Do we clip wings of older pilots?

[Widow]

Do we clip wings of older pilots?
To Harry Pride, 82, the issue is competence, not age. But recent fatal crashes are raising safety questions
Larry Pynn, Vancouver Sun

Published: Saturday, November 03, 2007

If you are standing at the Victory Square cenotaph on Hastings Street on Remembrance Day and look skyward at 11 a.m. you should see a formation of private aircraft that includes a Piper Arrow piloted by 82-year-old Harry Pride.

Pride first learned to fly in 1945 aboard a military Tiger Moth, went on to pilot dozens of types of aircraft, and successfully trained to fly seaplanes solo just two years ago.

To anyone who questions whether older pilots are safe to fly, Pride allows that he keeps in good physical condition through exercise, diet and sleep, and that he voluntarily sees his cardiologist once a year.

"It's not age, it's competence," the retired Burnaby school principal insisted. "I take a lot of people up and I want to make sure I'm healthy. Nobody wants to go up and kill somebody."

The face of private aviation is rapidly aging in Canada. Transport Canada statistics compiled at The Vancouver Sun's request show the number of Canadians aged 65 or older holding a private pilot's licence has increased 67 per cent over the past decade to 3,192 in 2007; among pilots aged 60-64, there has been an 82-per-cent increase to 2,411.

The issue of aging pilots has been thrust into the public spotlight as a result of the fatal crashes of three private planes piloted by senior citizens in B.C. over the past two weeks.

An 82-year-old Maple Ridge pilot died after his plane slammed into a Richmond apartment building Oct. 19. On Sunday, a 65-year-old Edmonton pilot and his passenger died near Golden, and on Friday a 69-year-old Calgary pilot and two passengers died when their plane crashed near Invermere.

The causes of all three crashes remain under investigation by the federal Transportation Safety Board.

Meanwhile, a 61-year-old Nanaimo pilot is missing after his aircraft disappeared Oct. 23 on a flight home from Alberta. His last known position was about 150 km west of Salmon Arm.

Pat Kennedy is chief operating officer of the Pacific Flying Club, which maintains a fleet of 23 aircraft for members as well as pilots in training at Boundary Bay Airport in Delta.

Kennedy said in an interview that the latest crashes should prompt Transport Canada to at least investigate whether special restrictions are warranted for older pilots.

"It's time for them to do a risk assessment and see what's the best avenue to take," she said. "The type of incidents that we've had the past two weeks ... you have to look at it. Whether it's ultimately determined age was a contributing factor, we may never know ... but we're doing a disservice if we don't at least look at it."

Kennedy plans to raise the issue at the annual general meeting next week in Halifax of the Air Transport Association of Canada.

"I'd like to see Transport Canada take a leadership position," she said, noting it's difficult for individual operators to impose age-based restrictions for fear of incurring a human rights complaint.

She suggested one option would be to introduce a "restricted medical" by which pilots beyond a certain age, such as 75, must fly with another pilot or be required to be tested in an aircraft every one or two years by an approved examiner to ensure they still have the skills to safely pilot an aircraft solo.

Transport Canada requires private pilots to have a medical exam every five years until age 40, when they must be examined every two years. Ottawa used to require older pilots to have annual exams until 2000, when the regulation was relaxed to remain consistent with international aviation standards.

Transport Canada also requires Canadians to fly at least once in every five-year period to maintain a private pilot's licence, and to take certain types of training every two years to maintain skills, including a flight review by a flight instructor, a safety seminar, or an approved study program.

Jay Danforth, senior regional aviation medical officer with Transport Canada, said from Edmonton that if something turns up during a medical examination every two years such as a heart condition or diabetes, the pilot may be required to have an annual exam, perhaps with medical reports every six months.

"From a medical standpoint, we're watching them as closely as we can within the bounds of our current human rights legislation," he said.

"To simply say, 'At age 70, well, now have you do a medical every three months' ... would violate the Charter [of Rights and Freedoms], probably."

Danforth said there are other industry checks and balances. Flight clubs can impose their own restrictions on pilots wanting to rent aircraft (Pacific Flying Club requires a check-flight at least once a year) and insurance companies take steps to ensure pilots are qualified and not getting rusty.

Families can also exert influence over an older pilot who might be exhibiting reduced skills. "They don't want granddad to crash his airplane because he's not all there."

Kennedy suggested the demographics of an aging population are a major factor in the growing number of older pilots, but also noted that aging Canadians are healthier and able to fly longer. Some empty-nesters also find themselves with enough time and disposable income to fulfil a lifelong dream to fly, she added.

lpynn@png.canwest.com

PRIVATE PILOTS

HEALTH AND SKILL CHECKS

• - Transport Canada's rules are consistent with international aviation regulations that require private pilots to have a medical exam every five years until age 40, after which the requirement for an exam is every two years.
  
  - Pilots with certain medical problems such as heart disease may be required to have a medical exam annually.
  
  - Private pilots must fly at least once every five years to maintain their licences.
  
  - Flight clubs typically have tougher standards, such as a flight check annually for anyone renting planes.
  
  - Every two years, Transport Canada requires private pilots to chose from a list of actions designed to maintain flying skills, such as completion of a flight review conducted by a flight instructor, or completion of a training program on subject areas such as human factors, meteorology, flight planning, and navigation.

Article here: Vancouver Sun

[sky's the limit]

I think we should just take all the old pilots, throw them in large pot, render them down to a highly concentrated liquid containing 1000yrs of years of flight experience, and sell it to new students.

Seriously though, the age of pilots is something that needs to be assessed on an individual basis, some 80yr olds are in much better health than others, so a blanket cut-off really makes no sense. The one thing our aviation community in Canada lacks, is the recycling of experience, we should be trying involve the older generation of experienced pilots as much as possible.

stl

[mighty mouse]

Or, over 80, not allowed to fly over cities, over 90 not allowed to fly with out another pilot on board.

[Doc]

We would save a HELL OF A LOT MORE LIVES if we started pulling licenses from old car drivers! It's bloody silly. All they have to do is pass an eye test, and a written every year past 80! Then they head down the interstate and risk lives all the way to Florida! I think every Private Pilot should do a review flight with an instructor, or at least an ATPL every second year. They do this in the States. Regardless of age. There are a lot of pilots flying around under 40 that should have their wings clipped!

[Ralliart]

Or, over 80, not allowed to fly over cities

What does that mean? It's ok to kill yourself as long as it doesn't harm other persons?

That's like the logic of a recreational pilot permit only being allowed 1 passenger in a 4 seat aircraft. It's ok to kill 1 passenger, but not 3.

In the US, the FAA requires a biennial flight review for every active pilot at least once in a 2 year period. The BFR must include 1 hour of ground instruction/review and 1 hour of flight instruction/review.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biennial_flight_review

[Hedley]

Knee jerk reactions are typical, but I think most of us would agree
that data-driven decisions are more sensible.

If you look at recent aviation accidents, in over 90% of
them you will find a young, white male at the controls at the
time of impact.

Anyone else spot the pattern here? Clearly, in the interest
of aviation safety, young white males should not be permitted
to fly aircraft.

[Longtimer]

We would save a HELL OF A LOT MORE LIVES if we started pulling licenses from old car drivers! It's bloody silly. All they have to do is pass an eye test, and a written every year past 80! Then they head down the interstate and risk lives all the way to Florida! I think every Private Pilot should do a review flight with an instructor, or at least an ATPL every second year. They do this in the States. Regardless of age. There are a lot of pilots flying around under 40 that should have their wings clipped!

If what you say is true, then how come insurance companies in Canada provide drivers that are over 50 with much lower auto insurance premiums that they charge to those under 50??? If what you said was true then, since the insurance companies are out to make a profit, insurance costs for older drivers would be much higher than for younger ones.

[Liquid Charlie]

Ya -- ask Bob Hoover about all the BS

[sky's the limit]

So nobody's into the rendering idea huh? Would solve the CPP issue too....


stl

[Liquid Charlie]

We all have the potential of being an "old" pilot -- -- but during the rendering process how do you separate the bull shit -- lmaoooooo -- get back to me on that one --

[SkyWolfe]

I think it would make more sence in the driving and flying world, after 60 maybe just recurrency checks to keep valid. Just some basic in air/while driving assesments... Maybe yearly. Its not that older people aren't sharp. It mostly that they are more likely to become ill, loose eyesight, become senial... etc... Not to say weird s*it doesnt happen at younger ages... But its less /likely/. If your sharp and a good pilot, it shouldnt make any difference.

[Ogee]

With the possible exception of the Richmond crash, there is nothing to suggest that these crashes had anything to do with being older. The Malibu had an engine failure. That's why it went down in the mountains. Not because the pilot was 65. Is this guy from Pacific saying that if the pilot had been 40 everything would have been fine?

And the Golden crash. If you take off for Alberta with low clouds and snow around Golden, you are most likely going to crash, no matter how old you are.

I was about to go an renew my IFR at Pacific. I think I'll be switching my business to John Boy at Pro after this.

[Cat Driver]

She suggested one option would be to introduce a "restricted medical" by which pilots beyond a certain age, such as 75, must fly with another pilot or be required to be tested in an aircraft every one or two years by an approved examiner to ensure they still have the skills to safely pilot an aircraft solo.

Yeh Pat, thats a great idea, would you be one of the " approved " examiners?

Jeses I can't believe some of the stupid ideas that are floated in the media....

So by that convoluted thought process if when I turn 75 and pass my medical to the same standards as I now hold I will be " restricted " even though I am still as healthy as I always was?

What utter garbage...

Kennedy plans to raise the issue at the annual general meeting next week in Halifax of the Air Transport Association of Canada.

And they will probably give her a standing ovation.

[. ._]

Maybe a graduated flight review?

under 40- every 5 years
40-60-every 2 years
60+ every year

Something like that? It's sorta like the medical.

I think that's reasonable. Just an idea.

-istp

[Cat Driver]

istp:

There should be a fixed requirement for recurrent training and a flight test for all ages of pilots.......

[xsbank]

Every pilot should be required to do a recurrent every year. Period. If you're not getting the annuals or the 6 month recurrents with a company, you should be required to do an annual.

And that goes for drivers, too. Why do we think that a driver's license is good for life? We should all be re-tested every 2 or 3 years. Everyone.

Calling for tests based on age is specious.

[Rockie]

The health of elderly people often degrades very quickly. My own father went from perfectly healthy to being a hazard on the road in a very, very short time. And physically healthy people can suffer debilitating competency problems very quickly because of dementia and other mental health issues. A medical exam is only one part of the equation. Some sort of competency exam at increasing intervals as a person gets older is appropriate not only for pilot licences, but driving licences as well. This is not a human rights issue, it is a public safety issue.

There will always be the Bob Hoover's and others like him, but the vast majority of us mere mortals are not so lucky. Experience does not count when we lose our mental faculties, and if I'm still flying planes at 80 I only hope that I have the sense to get myself tested very regularly to make sure I am not a hazard.

[sky's the limit]

We all have the potential of being an "old" pilot -- -- but during the rendering process how do you separate the bull shit -- lmaoooooo -- get back to me on that one --

You see, THAT is where I'm going to make my millions.... I'm patenting a super secret "Bullshit Remover" for an application just like this.... Early trials have been promising, but there are a few glitches, it doesn't yet work on pilots. Lol.

Wanna invest? I could use some 'start-up' dough?

stl

[Bede]

Every pilot should be required to do a recurrent every year. Period. If you're not getting the annuals or the 6 month recurrents with a company, you should be required to do an annual.

And that goes for drivers, too. Why do we think that a driver's license is good for life? We should all be re-tested every 2 or 3 years. Everyone.

Calling for tests based on age is specious.

And I'm sure you won't have a problem paying the extra user fee (read: tax) that would be applied at every test.

[Ballsssssss]

We all have the potential of being an "old" pilot -- -- but during the rendering process how do you separate the bull shit -- lmaoooooo -- get back to me on that one --

You just evaporate the BS off....like a still. Then you are left with 90 proof pilot and some 150 proof BS bi-product. You could sell the BS bi-product to TC..make a fortune.

[Driving Rain]

If youth knew; if age could. Sigmund Freud

In the US manditory retirement at age 60 is a big money saver for the airlines. 60 year old pilots make a lot more money than 30 year old ones.

[Liquid Charlie]

soon to change -- the USA will follow the rest of the world and it will be 65 - They got to pay the big bucks to keep the "old lads" around - pilot shortages demand it -- rob the pensions and for some strange reason guys feel they have to work a little longer -- like any other rules set many years ago they become out dated and need revision. Over all health is improving -- life expectancy is increasing and a 65 year old man today is likely more healthy than a 40 year old at the turn of the last century -

and for the young guys who want my seat -- don't worry you will turn grey before you know it and your views will do a miraculous about face


Now to get the bull shit separator developed -- -- maybe I can at least heat my house with it -- lmfaooooo

[Rockie]

If youth knew; if age could. Sigmund Freud

In the US manditory retirement at age 60 is a big money saver for the airlines. 60 year old pilots make a lot more money than 30 year old ones.

I don't think it's a money saver for the airlines as much as you think because North American carriers pay by equipment type. Retire a twelve year Captain on the B-777 and you have to replace him with another twelve year Captain getting paid the same thing. If anything you have additional training costs because one seat right down the line to the bottom moves up a notch.

[Wasn't Me]

Having celebrated 40 years in aviation this May, I am starting to show a little gray. I'm with DOC, all pilots under 50 should be grounded, that would reduce air fatalities by 95 percent.

On a serious note, maybe it's time to look at the medical standards for all pilots. Raising them by adding a few more tests might reduce the health problem for all age groups.

[sky's the limit]

My last three medicals, the examiner has done little more than make me read the eye chart, take my blood pressure, and take my cheque. I think the quality of exams needs to be looked at, along with the quality of flight training, and the quality license content in order to make the whole system safer and more consistent.

All three areas are lacking,

stl