Liberal "Save the Taliban" Campaign

Springbok 3 · Post by **Springbok 3** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:05 pm

What is it with these pricks getting their tits in a flap about the alleged abuse of Taliban prisoners by their own people.

One of two things should happen to these prisoners:

Scenario 1 is capture and interrogate them, get as much info from them and then line them up gainst a wall and bullet the SOB`s. One less fucking Haji bastard to plant EIDS against Canadian troops.

Scenario 2 is to hand them over to the Afghan authorities and let them handle them in a manner suited to scumbag terrorists. Build a prison high in the mountains and place a "no press" kill zone 100 km around this holding facility. I mean, how stupid can we all be to have these Taliban pieces of shit in Khandahar where they have access to the red Cross, UNHCR, Human rights Commissions and worst of all, the fucking left wing Commie Liberal CTV, CBC and Toronto Post bastards.

I have never in my life witnessed such a load of crock dished up at Parliamentary level by an opposition grouping that seemingly latches onto the smallest infringement and turns it into a Government bashing and discrediting exercise. What dont these bastards understand about war? Do they think it is a game where the defeated sides goes home for tea and cookies like a paintball session?

Dont the Libs realize that these are the fuckers that have been murdering our Canadian sons and daughters? Do they not understand what Canada is doing in the country and why do they not concentrate on the positive aspects that make it easier for these soldiers to do their jobs? Who is the fucking enemy anyway? I think it is these cnuts back home with the their microphones and left wing rags

Can someone enlighten me and help me to undestand all this crap?

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:41 pm

While I may or not agree with some of your solutions, you have to remember that they are politicians, god help them if they offend anyone, they might lose a vote..

Our politicians have lost sight of the real reason they are there. They are supposed to represent us, however between party protocal and lobbyists, they end up being pawns. All they care about is getting re-elected for a long enough term to collect their pension. They are too busy kissing ass to realise the real problems that we Canadians face.

. . · Post by **. .** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:43 pm

where does it become not okay then? Was the american phoenix program ran by the CIA during vietnam okay to you?

Where does unacceptable begin?

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:28 am

Springbok, I bet Hitler or Saddam would have liked your scenarios, Canadians are PEACE keepers not criminals, remember that most Canadians are peace loving people and they wouldn't commit such crimes!!

I suggest this thread to be deleted,it is just awful.

wingtip · Post by **wingtip** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:23 am

I am afraid the world has been casterated when it comes to dealing with issues like this Springbok.

I think the US should do it though. That way we are not stuck holding the bag for generations as we were with the Japanese after WW2.

Springbok 3 · Post by **Springbok 3** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:12 am

Pilot_adam wrote:Springbok, I bet Hitler or Saddam would have liked your scenarios, Canadians are PEACE keepers not criminals, remember that most Canadians are peace loving people and they wouldn't commit such crimes!!

I suggest this thread to be deleted,it is just awful.

Listen squirt, if you cannot stand the heat, stay out of the fucking kitchen and post your whining crap somewhere else.

It is a relevant issue that demands debate because as we speak, the liberal Taliban ass kissing politicians are showing greater concern for the murdering, suicidal bomb planting terrorist bastards than they ever showed over the loss of Canadian troops.

Adam, never forget who these people are that have been complaining about their mistreatment under Afghan police. These are people who will not hesitate to blow up innocent civilians with lethal IED`s. As perpetrators of terror, they should lose all human rights and claims to civilised treatment under a "Geneva Convention". They have the audacity to claim human rights abuse but are more than prepared to slaughter innocents under the name of Islam.

Also, please tell me how one extracts information from die hard terrorists without a little "rough" treatment and "persuasion". It is people like yourself that need to get a grip on the harsh reality of the situation and start treating Afghanistan like the full blown combat zone it is. I say let the local militia handle their local criminals in their own way and do not intevene. Once Canada has handed these scumbags over, it should no longer be a Canadian problem.

And for the record Adam, the Canadians in Afghanistan are no longer peace keepers so pull your head from the sand. Canada is at war and the quicker you and the rest of the liberal politicians and press come to that reality, the better for those brave soldiers paying the ultimate sacrifice.

2R · Post by 2R » Tue May 01, 2007 5:59 am

No prisoners No problems

We do not have enough troops to run a daycare system overthere for terrorists.We would need conscription to man the job so everyone who does not want to fight anymore can surrender.

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:29 am

Springbok 3 wrote:What is it with these pricks getting their tits in a flap about the alleged abuse of Taliban prisoners by their own people.

One of two things should happen to these prisoners:

Scenario 1 is capture and interrogate them, get as much info from them and then line them up gainst a wall and bullet the SOB`s. One less fucking Haji bastard to plant EIDS against Canadian troops.

Scenario 2 is to hand them over to the Afghan authorities and let them handle them in a manner suited to scumbag terrorists. Build a prison high in the mountains and place a "no press" kill zone 100 km around this holding facility. I mean, how stupid can we all be to have these Taliban pieces of shit in Khandahar where they have access to the red Cross, UNHCR, Human rights Commissions and worst of all, the fucking left wing Commie Liberal CTV, CBC and Toronto Post bastards.

I have never in my life witnessed such a load of crock dished up at Parliamentary level by an opposition grouping that seemingly latches onto the smallest infringement and turns it into a Government bashing and discrediting exercise. What dont these bastards understand about war? Do they think it is a game where the defeated sides goes home for tea and cookies like a paintball session?

Dont the Libs realize that these are the fuckers that have been murdering our Canadian sons and daughters? Do they not understand what Canada is doing in the country and why do they not concentrate on the positive aspects that make it easier for these soldiers to do their jobs? Who is the fucking enemy anyway? I think it is these cnuts back home with the their microphones and left wing rags

Can someone enlighten me and help me to undestand all this crap?

Spoken like a true Taliban. That's exactly what the other side is telling it's guys before they strap bombs on themselves. My cause is righteous, therefore all means are justified.

Also, please not that the world is not as simple as you paint it. Some of the prisoners transferred are not convicted terrorists, they are only suspected of commiting a crime (sometimes not even related to the Taliban). For example, just yesterday a farmer was transferred to the Afghan authorities by Canadian forces because he had too much money on him, and they thought it was suspicious. He kept claiming it was money from selling his crops, but the Canadians didn't want to risk it, so they figured they would transfer him to the Afghan authorities to investigate.

What do we do with cases like that? Torture them anyway just to be on the safe side? What about those who haven't been convicted of crimes yet? Torture them to? What about those who look at us funny? Heck, let's not take a chance let's torture them to.

How righteous would our cause be if we're fighting in the name of freedom, equality and human rights, but in the process we're violating every principle we are fighting for?

Remember, it's easy to become like the ennemy you are fighting.

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:59 am

2R wrote:No prisoners No problems

We do not have enough troops to run a daycare system overthere for terrorists

Then maybe we should get the F**K out. duhhhh

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:48 am

Listen squirt, if you cannot stand the heat, stay out of the fucking kitchen and post your whining crap somewhere else.

I sure can stand the heat and this is why I am a peace activist, There are far too many kids dieing everyday in our world because of wars that shouldn't have been started (Afghanistan, Iraq, Darfur etc) ...

t is a relevant issue that demands debate because as we speak, the liberal Taliban ass kissing politicians are showing greater concern for the murdering, suicidal bomb planting terrorist bastards than they ever showed over the loss of Canadian troops.

The liberals are just trying to protect what Canada stands for,remember who kept Canada out of the war in Iraq ....

Adam, never forget who these people are that have been complaining about their mistreatment under Afghan police. These are people who will not hesitate to blow up innocent civilians with lethal IED`s. As perpetrators of terror, they should lose all human rights and claims to civilised treatment under a "Geneva Convention". They have the audacity to claim human rights abuse but are more than prepared to slaughter innocents under the name of Islam.

If those get a fair trail under their law and get convicted, then whatever. but as we know the Afghans are not ready for it, and too many innocent people would be killed in the process.

Also, please tell me how one extracts information from die hard terrorists without a little "rough" treatment and "persuasion"

From your posts (being a little too harsh) I don't really understand what LITTLE torture means to you, Have you been tortured or tortured before to realize the difference?? torture is torture.

it is people like yourself that need to get a grip on the harsh reality of the situation and start treating Afghanistan like the full blown combat zone it is

It is people like myself that want to stop the "full blown combat zones" and bring the troops home where they belong.

say let the local militia handle their local criminals in their own way and do not intevene. Once Canada has handed these scumbags over, it should no longer be a Canadian problem.

Huh, so what was the point from going there to start with, how about Canada pulls the troops out then this whole war is not a Canadian problem...

And for the record Adam, the Canadians in Afghanistan are no longer peace keepers so pull your head from the sand. Canada is at war and the quicker you and the rest of the liberal politicians and press come to that reality, the better for those brave soldiers paying the ultimate sacrifice.

I know few friends who either were in Afghanistan or still there and they told me how Canadian troops (alone from the others) are well liked in Afghanistan. Canadians help building hospitals and schools,Canadians offer humanitarian and medical help and support for the Afghani people who suffered under the Taliban regime,so sure they are peace keepers.

God Bless Canada

JakeYYZ · Post by **JakeYYZ** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:22 pm

corporate joe: You are right. Institutionalizing torture is a very bad idea for this country...which is why I am against it (it is not because I care about al Qaeda). It is counter-productive.

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:00 pm

Ok, a few points you liberals need to remember while your jumping on the get out of Afganistan band wagan.

1. YOU (ie liberals) put us there! with the help of the NDP no less, its your mission! you picked Kandahar.

2. YOU (ie liberals) went on a cross country tour telling Canadians that there would be plenty of casualties, but guess what, Canadians didnt listen, they figured it would be like every other deployment in recent history.

3. YOU (ie liberals) supported in the house to extend the mission till 2009

NATO! do you understand what this is, and that we are a part of it?

We dont have the troops to deal with Prisoners, so we hand them over to the Afganis, its their country btw. So there are allegations of abuse, ok definitly, something we should look into.

However, why dont you come up with some constructive sugestions? We are in Afganistan, pulling the troops out tommorrow is not a reasonable solution.
YOU (ie liberals) keep telling us that Canada does not want an election, so why not suspend the rhetoric and Bullshit and make this minority Government work

Floats

Icebound · Post by **Icebound** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:58 pm

Floats wrote:... pulling the troops out tommorrow is not a reasonable solution.

Well, that depends.

I support(ed) the Afghan mission, and still do, sort of.

But let us review...

We go in to root out a repressive regime and to help find and bring to justice a particular scumbag which it was supporting.

In 2002, the Taliban had nowhere to run since the entire Arab (and Persian) world was on our side. Once they were rooted out of Afghanistan, it should have been a relatively simple thing to KEEP them disorganized and out. Rebuilding should have been a relatively easy prospect.

Out of the blue, our well-meaning neighbours decide to go off on a pet project of their own.... engaging resources that may have been useful inside Afghanistan, (plus useful for pressuring Pakistan)...

... but worst of all: opening up a big void for Taliban supporters to pour into and regroup. (and creating NEW supporters which never existed before)

So five years later we are almost back to square one.

And the Afghan "democratic" government itself is not helping:

http://www.skyreporter.com/

So, the dillemma is:
Do we continue to beat our head against a brick wall for another 5 years...keep throwing good money after bad?... or do we cut our losses now?

No matter which side of the debate you choose, it is sure to be the "wrong" side.... because increasingly, this is becoming a no-win situation.

Maybe leaving Afghans to fend for themselves will bring the issue to a head a lot quicker and force them to find their own solution. Just like the atom bomb over Hiroshima, maybe such shock treatment would "stop the war" a lot quicker.

Maybe not. But let's at least be sure that we know what we are fighting for. Are we there to reconstruct the country and get the people back on their feet? Or are we there just to help prop up one more dubious government?

The former, and I might continue a grudging support.
But is it starting to look more like the latter???

...

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:33 pm

I think one of the ways we differentiate ourselves from the enemy and therefore help justify our existence in Afghanistan is to not treat prisoners badly.

I don't want Canadians to be there, I think they should all come home, but as nobody is listening to me, I think we should treat the scumsuckers better than we would be treated.

Most of them will be in Montreal running Depanneurs when this is all over anyway, having claimed refugee status.

Icebound · Post by **Icebound** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:31 pm

xsbank wrote:

Most of them will be in Montreal running Depanneurs when this is all over anyway, having claimed refugee status.

Not "will be".

This guy Sabet seems like an interesting case. Our government can't find any record of him coming into Canada, yet he and his family have been in Montreal since the 1990's.

http://www.skyreporter.com/blog/page/5/20070409_01/

...

2R · Post by 2R » Tue May 01, 2007 8:38 pm

Death was a brand of Heroin .Maybe thats what they meant when they were shouting "Death to the infidels"

If they poison the children of the west with heroin will they get 72 virgins ???

Does it say who he banks with ???

Springbok 3 · Post by **Springbok 3** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:51 pm

Two very different responses from two soldiers:

First response:

This is the country where the Trudeau progeny are treated as Royalty, where Karla Homolka is a "victim", and where a Communist bastard at the head of one Federal Political Party can have dual French/Canadian citizenship and the Governor General can, too, another Federal Political Party can be made up entirely of seditious swine, and ANOTHER Federal Political Party can be headed by some wannabe Marxist-Leninist asshole who was caught attempting to defraud the Welfare system in Toronto a few years back...enlightened now? So, with all of this in mind, it is ENTIRELY in keeping with the character of our Federal Parliament that, of course, they would cry out against "abuses"commited against Terrorist vermin by the Government of Afghanistan, and accuse our soldiery of being in a conspiracy of evil with that legitimate, struggling Government in its attempts to survive. Just one more example of the same sort of idiocy which spawns OTHER suicide pacts with anarchy in Canada. In this case, the "useful idiots"in Parliament aren't being particularly useful to anyone other than the very Terrorist scum who would gladly put them all to death, and who have, in fact PLANNED just that in the very recent past in Toronto. So, Springbok, it's NOT just you who is perplexed and outraged by all of this. Me, too.

Response # 2:

This is another shot at the dumbass, no mind sheep that the politicians like to refer to as voters or constituents. This has nothing to do with prisoners in Afghanistan and everything to do with politics. The opposition parties all think that they can slide this one by the public as a thinly veiled allegation that OUR troops are abusing prisoners by not regularly checking in on their welfare all in the hopes that they may secure a few more votes in the next federal election by being seen as standing up for the downtrodden! (Watch this come up in the next election!)

Please remember and remind everyone you see, including a quick email to your MP that:

A. These are not prisoners of war as defined by the Geneva convention;

B. Our troops are treating them with all the respect afforded prisoners of
war by those Conventions; and

C. Once these terrorists are correctly handed over to A'stan officials,
they cease to become a Canadian responsibility.

Do not forget that these are terrorists, not soldiers. They do not recognize any laws or statutes. They do not wear a standard uniform. They go to markets and detonate their explosives, killing and maiming innocent civilians including women and children. They torture and kill the people they take as hostages and regularly desecrate the dead afterwards. They interpret the K'oran to make all this seem OK in a religious sense and they do this all in the name of Allah. A large portion of them are foriegn nationals and some are from countries that claim to be friendly to the west.

Now I'll ask you one question. Where is the UN, the Red Cross/Crescent, the human rights commisions, the CBC, CTV, the Liberals, the NDP and the local fuckin' girl scout troop when all that shit is going on?

You said "Scenario 2 is to hand them over to the Afghan authorities and let them handle them in a manner suited to scumbag terrorists".

Scenario 2 is pretty much what is happening at present and I have to say I pretty much agree with the status quo for now. These rights things have been missing there for so long that nobody knows about them anymore. Yes, there are people there that are working on those things as we speak but, Rome wasn't built in a day. It might even happen a lot faster if we could get more people in there but, security would be a problem. A vicious circle, no doubt.

I think I'm about done. I'm writing my MP. You do it too!! OUT

teacher · Post by **teacher** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:46 am

Well the truth is finally coming out. Once again the Liberals are blaming the governing party the DISCISIONS THAT THEY MADE.

First it was Kyoto targets and now this......

Liberals OK'd Afghan detainee deal
Ex-PM Martin gave defence minister approval to negotiate transfer agreement

Andrew Mayeda and Mike Blanchfield
The Ottawa Citizen

Thursday, May 03, 2007

Former prime minister Paul Martin gave approval almost two years ago to then-defence minister Bill Graham to negotiate a detainee transfer agreement with the Afghanistan government, according to government documents obtained by CanWest News Service.

The revelation, contained in cabinet correspondence and Defence Department briefing notes, comes as the Harper government continues to face criticism over its conduct of the Afghanistan mission and allegations that detainees were abused after being transferred to Afghan authorities.

The documents show that Mr. Martin, who has yet to speak publicly on the controversy, was briefed on the outlines of the agreement more than six months before it was signed.

In a May 27, 2005, letter from Mr. Graham to Mr. Martin, the prime minister was told that Canada planned to negotiate an agreement with the Afghan government that spelled out "explicit undertakings" on how the detainees would be treated.

The same day as the letter, Mr. Graham "authorized the Canadian Forces to seek arrangements with relevant authorities on the transfer of detainees," according to a Defence Department briefing note.

"The prime minister concurred with this approach on 10 June, 2005," states the note.

The documents appear to debunk allegations that Chief of Defence Gen. Rick Hillier acted on his own and without proper government supervision when he signed the controversial detainee deal on behalf of the Canadian government in Kabul on Dec. 18, 2005.

They also shed new light on how the former Liberal government crafted a deal that has become one of Prime Minister Stephen Harper's biggest political headaches since taking power, sparking daily calls for the resignation of Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor.

The May 2005 letter states that Canada's new detainee policy "proceeds from the same premise" as strategic objectives approved by former prime minister Jean Chretien in November 2001.

Mr. Chretien was the first prime minister to commit warships and special forces troops to the U.S.-led war on terrorism, one month after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S.

The government planned to reach an agreement with Afghanistan under which detainees transferred by Canada would "be afforded treatment consistent with the standards set out in the Third Geneva Convention, regardless of the legal status of those detainees," the letter states.

The letter, also sent to former foreign affairs minister Pierre Pettigrew, assures that information on detainees "will be passed along in a timely way" to the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), "which has the mandate and resources to track prisoners of war and detainees captured during armed conflict."

The letter does not specify whether the Red Cross will report back to Canada on the condition of the detainees.

Mr. O'Connor recently apologized for misleading Parliament about the role of the Red Cross. He said it was reporting back to Canada, when that was not correct.

On May 31, 2005, Mr. Graham and Gen. Hillier met Afghanistan foreign minister Abdullah Abdullah to discuss the "possibility" of a bilateral "framework agreement," according to the briefing note.

On July 28, Gen. Hillier sent Mr. Graham a letter asking for his approval "to include language in a proposed Military Technical Agreement with the government of Afghanistan concerning the Canadian Forces plans to negotiate a bilateral agreement on the treatment of detainees."

Mr. Graham signed off on the plan.

In the House of Commons yesterday, the Conservative government faced another round of questioning about its handling of the Afghan detainee issue.

The government has faced criticism that it has exposed prisoners to torture in Afghan prisons after they were transferred there by the Canadian military personnel, and that it has offered contradictory explanations about the issue.

Mr. Harper told the Commons yesterday that Gen. Hillier did not act on his own when he signed the agreement.

"It is my clear understanding that any such agreement would have required the approval of the Liberal cabinet ministers of the day."

Unlike similar agreements reached by the Dutch and British governments, the Canadian deal did not contain a guarantee that Canadian officials could follow up on transferred detainees.

The government has since negotiated a new agreement with Afghan authorities, under which Canadian officials will have access to detainees after they are transferred.

http://www.canada.com/components/print. ... a52f8e3570

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:07 am

The name, "Liberal Party of Canda", and the word "honest" can not be used in the same sentence unless "honest" also has attached the prefix "dis."

Don't forget the bald headed NDP idiot also suggested that taliban prisoners be brought to Canada for safe keeping, where of course they would promptly file refugee claims.

You can bet your ass those lying scum bag liberals will use this taliban mistreatment at the hands of their own countrymen issue to push their "scary, nasty guy" portrayal of Harper that they have been dishonestly working on for years. The fact the prisoner transfer agreement is theirs won't get in the way of a good politically inspired misinformation campaign.

As usual, the Liberals contempt and distain for the military knows no limits below which they will not crawl.

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Thu May 03, 2007 9:27 am

If you are a liberal, you make me sick, your party makes me sick, your leader makes me sick!!

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Thu May 03, 2007 12:56 pm

Floats wrote:If you are a liberal, you make me sick, your party makes me sick, your leader makes me sick!!

floats you need to see a doc buddy..

I didn't know some people are allergic to the liberals ...

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Thu May 03, 2007 2:58 pm

haha, that actually made me laugh!

Dash-Ate · Post by **Dash-Ate** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:08 pm

We are ok with torturing guys with brown skin, so why not torture white people here at home? The police would have a 99% confession rate. The other 1% would die but of well, ya gotta break a few eggs to make an ommlett.

But after enough torture I will confess to ANYTHING! I will even supply you with name of ANYONE to make it stop.

Here's an idea chaps: the next time you are tortured be sure to hand over Sprinbok's name. They will pick him up give him the same royal treatment

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:26 pm

We are ok with torturing guys with brown skin, so why not torture white people here at home? The police would have a 99% confession rate. The other 1% would die but of well, ya gotta break a few eggs to make an ommlett

For F&)K sakes!!!!! WE ARE NOT TORTURING ANYONE, nor condoning it.
SO STOP MAKING SHIT UP!

The prisoner transfer agreement is a NATO agreement,

taxiway_matthew · Post by **taxiway_matthew** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:21 pm

I see Dash8 is up to his usual BS of making false claims

Liberal "Save the Taliban" Campaign

Liberal "Save the Taliban" Campaign

Re: Liberal "Save the Taliban" Campaign