rent/train with them. Im glad the one school I was with tried to screw me over...because I found a way better one in the end!

No-shows have to be treated with common sense. If my student cancels on me at short notice due to an unforseen circumstance then I don't give them static. It's just not good customer relations. However, if the fellow just plain forgets to show up a few times, or the problem becomes cronic, I'll charge a no show. If they give me static about it I suggest they find a new instructor.

I suggest they find a new instructor.

I have to agree, that's probably always good advice for you to give your students

Next time they cancel on you last-minute due to an instructor no-show or a mechanical, charge them a fee. Your time is worth something too. BTW how much was the fee they charged?

yeah yeah wrote:Next time they cancel on you last-minute due to an instructor no-show or a mechanical, charge them a fee. Your time is worth something too. BTW how much was the fee they charged?

And how much did the actual instructor get paid?

Edited.

I've decided to remove this post.

I think the student should be adult enough to discuss this problem with the CFI directly instead of pussyfooting around and whining on Avcanada.

Seriously. I know we need to vent, but grow up!

Oh, and yeah yeah....

Use your head buddy. You're going to charge the school because the airplane goes mechanical? Would you rather sign a waiver to take the mechanical aircraft. WOW!

Of course not. Then again I wouldn't expect an instructor to fly with someone, knowing they had two hour's sleep either. All I'm saying is that sh*t happens, and if the flight school wants to be compensated for unforeseen occurences, then maybe the student should be also.

Yes stuff does happen. It wasn't your instructor's fault though. It was yours. I usually give people a break on the first one, but if it happens again, they get charged one half of the instructor time for the booking. Chronic no-shows get the full time slot charge. Our policy says if you cancel with less than 24 hours notice you will get charged. It doesn't say you'll get charged unless you're too sleepy, hung over, drunk or in a bad mood.

It isn't easy to replace that booking on short notice. If your school has a no-show policy in place, and you were told about it, then there is no reason to expect a break. If you get one, great. If not, take responsibility and pay up. That would be the reasonable thing to do. Your fault, your responsibility, your wallet gets lighter. Why is this so hard?

well, it's good to see that someone agrees about taking responsibility.

I am quite sick of people bitching that they shouldn't be held responsible because it's not their fault they were tired (hung over, late, blah blah blah).

If you choose to not show, you should pay for not showing.

Foxtrot wrote:Edited.

I've decided to remove this post.

I think the student should be adult enough to discuss this problem with the CFI directly instead of pussyfooting around and whining on Avcanada.

Seriously. I know we need to vent, but grow up!

First of all, I had not talked to the CFI since the flight in question, and was indeed a little choked, so I decided rather than call the CFI pissed of and perhaps cause an unnecessary confrontation to consult with some of my colleagues in aviation before making the call. As for pussyfooting around and whining on Avcanada, I did not mention the school or the CFI, if you people have managed to put two and two together and guess who it is, well that is the result of a small community and if because of that I some how embarrassed or upset said CFI I am sorry.

Personally if I have an issue that I find troubling at the time, I often will not bring it up at the time because emotions and and other extraneous things are happening, I like to take it off line give it some rational thought and then respond. In this case the getting called and working till 2am the previous night and then working till Midnight on the Sunday had elevated my stress level to where I was more than likely not thinking clearly, so I thought I would let it settle for a few days, see what my colleagues here at Avcanada thought and then formulate a plan of action. I simply stated the situation as clearly as I could and with all relevant facts that I had and asked for peoples opinions on the situation, I did not whine as you say. Whining would have been an uncalled for rant about so and so charging me a now show fee blah blah blah. I thought I was using a discussion board for the purpose for which it was intended.

wow! I didn't think something like this could cause such a huge stink.

I don't understand how someone would think that they could call in and cancel a flight with less than 24 hours notice and not get charged!?!? I don't know of any businesses out there that don't charge. Dentists, lawyers... it's just a way of life. I would expect that if I follow through on an action, I should suffer the consequences. If I don't give the correct amount of notice, I expect a no show fee.

Are you now saying that if I go out and get hammered one night, then cancel my flight because I'm hung -over (a good decision, right?), that I shouldn't get charged? Making me fly would be a stupid safety decision, but I knew I would not be able to fly when I had that 9th beer. Why should my instructor be made to not get paid because I like a few drinks?

I think as mature people, we should understand that we need to own up to our mistakes. Suck it up and pay the fee.

Bill

You dont see a difference between choosing to get drunk and having to work late?

That being said if it was your first cancellation, and due to the circumstances given, I would have given it as a freebie.