Air CHina pilots having problem seaking english @ JFK

THEICEMAN · Post by **THEICEMAN** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:29 pm

This can be dangerous....but unny @ the same time

check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU

sprucemonkey · Post by **sprucemonkey** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:52 pm

OUCH!!!! Is my anglish that mis-understood overseas??

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:49 am

thank god it wasen't a french incedent

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:05 am

I remember hearing the same kind of exchange in northern domestic airspace years ago with a Vietnamese airline. Couldn't read back a basic enroute clearance.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:56 am

That's how my transmissions always go. What's the problem?

-istp

AV8OR · Post by **AV8OR** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:29 pm

...real friendly ATC at JFK.

W0X0F · Post by **W0X0F** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:57 pm

Yes, communications is their downfall.

September 11, I was at Boundary Bay. It's east of yvr omni, under one of the arrivals. Air China 747 under escort. I can imagine the conversation going somewhat like this:

Oakland Oceanic: Air China 123, you are now recleared to Vancouver via...

Air China 123: Ah Oak'and we go to Los Angeles.

O O: No, US airspace is closed. You are now cleared to Vancouver...

AC 123: We go to LA.

O O: No, you're going to Vancouver or else.

"Or else" showed up in the form of a pair of F15s.

privateer · Post by **privateer** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:00 pm

You want a great example of the communication barrier just listen to Boundary Bay tower.

Masta-Fred · Post by **Masta-Fred** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:15 pm

hat off to boundary bay tower controllers... anyday anytime!

juggling between 4 152s and 2 172s doing touch and goes, 3 multis wanting to land, 5 planes waiting for a clearance to take off . 3 more planes doing orbits just to enter the damn class C and 80% of the pilots-in-training are english second language... !

Those guys are real controllers!

Dave T · Post by **Dave T** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:46 pm

That was painful. English is the agreed language of aviation and you should be able to communicate better than that in a place like JFK. The controller wasn't being a jerk and gave them a couple chances before he started to lose his cool.

Jim N · Post by **Jim N** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:52 am

Masta-Fred wrote:hat off to boundary bay tower controllers... anyday anytime!

juggling between 4 152s and 2 172s doing touch and goes, 3 multis wanting to land, 5 planes waiting for a clearance to take off . 3 more planes doing orbits just to enter the damn class C and 80% of the pilots-in-training are english second language... !

Those guys are real controllers!

Too true!

It was amazing to hear Barney sort out problems back when he was there. He might not have been the nicest to the pilots, but he sure could get the job done. For that he will always have my respect. The man who is no longer there that gets the award for best controller is Rick though. I don't know how he could deal with all that and never sound pissed off. Talk about infinate patience. ZBB's loss is YVR's gain as far as that man is concerned.

Thanks for the link. Anything JFK involving Arnie is bound to be funny...

backon3 · Post by **backon3** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:53 am

Just yesterday....

ATC: Air China heading 250 for spacing.

AC: Direct spacing??

ATC: HEADING 2-5-0.. for spacing.

AC: We are direct XXXXX, could you spell spacing?

ATC: Steer your airplane 250 degrees for now.

AC: Okay we head 250 degrees, Air China.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:48 pm

Four1oh wrote:I remember hearing the same kind of exchange in northern domestic airspace years ago with a Vietnamese airline. Couldn't read back a basic enroute clearance.

Welcome to my life.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:49 pm

Masta-Fred wrote:hat off to boundary bay tower controllers... anyday anytime!

juggling between 4 152s and 2 172s doing touch and goes, 3 multis wanting to land, 5 planes waiting for a clearance to take off . 3 more planes doing orbits just to enter the damn class C and 80% of the pilots-in-training are english second language... !

Those guys are real controllers!

No offense to those guys, but sounds like a slow day in Moncton.

Try 8 planes in the circut, an IFR aircraft shooting approaches, only one runway in use for the light aircraft,2 IFR arrivals inbound, not to mention multiple aircraft taxiing and waiting for take-off.

English, for those guys in my experience is more of a third language.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:30 pm

Apparently they have their own discreet frequency for going into O'Hare due to the language barrier.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:35 pm

I was eastbound one evening Edmoton to Winnipeg in a 'Ho when an Aeroflot freighter was inbound to Saskatoon to pick up horse meat. Their English was so bad, I was held west of the airport tll they landed.

WRX · Post by **WRX** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:18 pm

Yeah, and I think asian contries are getting desperate with english speaking pilots as the deadline for english proficiency rating comes close.
I even got a job offer at korean.(I was born in korea)

niss · Post by **niss** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:37 am

Air China You've seen us drive now watch us fly.

tesox2 · Post by **tesox2** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:22 pm

No offense to those guys, but sounds like a slow day in Moncton.

Try 8 planes in the circut, an IFR aircraft shooting approaches, only one runway in use for the light aircraft,2 IFR arrivals inbound, not to mention multiple aircraft taxiing and waiting for take-off.

English, for those guys in my experience is more of a third language.

I suggest you check the TC movement data...http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/en/Report/TP141e/tp141.htm

Moncton has half the total movements of Boundary Bay...

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:14 pm

tesox2 wrote:
No offense to those guys, but sounds like a slow day in Moncton.

Try 8 planes in the circut, an IFR aircraft shooting approaches, only one runway in use for the light aircraft,2 IFR arrivals inbound, not to mention multiple aircraft taxiing and waiting for take-off.

English, for those guys in my experience is more of a third language.
I suggest you check the TC movement data...http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/en/Report/TP141e/tp141.htm

Moncton has half the total movements of Boundary Bay...

Well I'll be... Kinda surprised of who's in the top 10, who's not, and in what order. Interesting link.

tesox2 · Post by **tesox2** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:23 pm

It is a very interesting link indeed! I should have provided the one for the annual reports as opposed to the monthly reports....here it is.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/en/report/TP577/tp577.htm

Moncton movements 2006 = 77,301
Boundary Bay 2006 = 185,770

ZBB was 5th overall for total movements in Canada...Moncton was 23rd...ZBB is insane, I have great respect for the controllers there, they had tremendous patience while I trained there!

imarai · Post by **imarai** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:02 pm

N__ "Edmonton Centre, NovemberXXXX requesting lower"

YEG ACC "NovemberXXXX, you are cleared to the Lethbridge Airport
for an approach"

N__ "Roger, NovemberXXXX"

(45 seconds later)

N__ "Ah, Edmonton, NovemberXXXX, I've looked through my Jepps, and I can't find a 'Foreign Approach' or a 'Four-Wood Approach' over"

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:58 pm

Uh ya, what imariai said. Some "N" type peelots can be really fun to listen too. I swear "americanese" simply has to be recognized as a unique dialect by the UN. Might even come a day when they do ICAO testing on the yanks!

For that matter, lets not slag on just the Asian carriers either. Some of our "own" have a 'ard time wit de henglish anglash too ya know!

Taber something...

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:28 pm

Damn...

Beat me to it! Try 10+ Air India/ Air China 981's...Eg.. CZBB or Glen Valley...or anywhere in the Lower Mainland for that matter..

The best is when the guys try and get into VR Class C:

VR TML: " GABC, Cleared en-route,REMAIN CLEAR OF MY CLASS C AT ALL TIMES"

Student: Okay...I climb into terminal Class C now right through your overshoot pattern! THANKS!

Personally, I don't think its a laughing matter..I've seen this issue (lack of english skills) create some dangerous situations!

frontside_air · Post by **frontside_air** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:15 am

here's a good example of how one professional decision by the USair crew not to take off (until twr had the lost a/c sorted out) probably saved a couple hundred lives
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BvgSS6kBdU

a better recreation with the full atc convo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cofPH1y9vuw