Flow into YWG

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:05 am

To follow up on the atc shortages in YWG as I am guessing this has everything to do with it as well.

Lately I have noticed that there is in the atis, flow into ywg terminal. haha ok

But yesterday at 6:00am we were delayed takeoff for FLOW and it wasn't into our destination as a calm air got delayed for this as well. And I know they don't have flow into thomson.

So what gives guys, sorry but I've flown into ywg for years and have never had this so is it just a trial thing or what.

Pith Helmet · Post by **Pith Helmet** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:24 am

We got flowed going in there this morning...Had to go direct Govit for the STAR when coming from the soutwest. When switched over to Arrival, there was one guy doing Arrivals and Departures so it I infer that it is staffing issues. Not that I think I know anything about being a contoller, but I would certainly not be envious of that guy if it got busy.

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:02 pm

pretty sure it staff vacationage. just bring some extra fuel.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:16 pm

It 's not "vacationage". We are short staffed.

As I said elsewhere, tofo you are more than welcome to come down to 777 Moray for a tour.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:00 pm

Jerricho wrote:It 's not "vacationage". We are short staffed.

As I said elsewhere, tofo you are more than welcome to come down to 777 Moray for a tour.

So that being said, this so called flow is only temporary than, until more people are hired.

If the case is just short handed, why would they let others transfer out if it would cut into operations or have you always ran short staffed.

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:18 pm

maybe tommorow.

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:50 pm

flyinhigh wrote: So that being said, this so called flow is only temporary than, until more people are hired.

If the case is just short handed, why would they let others transfer out if it would cut into operations or have you always ran short staffed.

There are other reasons for losing staff than transfers & vacation... retirements, disability, mat leave, controllers to run training to eventually increase staffing, etc.

I'm not saying this is what's going on (I don't know), only that terminal being short staffed isn't necessarily due to management approving leave or transfers that they shouldn't.

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:51 pm

Tofo try here:

http://alt.liveatc.net/cywg

Or go down and see what Jericho is talking about - today!

Do some research before opening your cake hole. "Vacationage"......., you're right, caught em! - that's the way it works. Man you are SO smrt...s m r t.....

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:51 pm

call me a skeptic but 30 degrees rolls around.

were a short drive from lake of the woods.

and flow control goes into effect.

the controllers that are there are doing a great job with there resources, however their company doesn't lose money every time they issues 5 min seperation for each departing aircraft, among other issues in there air space. This could become frustrating.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:24 am

This may come as a surprise, but a controllers last worry is about saving an airline company money.

I'm not saying controllers don't care about it.

But it is priority last.

What pilots seem to forget is that loosing separation not only affects flight safety primarily, it's a controllers job, his life, his family.

If a controller has to make you wait 5 minutes so he can be sure to keep his livelyhood because he's understaffed, BFD! You're not paying the gas bill I doubt anyway.

Everybody does their best to get you through as quick as safely possible.

Safe, Orderly, Efficent.

It's how it's done in ATC in that order, and it's how everyone should be flying their airplane, in that order.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:49 am

................

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:39 pm

Wrong area

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:38 pm

I honestly don't know what's going on with the staffing situation.

However, the service that I have recived from the controllers has been top notch with that bad of a staffing shortage.

I will take you up on that tour soon jericho (prefferably without you in a dress and or giving me a hug).

As far as the gas is concerned (who pays for it). I'm responsible for that flight.

what was the moto.

Safe, Orderly, Efficent.

. That's my responsibility as well as OTP.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:37 pm

But I just shaved my legs....... I'm 6' 1" That takes time y'all.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:01 am

Jerricho wrote:But I just shaved my legs....... I'm 6' 1" That takes time y'all.

I get tired shaving my face in the morning.

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:54 am

you working sunday.

I'm very intresded in the tour.

who know's maybe I can give some insite into they way I see it, You can give some insite into the way you see it

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:15 am

I find myself coming back to the idea that regular tours by pilots to centres and towers should be a requirement.

thatdaveguy · Post by **thatdaveguy** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:12 am

someone in centre, please be blunt and admit why you're always short staffed.

i know why, but i'm not going to mudsling.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:22 am

I know where you're going with that, and I don't work in YWG, but I can tell you from people I've met who are controllers in WG, and ended up training with here actually have told me that's not an issue in YWG anymore.

I'll let someone from YWG currently comment further.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:54 am

.............

thatdaveguy · Post by **thatdaveguy** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:01 am

Jerricho wrote:
tofo wrote:you working sunday.

I'm very intresded in the tour.
Check your private messages.

thatdaveguy, I'm guessing your comment of "I know why" has to do with the tired old bullshit of controllers not checking anyone out to protect overtime. Hmmm...........

Well it's possibly not the case in WG, but it is at a particular centre... (left unsaid)

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:18 pm

thatdaveguy wrote:
Jerricho wrote:
tofo wrote:you working sunday.

I'm very intresded in the tour.
Check your private messages.

thatdaveguy, I'm guessing your comment of "I know why" has to do with the tired old bullshit of controllers not checking anyone out to protect overtime. Hmmm...........
Well it's possibly not the case in WG, but it is at a particular centre... (left unsaid)

Just curious, are you basing your information from personal experience, or what? We all know what centre you're talking about, but wondering where the info is you get.

thatdaveguy · Post by **thatdaveguy** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:58 pm

So if you know what I'm talking about, why do you think it's untrue? The success rates are extremely low across board, almost non-existent for some sectors.

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:18 pm

so it's not a staff vacationage, it's a staff overtimeage?

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:43 pm

By law (CLC), controllers can only work so many hours averaged over a given period - I do beleive its every 56 days - correct me if I'm wrong.

At any rate, if there are flow measures in place that means there are not enough controllers - even if they work the maximum overtime - to staff any given unit. I doubt they run short (or are allowed to run short) just for shits and giggles. Plus for Canadian controllers overtime is not voluntary, its mandatory.

Therefore, if there isn't enough controllers to work, including maximum overtime for each controller, how in the hell can anyone come to the conclusion they are "protecting overtime"????? There is more overtime available/required than they can legally work????

IMHO that whole "protecting overtime" argument is the excuse of those who didn't make it - easier to paint others as the villian than to come to grips with personal failure for some I guess. These anonymous BB's are notorious for breeding and perpetuating that myth cause nobody can deal in specifics - for liabilty reasons. Given ATC's dismal success rate of around 30%, there are far more unsucessful people than sucessful - and successful people don't complain much.

If you want to discuss it further, post your real name and unit. I'm sure some other anonymous poster will clarify the specifics of why you didn't make it.

Flow into YWG

Flow into YWG

Amalgamation