• The instrument rating !!!

Posted: **Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:52 pm**

Ok I need some serious help decoding the CARs regarding the instrument rating ..

b) Experience

An applicant shall have completed a minimum of:

(i) 50 hours of cross-country flight as pilot-in-command in aeroplanes or helicopters of which 10 hours must be in the appropriate category; and

(ii) 40 hours of instrument time of which a maximum of 20 hours may be instrument ground time. The 40 hours instrument time shall include a minimum of:

(A) 5 hours of dual instrument flight time acquired from the holder of a flight instructor rating ,

(B) 5 hours in aeroplanes where the applicant is applying for a Group 1, 2 or 3 instrument rating or in helicopters where the applicant is applying for a Group 4 instrument rating,

(C) Fifteen (15) hours of dual instrument flight time provided by a qualified person as specified in section 425.21(9); and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(D) one dual cross-country flight under simulated or actual IMC conditions of a minimum of 100 nautical miles, the flight to be conducted in accordance with an IFR flight plan to include at, two different locations, an instrument approach to minima.

Does this include the instrument time received during the PPL and CPL training ???

Posted: **Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:50 pm**

Yes it does; since it's not specifically excluded, the time counts.

Posted: **Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:00 pm**

shitdisturber wrote:Yes it does.

Thank you,so assuming I have the multi-engine rating all I will need for the Group 1 instrument rating is
20 hours in a simulator and 5 instrument hours in a multi-engined airplane with a holder of instrument rating (Does it include the x-country flight ??!)??

I know I have too many questions, but just trying to budget for the Multi-IFR.

Cheers
Adam

Posted: **Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:44 pm**

20 hours in a simulator

- yes up to 20 hours

and 5 instrument hours in a multi-engined airplane with a holder of instrument rating

- no. 5 instrument with a flight instructor. you don't need to have any training in multi, even though it is recommended. you only need to do the flight test in multi.

(Does it include the x-country flight ??!)??

-yes

Posted: **Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:36 pm**

WRX wrote:
20 hours in a simulator

- yes up to 20 hours

and 5 instrument hours in a multi-engined airplane with a holder of instrument rating

- no. 5 instrument with a flight instructor. you don't need to have any training in multi, even though it is recommended. you only need to do the flight test in multi.

(Does it include the x-country flight ??!)??
-yes

Thank you very much guys

Posted: **Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:27 pm**

Seems to me the five hours does not have to be with a flight instructor, just somebody with an instrument rating. I've given plenty of training and I was never a 'flight instructor.' Also, for an initial, you might need more than 5, and IMHO, you should do it in the 'plane you are planning to do the ride in.

Posted: **Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:57 pm**

xsbank wrote:Seems to me the five hours does not have to be with a flight instructor, just somebody with an instrument rating. I've given plenty of training and I was never a 'flight instructor.' Also, for an initial, you might need more than 5, and IMHO, you should do it in the 'plane you are planning to do the ride in.

That is exactly what I was thinking xsbank; Thank you

Posted: **Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:11 pm**

Your total instruement time(40 hours) counts from private. and you have to have 5 hours from flight instructor(part of private license training).

Since, everyone does training with flight instructor for their private, eveyone will have 5 hours with instructor. (part of private license requirement)

Posted: **Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:24 pm**

You also have to confirm that your class 4,3,2,1 who trained you for your instrument training had an instrument rating otherwise you will need at least 15 hour of training with an instrument instructor a little different than just a flying instructor. Most instructors have instrument ratings but if they don't you'll have to find someone who does.

Posted: **Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:04 pm**

Now that I think of it, all my instrument rating stuff has mostly been recurrent or type ratings - I'm sure I've trained few type ratings that also did their ATPL rides, but I can't confirm for sure if I've ever trained for an ab initio instrument rating so I may be full of, well, you know.

If I've screwed you up Adam, I apologise.

Posted: **Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:11 pm**

Wasn't Me wrote:You also have to confirm that your class 4,3,2,1 who trained you for your instrument training had an instrument rating otherwise you will need at least 15 hour of training with an instrument instructor a little different than just a flying instructor. Most instructors have instrument ratings but if they don't you'll have to find someone who does.

Actually, no it does not say that. It simply says that 5 hours of instrument training must come from a flight instructor. There is no stipulation that this instructor must have an IFR rating.

Posted: **Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:28 am**

I have a question too regarding instructor rating. It says that Class 4 instructors are only allowed to instruct under supervision. Does that mean a Class 1 instructor sits behind and watch you instruct? And if it's ground school, you need a Class 1 instructor to be in the classroom for you to teach?

Posted: **Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:11 am**

dt1019 wrote:I have a question too regarding instructor rating. It says that Class 4 instructors are only allowed to instruct under supervision. Does that mean a Class 1 instructor sits behind and watch you instruct? And if it's ground school, you need a Class 1 instructor to be in the classroom for you to teach?

What it means is that a Class 4 has to have a Class 1 or 2 aware of and involved in their daily flying; usually that just means a discussion at the beginning of the day of what the 4 is planning to do with each student. As well, a 1 or 2 is required to fly with a 4's students prior to first solo and and flight testing. I usually just did a pre solo check with the student when the 4 thought they were ready, and did the pre flight check.

As for ground school; any instructor has to be approved by the CFI in order to teach ground school. Usually I just sat at the back of their first class until I was sure they were comfortable and knew what they were doing then I took a powder. If you stay at the back too long you increase the pressure on both the instructor and the students; nobody likes having someone look over their shoulders constantly after all.

Posted: **Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:31 am**

ohh i see. Thanks for the reply!

Posted: **Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:41 pm**

One more note on ground school. This does not have to be taught by someone with an Instructor Rating. Anyone that the CFI deems competant to do this is okay.