Goldak Airborne Surveys

[HuD 91gt]

I am asking this because I am just curious. Is there a reason these guys are asking for 1000tt for an FO on the Navajo? Looks like they do surveying of some sort. Does the FO get paid an obscene amount of money, or have they just not changed their hiring minimum from years ago? Just a thought.[/i]

[Dust Devil]

I am asking this because I am just curious. Is there a reason these guys are asking for 1000tt for an FO on the Navajo? Looks like they do surveying of some sort. Does the FO get paid an obscene amount of money, or have they just not changed their hiring minimum from years ago? Just a thought.[/i]

Probably because it's their company and they can ask for whatever they want.

[TopperHarley]

Survey flying is usually done at very low altitudes so they probably want somebody with a fair amount of experience who can upgrade in a very short while.

[HuD 91gt]

I am asking this because I am just curious. Is there a reason these guys are asking for 1000tt for an FO on the Navajo? Looks like they do surveying of some sort. Does the FO get paid an obscene amount of money, or have they just not changed their hiring minimum from years ago? Just a thought.[/i]

Probably because it's their company and they can ask for whatever they want.

They can ask whatever they want, but they won't see me applying. As I said, just a thought.

[wallypilot]

I am asking this because I am just curious. Is there a reason these guys are asking for 1000tt for an FO on the Navajo? Looks like they do surveying of some sort. Does the FO get paid an obscene amount of money, or have they just not changed their hiring minimum from years ago? Just a thought.[/i]

Probably because it's their company and they can ask for whatever they want.

They can ask whatever they want, but they won't see me applying. As I said, just a thought.

You tell 'em!

Just because it is a Navajo doesn't mean the type of flying they do doesn't require more than basic experience. In survey ops, you have to have sufficient experience to operate away from base, on your own, for months at a time with the CP hundreds or thousands of miles away at home base.

Someone else mentioned the upgrade time...this position will surely yield a left seat promotion within a year, if not months.

And the pay for this ho FO is probably better than any King Air FO, plus you get all your expenses paid while working.

So, keep your application out, and leave it for someone else that can actually look more than 2 months in the future.

cheers
wp

[phillyfan]

You'd really hate us. We ask for more 1000 or more for our Cessna 185.

[altiplano]

If I owned a plane - just about any plane - single, twin, ifr, vfr, whatever - I would want 1000 hours too.

[Downtown]

I'm wondering why they need a co-pilot for survey work. I fly a Navajo on LIDAR and Mag surveys. The mag surveys are done at 300 - 400' AGL in the mountains sometimes and we operate single crew. No operator or co-pilot. Just one person in the plane, the pilot. Is it perhaps an insurance thing?

DT

[HuD 91gt]

Probably because it's their company and they can ask for whatever they want.

They can ask whatever they want, but they won't see me applying. As I said, just a thought.

You tell 'em!

Just because it is a Navajo doesn't mean the type of flying they do doesn't require more than basic experience. In survey ops, you have to have sufficient experience to operate away from base, on your own, for months at a time with the CP hundreds or thousands of miles away at home base.

Someone else mentioned the upgrade time...this position will surely yield a left seat promotion within a year, if not months.

And the pay for this ho FO is probably better than any King Air FO, plus you get all your expenses paid while working.

So, keep your application out, and leave it for someone else that can actually look more than 2 months in the future.

cheers
wp

That's what i'm looking for. An explanation!

As for the comment about looking into the future. Since when does taking one of the lowest positions in the aviation field, hoping(hoping is the key word here) to get an upgrade to the left seat within a few months (MAYBE EVEN A YEAR) assume better planning then taking a direct entry captains position at many of the smaller 703 operations, and hoping to get a captain's seat on one of the smaller multi turbine aircraft in their company(probably at the same time as that survey captain job you were hoping for).

The way I see it, you are putting yourself into the right seat of a single pilot A/C, not even loggable towards an ATPL, when you could be logging PIC time on the same A/C somewhere else with hopes of moving up. Where are you going to move once you get that survey captains seat, no where. Sounds like good planning to me

As for the 1000hours on a 185. I'd rather be sitting there with 1000TT, then right seat of a Navajo.

Man, I need to work more, i'm getting into too many arguments. It was just a question, expecting reasonable answers, not a personal attack.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

Man, I need to work more, i'm getting into too many arguments. It was just a question, expecting reasonable answers, not a personal attack.

Welcome to avcanada.ca

[altiplano]

Maybe I'm out of the loop.

But I haven't seen too many people getting cut loose PIC in a Ho with less than 1000 hours. So if they are looking to get someone who can upgrade what's the problem? Survey flying usually pays way better than any of the "smaller 703 operations" you'll see and they typically have decent rotations. It isn't what I would term "one of the lowest positions" in this business, in fact a lot of people make their careers flying survey - and the low level experience can open doors to other 702 jobs like birddogging... So maybe you should sit back and take a look at the bigger picture - many people see progression and what is desirable in this business in a different light than you maybe?

[wallypilot]

The way I see it, you are putting yourself into the right seat of a single pilot A/C, not even loggable towards an ATPL, when you could be logging PIC time on the same A/C somewhere else with hopes of moving up. Where are you going to move once you get that survey captains seat, no where. Sounds like good planning to me

Well, i guess that's just it....it's the way you see it. No offence, I'm not slagging you....typing responses has a way of coming across in many different tones depending on how you read it.

I have lots of survey experience (in excess of 2500 hours), and I see the 1000 hr req as totally reasonable, and I know that whoever takes that job will be PIC on the Ho in due time, and making good money with a decent lifestyle, and not be humping cargo, or dealing with having to go into weather that maybe a navajo shouldn't be going into.

Survey's not for everyone, but it's a great way to see the world and avoid crappy little 703 operators with marginal maintenance and shite schedules. Survey is not the quickest way to the airlines, if that is what you are looking for. However, you will find that most survey pilots aren't interested in that anyways. It's much more interesting flying than doing the same 4 routes day in/day out.

[HuD 91gt]

Maybe I'm out of the loop.

But I haven't seen too many people getting cut loose PIC in a Ho with less than 1000 hours. So if they are looking to get someone who can upgrade what's the problem? Survey flying usually pays way better than any of the "smaller 703 operations" you'll see and they typically have decent rotations. It isn't what I would term "one of the lowest positions" in this business, in fact a lot of people make their careers flying survey - and the low level experience can open doors to other 702 jobs like birddogging... So maybe you should sit back and take a look at the bigger picture - many people see progression and what is desirable in this business in a different light than you maybe?

No where did I state it was a problem. I was simply asking a question, and I did indeed get an answer. I defended myself on the fact about "looking into the future". I also agree on the fact that it is more fun bombing around a few hundred feet off the ground rather then doing the same sked day in, day out. There are many operators in Canada putting pilots in the Captain position around 1000tt, and under. It was my opinion that sitting around in the right seat may be a slower way to get to that same position. It all depends on where you want to go. If you are happy to do such a job, so be it. I am stating it's not what I would want to do, but it is also not where I want to stay.

If a right seat Navajo position is not one of Aviations lowest positions, what is? In your opinion of course.

[HuD 91gt]

The way I see it, you are putting yourself into the right seat of a single pilot A/C, not even loggable towards an ATPL, when you could be logging PIC time on the same A/C somewhere else with hopes of moving up. Where are you going to move once you get that survey captains seat, no where. Sounds like good planning to me

Well, i guess that's just it....it's the way you see it. No offence, I'm not slagging you....typing responses has a way of coming across in many different tones depending on how you read it.

I have lots of survey experience (in excess of 2500 hours), and I see the 1000 hr req as totally reasonable, and I know that whoever takes that job will be PIC on the Ho in due time, and making good money with a decent lifestyle, and not be humping cargo, or dealing with having to go into weather that maybe a navajo shouldn't be going into.

Survey's not for everyone, but it's a great way to see the world and avoid crappy little 703 operators with marginal maintenance and shite schedules. Survey is not the quickest way to the airlines, if that is what you are looking for. However, you will find that most survey pilots aren't interested in that anyways. It's much more interesting flying than doing the same 4 routes day in/day out.

Point taken, but as the ad states, no where does it say FO needed for quick upgrade. Or something similar. From what I see in the ad, they are looking for an FO. These positions are given to 200hr pilots all over Canada.

From the beginning, I was just asking why they had such high minimums, when similar jobs could be had with much less experience(Time on type wise). This question was answered in the above post.

[Ray-Ban]

HuD 91gt,

Why don't you phone and ask the contact person stated in the ad instead of getting all hell bent over nothing.

I heard this advise on this forum before...

" you don't like it, don't apply "

Enough pissin' and moanin' already.

[altiplano]

If a right seat Navajo position is not one of Aviations lowest positions, what is? In your opinion of course.

Working for next to nothing on a shitty schedule for a shitty operator with marginal maintenance in the middle of nowhere. Whether Lear, King Air or Cessna that would be the lowest position for me. That or instructing.

But hey, that's just me - some people might like that. For me it is less about equipment and more about quality of life, job satisfaction and pay. If this job had that for me and I was in need of employment then I would have nothing against sitting in a ho again.

sitting around in the right seat

I don't know what you do as a co-jo or what you think the job entails, but when I was co-pilot I didn't ride around sitting on my hands and throw the gear and flaps down when required. I learned a ton from the guys I flew with - flew every other leg from the left side and was expected to be every bit as proficient in my job. When I upgraded I had seen it and done it and i was happy for the time I spent there.

[HuD 91gt]

HuD 91gt,

Why don't you phone and ask the contact person stated in the ad instead of getting all hell bent over nothing.

I heard this advise on this forum before...

" you don't like it, don't apply "

Enough pissin' and moanin' already.

Isn't that what this forums is about. Discussing? I am not interested in the job at all, so I am asking my fellow forum members if they can fill me in on the situation.

EDITED: Sorry caught up in the moment, didn't mean to come off rude.

[HuD 91gt]

If a right seat Navajo position is not one of Aviations lowest positions, what is? In your opinion of course.

Working for next to nothing on a shitty schedule for a shitty operator with marginal maintenance in the middle of nowhere. Whether Lear, King Air or Cessna that would be the lowest position for me. That or instructing.

But hey, that's just me - some people might like that. For me it is less about equipment and more about quality of life, job satisfaction and pay. If this job had that for me and I was in need of employment then I would have nothing against sitting in a ho again.

sitting around in the right seat

I don't know what you do as a co-jo or what you think the job entails, but when I was co-pilot I didn't ride around sitting on my hands and throw the gear and flaps down when required. I learned a ton from the guys I flew with - flew every other leg from the left side and was expected to be every bit as proficient in my job. When I upgraded I had seen it and done it and i was happy for the time I spent there.

Well if you have thousands of hours, a family, and a mortgage those things would be important for sure. Speaking for the young low timers out there, those things arn't as important. Your opinion versus mine.. No one is going to win this argument.

If you are co-pilot, you are part of the crew and you are part of every descision in the cockpit. Your still flying right seat in a single pilot machine. I did it, it was fun, learned a ton, but do you think someone wants to be there for a career as you had said before? Please, give me a break.

I am getting way off topic here, and I wish I could write a proper paragraph without sidetracking.

What was asked:

Why does this job have such high Minimums?

Conclusion:
Apparently they are looking for a captain
They fly low level requiring more experience

That was really all that was needed in the thread.

[altiplano]

Please, give me a break.

No!

quality of life, job satisfaction and pay

Speaking for the young low timers out there, those things arn't as important.

And that is the problem with this industry from a professional standpoint.

Anyway, glad you got your answers...

[HuD 91gt]

And that is the problem with this industry from a professional standpoint.

Haha, How did I know that was going to be your response. But hey, can't blame a kid for being motivated.

[Dust Devil]

Is there a list out there that dictates what job is higher up the so called ranks as another? I know survey guys flying ho's and caravans that make far more than people flying King Airs and other twin turbines. So what makes people assume the twin turbine is automatically the better job. Is it all about the legendary path to the airlines? who declared the airlines the top gig? Not to say that it isn't for some people. It just bugs me that there is this blanket attitude in the industry that you should spend your whole career chasing the big iron. If you ask me it sounds like small di** syndrome

[altiplano]

DD-

Didn't you get the memo?

[Rowdy]

It's all about one thing.. experiences and LIFESTYLE!

[altiplano]

mmmmm - that's 2 things Rowdy...

[HuD 91gt]

Is there a list out there that dictates what job is higher up the so called ranks as another? I know survey guys flying ho's and caravans that make far more than people flying King Airs and other twin turbines. So what makes people assume the twin turbine is automatically the better job. Is it all about the legendary path to the airlines? who declared the airlines the top gig? Not to say that it isn't for some people. It just bugs me that there is this blanket attitude in the industry that you should spend your whole career chasing the big iron. If you ask me it sounds like small di** syndrome

Obviously there is exceptions to the rule, generally speaking it is true. I don't think anyone can deny that one.

If you ask me it sounds like small di** syndrome

I'll show you mine if you show me yours