ATPL Written - 750hrs?

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain

Post Reply
User avatar
Grey_Wolf
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 715
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:23 pm

Post by Grey_Wolf »

421.13 Examination Prerequisites

(1) For admission to a written examination required for the issue of a permit, licence or rating an applicant shall have met the medical standards for the issue of the permit, licence or rating and shall produce proof of medical fitness in one of the following forms:

(a) a Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category;

(b) a Medical Assessment Letter (Form 26-0417) in the appropriate medical category;

(c) in the case of a Student Pilot Permit - Aeroplane, Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane or Pilot Licence - Glider, a Civil Aviation Medical Declaration (Form 26-0297);

(d) a temporary Medical Certificate in the appropriate medical category; or

(e) a Medical Examination Report assessed to the appropriate medical category by the Regional Aviation Medical Officer.

(2) For admission to a written examination, proof of identification shall be required in the form of a permit, licence or other official document bearing the signature and photograph of the candidate.
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

(3) To be eligible to write the examination required for the issue of a permit, licence or rating, the candidate shall produce the following letter of recommendation dated within 60 days prior to the date of the written examination:
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

(a) an applicant for a Pilot Permit - Gyroplane, Private Pilot Licence, or Commercial Pilot Licence shall provide a letter of recommendation from the Flight Training Unit or from the flight instructor who is responsible for the training of the applicant, stating that the applicant has completed the ground school instruction, and has reached a sufficient level of knowledge to write the examination;
(amended 2000/09/01; previous version)

(b) an applicant for a Class 4 Instructor Rating shall provide a letter of recommendation from the applicant’s ground training instructor stating that the applicant has completed the ground school instruction, and has reached a sufficient level of knowledge to write the examination;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(c) in the case of a DND applicant, proof of having qualified to pilot wings standard;

(d) in the case of an applicant holding a licence issued by a Contracting State, the recommendation shall not be required provided the applicant is applying for the equivalent or lower Canadian licence;
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

(e) a letter of recommendation required under this subsection may only be used once.
(amended 2003/03/01; no previous version)

(4) To be eligible to write the examination required for the issue of a permit, licence or rating, the candidate shall provide proof that the experience and training requirements set out below have been met:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(a) an applicant for a Pilot Permit - Gyroplane, Pilot Permit - Recreational-Aeroplane, or a Private Pilot Licence shall have completed 10 hours flight time in the same category of aircraft, or hold a valid Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(b) an applicant for a Class 4 Instructor Rating shall have completed fifty percent (50%) of the flight training requirement, and all ground school requirements;

(c) an applicant for a higher class of Instructor Rating shall have completed fifty percent (50%) of the flight instructor experience requirement;

(d) an applicant for an instrument rating shall have completed a minimum of 20 hours of instrument flight or ground time;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(e) an applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) shall, when enrolled in an approved integrated ATP(A) course, have completed the ground school requirements and the Group 1 instrument rating flight test; and
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

(f) all other applicants shall have a minimum of fifty percent (50%) of the total flight experience for the issue of the permit, licence, or rating.
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)
Not sure of what stipulation you may be refering to; but, for kicks if it was "lifted", when would one be able to write the exams, keeping in mind that the exams are "good" for 24 months?

The problem I see is that the newly minted CPL (250 Total Time, we'll assume) is allowed to write them earlier than 750, they still have to get up to 1500. My guess is that the test(s) will "expire" well before they reach the required hours to hold the "AA's"
---------- ADS -----------
 
"A good traveller has no fixed plan and is not intent on arriving." -Lao Tzu
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2130
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Post by C-GGGQ »

you can write the IATRA at 250 hours and you have 2 years to get a PPC to lock it in, it has nothing to do with reaching the 1500 hours by two years, get that PPC and it is locked in until you get the 1500. I also have no idea where the 750 number came from
---------- ADS -----------
 
TopperHarley
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1870
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:56 pm

Post by TopperHarley »

C-GGGQ wrote:you can write the IATRA at 250 hours and you have 2 years to get a PPC to lock it in, it has nothing to do with reaching the 1500 hours by two years, get that PPC and it is locked in until you get the 1500. I also have no idea where the 750 number came from
750 hrs applies to the ATP exams (samra and saron). It is 50% of the total flight time required to hold the rating.

250 hrs applies to the IATRA.
---------- ADS -----------
 
‎"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2130
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Post by C-GGGQ »

aha thanks for the clarification
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5882
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Post by altiplano »

C-GGGQ wrote:2 years to get a PPC to lock it in
It has to be a type rating on an aircraft over 12500. I believe you can also "lock in" your ATPL exams this way.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2130
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Post by C-GGGQ »

according to this the IATRA can be written at 125 hours not 250. That doesn't seem right unless they JUST changed it

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... dixiii.htm
---------- ADS -----------
 
Jeppesen
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:03 pm

Post by Jeppesen »

C-HRIS wrote:
C-GGGQ wrote:you can write the IATRA at 250 hours and you have 2 years to get a PPC to lock it in, it has nothing to do with reaching the 1500 hours by two years, get that PPC and it is locked in until you get the 1500. I also have no idea where the 750 number came from
750 hrs applies to the ATP exams (samra and saron). It is 50% of the total flight time required to hold the rating.

250 hrs applies to the IATRA.
it can't be 750 hrs to write the Samra and Samron exams. We finish in Seneca with 200 hrs and both tests done. (Frozen ATPL)

as for the IATRA I don't know I'm only in first year
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2130
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Post by C-GGGQ »

you do the IATRA (frozen ATPL) the other exams which are clearly stated on that link i gave say 500 hours and 750 hours
---------- ADS -----------
 
TopperHarley
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1870
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:56 pm

Post by TopperHarley »

C-GGGQ wrote:you do the IATRA (frozen ATPL) the other exams which are clearly stated on that link i gave say 500 hours and 750 hours
At Seneca I think they actually have some exemption in order to write the SAMRA and SARON exams, despite only having 250 hrs or less. They have extra groundschooling or something like that.

For all average-joes, the 750hrs still applies.
---------- ADS -----------
 
‎"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
User avatar
C-GGGQ
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2130
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Post by C-GGGQ »

thats less than fair, but whatever. not my problem
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Grey_Wolf
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 715
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:23 pm

Post by Grey_Wolf »

Wouldn't it be nice if peole took the time and actually read and understood the CARs, as posted earlier in the tread in bold ??? ....
it can't be 750 hrs to write the Samra and Samron exams. We finish in Seneca with 200 hrs and both tests done. (Frozen ATPL)
as for the IATRA I don't know I'm only in first year
At Seneca I think they actually have some exemption in order to write the SAMRA and SARON exams, despite only having 250 hrs or less. They have extra groundschooling or something like that.
FOR CLARIFICATION:

Seneca does have an "Integrated Airline Transport Program" which allows students to write the ATPL Exams (SAMRA & SARON) [See website link below] with less than 750 Total Time due to the fact of CAR 421.13-(3e)

http://aviation.senecac.on.ca
For those too lazy, here's the excerpt:
News Release

News release for Seneca College Aviation Program

Seneca College is pleased to announce that it’s Aviation and Flight Technology Degree Program received the first approval in Canada by Transport Canada April 25th to run an Integrated Airline Transport Pilot Program (IATP) as part of its Bachelor of Applied Technology Degree in Aviation. This change in program gives credit to the graduate students toward the Airline Transport Pilot licence and provides the students with training that will get them ready to fly a multi crew aircraft used by the airlines. With the pilot shortage that is happening in the aviation industry, this program will help students be prepared to enter into a direct entry position as a first officer in an airline environment. Airlines have been recruiting pilots directly from programs such as ours in the United States and Europe for a long time and hopefully this will start happen here in Canada soon. In addition to all the requirements to hold a commercial pilots licence, students receive a jet transition program which gives them experience in an high altitude flying environment, multicrew training and operation of a jet aircraft. Seneca is striving to be a leader in pilot training education in Canada

Seneca College is also please to announce being the first Canadian institution to receive accreditation of it Aviation and Flight Technology degree program this past February by the Aviation Accreditation Board International (AABI)
AABI is a not-for-profit organization consisting of educational institutions, corporations, practitioners, trade organizations and members of the public-at-large. AABI is officially recognized as a specialized accrediting body by the Council on Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). Headquartered in Auburn, Alabama, USA, AABI has its international office in Montreal, Canada, near the seat of such international aviation organizations as the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and the International Air Transport Association (IATA).For more information, visit AABI’s website at http://www.aabi.aero.
To achieve accreditation, aviation programs must satisfy the expectations of a wide range of quality standards relating to strategic management of resources, interactions of faculty and students in the educational process and achievement of learning goals in degree
programs. During the accreditation process, the programs are visited and evaluated by academic and industry representatives with detailed knowledge of aviation education, applying accreditation standards that are widely accepted in the educational community.

AABI press release stated, as the first college in Ontario, Canada, to offer bachelor degree studies, Seneca College of Applied Arts and Technology in Toronto continues to transform the education landscape of the province. The degree programs were created specifically to educate students for high growth industries, and the Bachelor of Applied Technology (flight program) is no exception. The program is ideally positioned to meet the future requirements of the Canadian and global aerospace industry by graduating technically competent future managers and leaders. “The [accreditation] visit provided a valuable opportunity for sharing of information and ideas; it is indeed a powerful experience to be assessed by your peers. The academic integrity of our applied degree offerings is critical to us, and we therefore value AABI’s acknowledgement of the quality of the program,” said Dr. Rick Miner, president of Seneca College.
CAR 421.13 3E & F

(E) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) shall, when enrolled in an approved integrated ATP(A) course, have completed the ground school requirements and the Group 1 instrument rating flight test; (amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

OR

(F) all other applicants shall have a minimum of fifty percent (50%) of the total flight experience for the issue of the permit, licence, or rating.
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)


thats less than fair, but whatever. not my problem
I agree but if TC allows it, it MUST be fair .... :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
 
"A good traveller has no fixed plan and is not intent on arriving." -Lao Tzu
TC Aviator
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:17 am
Location: Canada

ATPL Written

Post by TC Aviator »

421.13(4)(e) states: an applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) shall, when enrolled in an approved integrated ATP(A) course, have completed the ground school requirements and the Group 1 instrument rating flight test. All other applicants shall have a minimum of fifty percent (50%) of the total flight experience for the issue of the permit, licence, or rating. (50% of 1500 hrs.)

That's the case at Seneca College which delivers the ATP(A) course.

All examination results are valid for 24 months, except 400.03(2)(b)(iii) states: for the issuance of an airline transport pilot licence — aeroplane, an airline transport pilot licence — aeroplane integrated course was successfully completed during the 5-year period preceding the date of the application for the licence and a course completion certificate was issued. Writing the SAMRA and SARON are part of the course.

In this case the examination results are frozen for 5 years while the applicant accumulates the requisite 1500 hours for the ATPL.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”