Borek Sucks!

johnholmes · Post by **johnholmes** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:25 am

I would just like to ask why so many people think Borek is the shit? I personally think it's the shit's. I would like to know what is so glamorous about going to the Maldives and being treated worse than a Maldivian and living on a 5sq km Island with 80,000 locals and making a whopping $1700 a month (even less now with the dollar strength.) is so great. Not to mention your 12,000 miles from home. What is so great about going to yev or yfb for 3 weeks at a time working your bag off and getting a whopping $14/day to feed yourself when a quart of milk is $14. I am not here to say it is the worst company on the earth but I do find it hard to believe that they can treat people the way they do with the industry the way it is these days. The pay definately ranks among the lowest in Canada for F/O's. I guess I would just like to say that i met alot of people that were gung ho to go to Borek only to find out it wasn't what they expected and they end up looking for a new job within 6 months of being there. I can honestly say that other than the oppurtunity to see some different places, Borek was personally by far the worst decision in my flying career so far. So think twice, talk to some former employees and do some research on them before firing off that resume.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:50 am

oh my. oh. my. you are in for a friggin shocker if you think borek is bad. Go back to school and get a real job.

float ball · Post by **float ball** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:08 am

Umm, did you actually work at Borek? Have you flown for any other companies in Canada to form a viable comparison? It's true, Borek is not for everybody but it's sure a better place to work you are carrying on about. In response to your "who wants to work there" question I would gladly point to numerous people who stuck it out as an FO for three or four years then jumped in to the left seat with a decent schedule and a nice pay check. I'm sure most of the former Borek guys now at Westjet, AC, Jazz, and numerous other operators do not regret there time there. What about seeing different parts fo the world? Getting a thousand hours a year in a twin turbine aircraft? What about all the living expenses that the company covers while you are in the different bases. How much was your food and housing bill at the end of three weeks in YRB? Zero. How was your two or three weeks off after your tour in YRB? I enjoyed mine.

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:01 am

I think it's safe to say that Borek is not for everyone.....There are people who LOVE to see exotic places, other who love to see exotic dancers, & then there are those who love staying close to home. Everyone is different. Those who thrive at Borek are the type of people who love seeing exotic places....& maybe also exotic dancers...but definitly not the type that like staying close to friends & family

arcticbeaches · Post by **arcticbeaches** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:42 am

Hmmm lowest pay in Canada.... 32k as a King Air FO with cost of living paid half of the year seems a whole lot better than most operators paying that or less and having to pay for your groceries/gas all year round.

It's $18/day in the north for groceries and everyone eats really well. You can't spend all the money on junk but if you shop properly it's not a problem. Not to mention the huge company paid Thanksgiving dinner we had on the weekend.

Being up north/on the ice/in the maldives may not be for everyone. Consider what you're getting into before you come to the company.

Canada cargo Inc. · Post by **Canada cargo Inc.** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:17 am

You are just experiencing what every other Canadian pilot and mechanic has had to go through. There are thousands of us out here and we know very well what you are experiencing. It will probably take a good 15 to 20 years before you are able to work your way back to civilization. Either you accept these working conditions or go back to school and become a teacher. Then you get to work in the same place forever with 30 young people to deal with on a daily basis. Or you could be a doctor and work 30 hour shifts on your feet all day and night.

No matter what profession you choose - you have to start at the bottom and slowly work you way to the top. Being at the top is no fun either. we then have to work very hard at trying to keep you younger people employed while at the same time trying to satisfy the shareholders voracious appetite for profits. We put in a lot of 18 hour days, eat lousy takeout food, get no exercise and we hope to live long enough to play with our grandchildren. Look around you - you won't see too many 80 year old aviation people still alive. Except maybe my dad and he is still flying to Oshkosh every year. His current motto is ' every day I wake up is a good day'

karl08 · Post by **karl08** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:01 am

johnholmes sounds like your not cut out to fly the bush...who every told u bush flying was "glamourous"...stop whining...as an f/o how much do u really think your worth? y not try instructing...i hear they make really good money starting out

tundratires · Post by **tundratires** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:12 am

Good for you Johnny I think you are one of the few who are brave enough to call it like it is..I've known this outfit since it started and I couldn't agree with you more, ignore the pontiffs who don't have any balls, and only tow the party line because they don't know any better.

GroundSpeed · Post by **GroundSpeed** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:41 am

I have been to to Antarctica, YEV,YFB,YRT, and Resolute and I have to say they are the worst company I have worked for in my life. 32k as a DHC-6 fo ha ha good joke open your eyes, I worked more then 250 days lasy year and did a antarctic tour and never made 32k. You talk about exotic destinations and dancers, Ya there great for the 7 hours you have in town before you have to leave the next morning for another 10 hour ferry flight.

If your thinking about going to Borek ask a captain that started from fo moved up see what he has to say because I promise you you wont get all the sunshine blown up your ass that some of these guys are giving

Also I don't know one fo that got over 1000 hrs last year

. . · Post by **. .** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:16 am

32k on a king air or 20k as FO on a PA-31 or PC-12. Borek may not be all sunshine and lollipops, but there are far far worse places you could get your first thousand hours.

FAF inbound · Post by **FAF inbound** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:40 am

Hey johnholmes!

I'll see your 1700/mo and show you a metro operator that apparantly pays 19K/yr (1583.33 /month) AND has you sign a bond to boot! Quit complaining, or don't buy the $14 milk... you could always buy and bring powdered milk

Still, enjoy the first few 1000 hours of flying and learn as much as you can.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:50 am

Here fishy fishy...
one post? Get some time in, loser

.

johnholmes · Post by **johnholmes** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:53 am

Well I am not sure where the $32k/year came from. Unless the pay has gone up over the last little while. I think $24k is more like it on northern rotations. I am not saying it hasn't worked out for some people but IMHO there are much greener pastures out there these days. Working in a foreign country for $1700/month is shit. Everyone I know that works overseas earns a minimum 6 figure salary. Granted they are not in aviation but come on here. I can guarantee that there are alot of people leaving Borek making sideways moves these days.

auto4 · Post by **auto4** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:58 am

You're right. Borekk really sucks...You have the chance to learn from drivers that flew all over the world....Have the chance to get experience in off-strip, float,ski from the best in the world. All that working for the same company....Yes, they really sucks.

MAX EGT · Post by **MAX EGT** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:09 am

johnholmes wrote: I am not saying it hasn't worked out for some people but IMHO there are much greener pastures out there these days. Working in a foreign country for $1700/month is shit. Everyone I know that works overseas earns a minimum 6 figure salary. Granted they are not in aviation but come on here.

Okay, you've pretty much come to a pretty damn obvious answer: if money is your single highest concern... abandon YOUR flying career.

AJ's fishing lodge called, they want their trolling gear back.

karl08 · Post by **karl08** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:13 am

cant think of a better job to learn from...agreed auto4...how much can a guy learn from doin loser laps in a 150 all day everyday...im sure that wouldnt get boring

Canada cargo Inc. · Post by **Canada cargo Inc.** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:24 am

I have a great deal of respect for all pilots. You do every day what I only want to do on weekends fishing with my dad. Flying an aircraft all by yourself is fun. A minute in the air is worth a week on the ground.

Having having said the above, I personally feel that having a career as a commercial airline pilot working at AC or WJ - flying the same routes day in day out would be the same as being a truck or bus driver. All you end up with is a bad case of piles and a boring assembly line job.

Working at the smaller regional airlines you get a whole lot of variety - you never know from one day to the next where you will be. For a young guy with no family what more could you ask for.

suck it up cupcake - fly is fun.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:39 am

Skipping the money for a moment, what exactly does Resolute Bay, Inuvik and the Maldives mean to you? You have images of swanning about in a TO while the locals throw rose petals at you as you walk to the a/c? Tourists tossing money at you as you bless the crowds? What does flying a TO mean to you? What goes in it and where does it go? What time do you have to get up and what exactly do you think a copilot is needed for on a TO? What do you have to do to the machine when you're done with it so you can use it again tomorrow?

The TO is a truck that flies. You're lucky if you have one with seats in it because you won't have to load it. I had a DC3 with seats that folded up, so you would fly in a load of crap and bring back self-loading freight. At least the TO has a level floor. Putting on the wing covers when it was blowing was a hoot - that's where para-sailing was invented, not Mexico.

Hermans, wing covers, engine covers, oil that won't pour, static that will erase your memory cells, fluids that won't come off your Snow Goose, barrels full of liquids, dogs, smelly passengers, dark, snow, ice, snow and more ice. Cold feet, cold fingers, cold noses frozen snot; and that's just the Maldives!

You still have to pass a ride and do line checks and please the captain...

But if you want to SEE it, and DO it and fly a TO the way it was designed, and be the captain one day?

If you've only ever flown a 172 and the most work you've ever done is to clean out the garage or cut the lawn, this job might be a shock to your system.

Money now - if you think the job is horrible or not for you, how much money should they pay you? Will there ever be enough? How much money would make you happy? I'll bet there is not enough money anywhere to make you happy in this job. Am I right?

What, actually, did you expect when you applied there? I'm sure they didn't seek you out and persuade you to join them.

There are some glamourous flying jobs, such as Air Force One. There are some jobs where all you have to do is pick up your weather and read the flight plan and deliver yourself to the airplane. There are some jobs like that. Most flying jobs are WORK, physical labour that takes place before and after you actually "...slip the surly bonds of earth..."

Many, who are not inclined to work, who pay people to deliver their firewood rather than chop their own, will end up in flying jobs where the only challenge is climbing the ladder. Lots of others will end up working in the bush where there is plenty more to do than just aviate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that there is only airplanes to operate - you will be very unhappy.

johnholmes · Post by **johnholmes** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:11 pm

I am not really sure what an f/o is worth these days. But it has to be more than the $7/hour or so that you make, not to mention you have to live in a 3rd world country. I personally think they are worth more. Borek was not my first aviation gig and hard work doesn't scare me. However I do expect to be treated with respect in return. I can tell you that I have had a variety of jobs throughout my life and have been treated better at all of them. How many of the long time captains there have a nice pention plan to look foreward to and a family to go home to? Not many. Obviously alot of you have never worked there, Groundspeed obviously has because he pretty much summed it up. I am sure there are worse places than Borek that a person can be but there is also alot better places.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:24 pm

JH wazzamatter didn't Jazz call you? you don't like the pay, quit... maybe the extra training costs will move them towards higher pay. otherwise stfu. Suck it Up, Buttercup

Chuck Ellsworth · Post by **Chuck Ellsworth** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:29 pm

Why would you even want to work for peanuts in aviation if you look in the mirror and see John Holmes?

DHC-3 · Post by **DHC-3** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:00 pm

Was raised in bush flying...now at 19yrs old 700hrsTT (250 on DHC-3)
Any chances with Kenn Borek and what's the best way to apply?

masterdab8ter · Post by **masterdab8ter** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:07 pm

In my last year as a copilot I made $34K. Maybe take the extra day or two offered and see what that does. With having low time and trying to get that built ASAP you would be doing this? Before you took the job didn't you ask any of the pilots what working at KBAL was like.( ie. Pay, Rotating, amount of hours flown?)

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:53 pm

DHC-3 wrote:Was raised in bush flying...now at 19yrs old 700hrsTT (250 on DHC-3)
Any chances with Kenn Borek and what's the best way to apply?

I hate you

JK good for you (almost 21 not even 250 total, wanna trade?)

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:59 pm

About Borek, no the pay isn't GREAT. But I'm 21 I hope in a year to have enough time to get on with them, I know its gonna be hard work but i'll be 22 debt free and money isn't everything, I'll work a few years there, get lots of experience see places i'd never get to normally. After i'm done at Borek I'd still be only say 25 still single lots of experience then i can look for a more lucrative or stable option, till then i'm young and unattached, why not.

Borek Sucks!

Borek Sucks!

Borek sucks

Borek sucks