Babies On a Plane

[200hr Wonder]

So I was reading the threads about the WestJet incident where it hit some turbulence and a few pax got injured as well as the degenerated thread about breastfeeding on planes and it got me to thinking...

Up until 2 years of age a pax can sit on the parents lap, does anyone see this as horrendously unsafe? In the WestJet example I would be very very interested in knowing if there where any pax sitting on a parents lap? How easy would it be for a child to be ripped from the parents arms and slammed into a bulkhead or ceiling? I mean chances are the parents is not going to have a death grip on the child the whole time.

The other serious issues I would have is if Mom or Dad is holding on to a 20lbs. child, and there was god forbid a crash, the G forces could easily hit 10 if just not for a split second, thus turning the child into a 200 projectile trying to go forward while Mom or Dad is strapped in and not going anywhere. With the portable car seats these days, why on earth are we allowing kids on a plane to sit in mom or dads lap? Why is a car seat and a real seat not mandatory? Seems quite absurd to me. I am not a father yet, but I would think that the price of an extra ticket would be well worth my peace of mind to have my child sit in a proper seat with restraints.

Which leads me to my next question, would cabin crew allow a parent to bring a child seat into the cabin to be strapped to a seat so that the child could then be strapped into the seat? I have personally never seen it my self.

[Doc]

When my kids were little, I used to pack them in a padded box, and send them through as baggage.

[5400AirportRdSouth]

Dad, is that you?




In all seriousness, I tend to agee with the OP. I know its nice to get the free ticket, but the logistics of having a child in your lap for 5 hours seems like it would be a tough one, safety issues aside.

There was a day when car-seats weren't mandatory either and I think we all agree that change was for the better....

5400

[CP]

The other serious issues I would have is if Mom or Dad is holding on to a 20lbs. child, and there was god forbid a crash, the G forces could easily hit 10 if just not for a split second, thus turning the child into a 200 projectile

The child would not gain 180 pounds in a crash. He would still be 20 pounds therefore a 20 pound projectile.

[Widow]

Transport Canada recommends using an approved car seat when travelling with babies.

All parents are encouraged to use an approved child restraint system (car seat) when travelling by air with their infants or children. The use of an approved car seat provides the greatest protection for the child in the event that the aircraft encounters turbulence.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/comm ... /tips5.htm

As for myself and my three children, I have always paid for the extra seat and always used a carseat when I travelled with a child under two years.

Are there still airlines out there that have a bassinett that can attach to the bulkhead?

[Vickers vanguard]

Are there still airlines out there that have a bassinett that can attach to the bulkhead?

There are indeed! My wife and two kids went to Germany this summer and Lufthansa had the bassinett in 4 locations on the A/C ( A340-500 or 600)

I too had the same question regarding the car seat option.

[Chickaddd]

\

I too, flew to Germany this summer but on AirTrashCan and experienced the bassinett right in front of me. I did not know they existed and was not advised the bulkhead was used to accomodate the little ones. Scary if turbulence had been an issue.

[co-joe]

Oh good...I thought "babies on a plane" was a new Samuel L Jackson movie...

[w squared]

Oh good...I thought "babies on a plane" was a new Samuel L Jackson movie...

No, it's actually the cinematic portion of the Britney Spears comeback attempt. She takes a trans-continental flight with her kids. She feeds them Pepsi in baby bottle and smokes in front of them in the lavatory.

[WING IT]

I would rather have my child sitting on my lap, so in the event of an emergency exit of the aircraft, I can get out with my child in a timely fashion and not waste time trying to get them out of their seat.

[Rockie]

So I was reading the threads about the WestJet incident where it hit some turbulence and a few pax got injured as well as the degenerated thread about breastfeeding on planes and it got me to thinking...

Up until 2 years of age a pax can sit on the parents lap, does anyone see this as horrendously unsafe? In the WestJet example I would be very very interested in knowing if there where any pax sitting on a parents lap? How easy would it be for a child to be ripped from the parents arms and slammed into a bulkhead or ceiling? I mean chances are the parents is not going to have a death grip on the child the whole time.

The other serious issues I would have is if Mom or Dad is holding on to a 20lbs. child, and there was god forbid a crash, the G forces could easily hit 10 if just not for a split second, thus turning the child into a 200 projectile trying to go forward while Mom or Dad is strapped in and not going anywhere. With the portable car seats these days, why on earth are we allowing kids on a plane to sit in mom or dads lap? Why is a car seat and a real seat not mandatory? Seems quite absurd to me. I am not a father yet, but I would think that the price of an extra ticket would be well worth my peace of mind to have my child sit in a proper seat with restraints.

Which leads me to my next question, would cabin crew allow a parent to bring a child seat into the cabin to be strapped to a seat so that the child could then be strapped into the seat? I have personally never seen it my self.

You're absolutely right and it has been an issue forever. Parents can use a car seat but they have to buy another airline ticket in order to use it, which some parents aren't willing to do, and it must be approved by Transport Canada. Of course different departments in Transport Canada don't talk to one another so a car seat approved for use in an automobile isn't necessarily approved on an airplane, and that cause all kinds of confusion to a parent who just wants to go somewhere with their kids.

Different countries also have different regulations. For instance there is a seatbelt loop that is approved for use in the UK to secure babies to their parents lap that is not approved for use in Canada. And the list of approved car seats isn't the same either.

There are lots of contradictions in aviation and this is one of the biggest in my opinion. We have to stow our four pound laptop in the overhead or under the seat, but they don't see anything wrong with a twenty pound missile flying through the cabin.

[kilocharliemike]

My wife travels often with the kids, one 4yrs old and a 5mth old. She keeps the baby secured to her in a snuggly/baby bjorn type thing. I always wanted her to take the extra seat but when I saw her little routine I was sold. Baby in the snuggly and hands free to tend to the 4 year old, and every one is strapped in so to speak. She has it down to a science. Not to mention the baby loves it and never cries in flight which Im sure everyone around her appreciates.

[stopsquawk]

Dad, is that you?

I howled.

Thanks for that one:)

[MrWings]

This becomes mandatory when a child dies.

Very sad but true.

[Longtimer]

This becomes mandatory when a child dies.

Very sad but true.

I wonder how many babies fly that way a year and how many that would add up to since commercial aviation started. No reports of any deaths caused by this practise, Amazing Safety Record eh!

The current trend to legislate the world into safety is getting out of hand!

http://www.seniormag.com/whitt/survival.htm

[flyinphil]

There have actually been quite a few infants survive crashes while held in the mothers or fathers arm. Oddly enough, some of the parents were killed by the same impact. Not saying it is right, but not being in a restraint system doesn't mean certain death.

[stopsquawk]

Does anyone know of any studies that have been done? I'm sure there are statistics of non-restrained children surviving air accidents.

from WikiHow:

"Never hold your infant or toddler on your lap. While it may be cheaper than buying a seat, your child is almost guaranteed not to survive if you are holding him or her. Get a seat for your child and use an approved child restraint system."

http://www.wikihow.com/Survive-a-Plane-Crash

it's from Wikipedia, so it must be right.

[flyinphil]

There are some but read the info from the link.

The FAA is concerned that incresed cost to the travellers would put more infants at risk on the roadways.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422 ... -16783.htm

[Expat]

You cannot compare a car crash to turbulences. There is not an airliner that can survive 10 vertical Gs. As far as horizontal ones, you get this when you hit a mountain. So in my opinion, a mother's arms are enough to take care of a 0 G followed by a 2 G situation.

[flyinphil]

You cannot compare a car crash to turbulences. There is not an airliner that can survive 10 vertical Gs. As far as horizontal ones, you get this when you hit a mountain. So in my opinion, a mother's arms are enough to take care of a 0 G followed by a 2 G situation.

I didn't write the article. That was the FAA. They came to their own conclusions.

[saucer_driver]

There was a baby crying on the flight back from toronto the other day.....So i let out a, "I am tired of these motherfu*kin' babies on motherfu*kin planes"

[Freetime]

My wife travels often with the kids, one 4yrs old and a 5mth old. She keeps the baby secured to her in a snuggly/baby bjorn type thing. I always wanted her to take the extra seat but when I saw her little routine I was sold. Baby in the snuggly and hands free to tend to the 4 year old, and every one is strapped in so to speak. She has it down to a science. Not to mention the baby loves it and never cries in flight which Im sure everyone around her appreciates.

My wife and I tried this once and were forced to take the baby out of the snuggly for takeoff and landing - seemed totally backwards to me, but the flight attendant would not relent. Not only did it seem safer in the snuggly to me, the baby woke early from a nap by being taken out...

[Panama Jack]

The problem is once you mandate that infants have to buy their own seats, it causes a strong reaction from travelling parents, and for good reason. The cost of travel has just gone up substantially (they always had the option to buy, but now you've forced the issue) and they may not be able to afford this extra burden.

So instead of taking WestJet, the economics justify taking the Toyota instead. And most up us understand the risk of death or bodily injury while driving in a car is much higher than when flying in an airplane.

[RatherBeFlying]

Since infant car seats have been developed, TC has gone through several variations of regulations covering infant car seats on airplanes.

And then every airline has its own operating manual.

So when making the reservation, it's time to say that you will be bringing along a car seat(s) for the kid(s) that will be needing it and that you want this remark put on your reservation.

In the case of a survivable crash, I suspect it's easier to grab your kid out of a car seat than go looking for him or her if said kid flew out of your grip.

[Alex YCV]

A friend of mine recently (last week) flew from YUL to YYZ to Shanghai with a 4 month old baby. I haven't heard from here about the overall experience yet, but here's one thing we found out early in the game:

It appears if you ride along a child on a parent's lap, you pay a pretty low "supplemental" fee for the child. However, if you want to bring a child seat / car seat with you on board that qould require an additional seat, you would have to pay a full (but reduced) child fare for that extra seat. In the case of the trip to china, the difference was (depending on the agent booking) anywhere from $800 to $1200).

It is understandable that the airline needs to charge in consequence of the lost seat, but the price, especially on these longer haul flights encourages parents to potentially put the children at higher risk by not buying that extra seat.

When I hear what happened on the Westjet flight, I can see where this can be very dangerous indeed.