its 4am in toronto and im just at the outer ring of the TCA at 6500'
im coming into burlington (czba)
its VFR flight from montreal


when i took off from montreal, i was cleared to climb to flight planned altitude immediately to 6500 feet. there was other traffic in the zone at the time. and now coming into toronto airsapce, with no traffic at 4am, im being told to stay below the TCA all the way to burlington. if i can be in the TCA in montreal or ottawa, why cant i be in the TCA in toronto when VFR?? I was going to request to stay at 6500 until arriving in burlington, but i was not sure if it was a great idea.. anyways, why do i have to descend below the TCA when the sky is empty?

p.s. this is not a complaint, but i just want some knowledge

I don't work in YYZ, but I'd be willing to be it's likely something to do with standing ops orders.

It's either the TRSA guy not asking the departure guy if it's possible( and it is at that time of day), or the departure guy being a schmuck and saying no even though there's nothing going on.

Regards,

Mel

with you outside his airspace he doesn't have to watch you and is not responsible. Therefor at 4am he can go back to sleep with his feet up on the console.

Were you asked to remain clear of Class C airspace?
or
Were you told to follow the shoreline an descend to 2500' around YTZ?

Do you have a funtioning transponder with Mode C capabilities?

These questions do have a bearing even at 4am (yes there is traffic in and around YYZ at 4am). If you clear these up, perhaps there maybe an answer out there for you.

RufusXavierSasparrilla wrote:Were you asked to remain clear of Class C airspace?
or
Were you told to follow the shoreline an descend to 2500' around YTZ?

Do you have a funtioning transponder with Mode C capabilities?

These questions do have a bearing even at 4am (yes there is traffic in and around YYZ at 4am). If you clear these up, perhaps there maybe an answer out there for you.

i was not told to remain clear of class c, but i assume that was happening anyways since i was told to descend..

i didnt follow shoreline, my route was simcoe VOR-> czba

i did have mode c x-pndr

Since you were not told to remain clear of class c airspace but told to descend while still going direct to CZBA, I am going to assume that there was traffic at that time. As I said before, even at 4am there are still arrivals and departures at YYZ and because ZBA is so close, the need for descent is required (usually due to Radar Wake Turbulence separation). FYI...During regular hours, VFR aircraft going to ZBA from the east are instructed to fly the shoreline (with a descent to 2500ft by YTZ) almost to Oakville and then turn for ZBA.

Rubbish!

I am new to this forum...but not new to the Aviation blog community...usually frequent PPRUNE.

I work Terminal now in Toronto...having transferred over from the UK just a couple of years ago. I am sure afew people on here will know me...or know who I am from my username.

Interested by this thread as I have just come off a cycle of night shifts..and I know the guys who worked the cycle just before that...and I find it highly highly unlikely that the departure controller was a "schmuck" and said "no" for no reason. I don't know a single terminal controller who refuses a flight without reason (as it rebounds on us at times).

If it was quiet there would be no reason whatsover to refuse the flight. Jeez if we can't be bothered and there is nothing going on..all we do is yell over to the airports controller......"you can keep him" and then we can go back to doing whatever takes our fancy. The airports guy will then watch the flight through our airspace.

What type aircraft were you in? Something slow?... a type that will take an eternity to descend...or will remain in arrival/departure airspace for an eternity. If you were routing over the YSO VOR and then ZBA...do you know what runway config YYZ was in?

What may have been happening at 4am?....Departures off KZ...North/Northeast bound...looking to climb...can't because VFR in the way.

Inbounds into HM.Various cargo jets and Flight crafts and the like...they may be slow descending....find themselves blocked by VFR into ZBA

Departures off HM...eastbound...have to level off at 5000 feet for afew miles as a slow moving VFR is in the way

Morningstar Cargo departures YYZ...off 33R...flight planned to MX...climbs to 5000 feet...wants to go on course....VFR in the way at 6500.

Morningstar cargo inbound (late)...landing on 23 due wind....slow descending to keep within noise footprint.....wants the 5000 ft point on the glide slope for noise....turns into the down wind high.slow moving VFR in the way at 6500.

Unfortunately the being VFR is what might have rebounded on you. If you were going to conflict with any other aircraft in the sky that has a higher priority than you (especially a YYZ dep or arrival) then you will be put in airspace that is separated from that traffic.

Quiet though it is and can be at 4AM....your flight rules and where you were in the sky meant that anything that is happening that you will get in the way of will have you bumped down the priority list. Even that early in the morning!

If it happens again....no harm in asking what the confliction is.

Married a Canadian wrote:
If it happens again....no harm in asking what the confliction is.

I was going to but i decided to leave it for next time, i was also tired after a long trip.

I cant remember which runway was active that night at YYZ, but i do remember there was a georgian plane somewhere in the air talking to the same controller i was talking to.

anyways, do you know when it will be possible to do a low and over on runway 33R/15L ?? The pilots i know told me they get to do it all the time, but whenever i request it, the request gets denied due to noise abatement.. YYZ atc does offer me to fly over the field at 3300 feet. i cant remeber the exact altitude. I over flew pearson once but if possible, i would like to do a low and over on 33R/15L when able.. whats the best time in your opinion to do a low and over?

photo shot?