Porter & how it's doing?

[THEICEMAN]

How are the loads on porter these days? When is YTZ-EWR starting up?

How is the expansion plan gonna work, considering the fact that they are supposed to get 10 Q400?

[pointyertoes]

The loads are great.
EWR starts early in the new year with the arrival of a/c 5&6
Tremblant weekend flights begin on 22 December for the holidays
Terminal expansion and new gates are coming along nicely (due for completion in December).

[V1RotateV2]

Why is everybody so obsessed with loads?
Porter has announced that it became profitable sometime in Summer/07. That is the important factor.

Many carriers were flying full before going bankrupt or while loosing billions (remember Pan Am, Braniff, Eastern, and in 2005 UA, AC, AA, etc.).

Yield, not loads, is where I would focus my attention. Those yields will also help if the economy slows down or oil prices keep rising.
On the other hand, they are building new gates, hiring and expanding.
Guess they must be doing well.

[pointyertoes]

Yield, not loads, is where I would focus my attention. Those yields will also help if the economy slows down or oil prices keep rising.

You nailed it. It's all about the yield

[dashx]

High yields + construction trucks = broken ferry docks

That thing going to fixed/paved anytime soon?

[THEICEMAN]

Agreed!
But.....
Crap loads = bad yields

[CanadaEH]

Porter has announced that it became profitable sometime in Summer/07. That is the important factor.

With all due respect Jetsgo said it was profitable when it was clearly not.

[V1RotateV2]

But.....
Crap loads = bad yields

Not really. Would you prefer to fill the plane with 100 pax at the "special" $11 fare to YUL or rather have 20 paying $200?

With all due respect Jetsgo said it was profitable when it was clearly not.

True. But I find it hard to believe they are lying about being profitable and then handling out bonus money to all employees.

Guess only time will tell. They have only been around for one year with 4 planes, no hard figures to analyze, just a good outlook so far.

[THEICEMAN]

But.....
Crap loads = bad yields

Not really. Would you prefer to fill the plane with 100 pax at the "special" $11 fare to YUL or rather have 20 paying $200?

With all due respect Jetsgo said it was profitable when it was clearly not.

True. But I find it hard to believe they are lying about being profitable and then handling out bonus money to all employees.

Guess only time will tell. They have only been around for one year with 4 planes, no hard figures to analyze, just a good outlook so far.

Agreed! & that was why Jetsgo went down...

But Porter has the firm/flex/freedom fare structure. Low loads & you can buy the firm @79$......med loads & you have to buy a felx @ 186.....heavy loads & you have to buy freedom at 266$
So if loads are good? Then technically, they would have made money given they keep to their fare structure.
Just a short term indication, that is all.

Break even on the Q400 with low cost structure should be what?? 34 pax?

I see on their website that they are offering YUL-Mont-Tremblant??
Are they nuts!!

The airport at Tremblant is 30Km north of the resorts. So Pax can fly 1/2 hour then take 1/2 bus ride? When they can drive it in 1, 1/2 hour! & save a lot of cash!

What are they thinking??

[Valhalla]

But.....
Crap loads = bad yields

Not really. Would you prefer to fill the plane with 100 pax at the "special" $11 fare to YUL or rather have 20 paying $200?

With all due respect Jetsgo said it was profitable when it was clearly not.

True. But I find it hard to believe they are lying about being profitable and then handling out bonus money to all employees.

Guess only time will tell. They have only been around for one year with 4 planes, no hard figures to analyze, just a good outlook so far.

Agreed! & that was why Jetsgo went down...

But Porter has the firm/flex/freedom fare structure. Low loads & you can buy the firm @79$......med loads & you have to buy a felx @ 186.....heavy loads & you have to buy freedom at 266$
So if loads are good? Then technically, they would have made money given they keep to their fare structure.
Just a short term indication, that is all.

Break even on the Q400 with low cost structure should be what?? 34 pax?

I see on their website that they are offering YUL-Mont-Tremblant??
Are they nuts!!

The airport at Tremblant is 30Km north of the resorts. So Pax can fly 1/2 hour then take 1/2 bus ride? When they can drive it in 1, 1/2 hour! & save a lot of cash!

What are they thinking??

Iceman, you seem to be quite the expert... How's your banner-towing job going?

[Nightflight]

Break even on the Q400 with low cost structure should be what?? 34 pax?

It's less than that. If I can remember what Bombardier was advertising it's more like 25 or around there.

I see on their website that they are offering YUL-Mont-Tremblant??
Are they nuts!!

The airport at Tremblant is 30Km north of the resorts. So Pax can fly 1/2 hour then take 1/2 bus ride? When they can drive it in 1, 1/2 hour! & save a lot of cash!

What are they thinking??

Perhaps they are thinking about all the tourists that fly in to YUL from various parts, especially the US that want to connect. Even with the high Canadian $, Tremblant should still remain popular given the affluence of most of the people that go there.

[THEICEMAN]

Perhaps they are thinking about all the tourists that fly in to YUL from various parts, especially the US that want to connect. Even with the high Canadian $, Tremblant should still remain popular given the affluence of most of the people that go there.

That could be a possiblity? Didn't think about it...thanx

Iceman, you seem to be quite the expert... How's your banner-towing job going?

Business is a bit slow but it's fun!

You can say I know a thing or two about the business side of the airline world....

[dashx]

So. Tremblant....

Are they trying to compete with Voyageur with this one or has Voyageur bowed out of this run?

[Pratt X 3]

I see on their website that they are offering YUL-Mont-Tremblant??
Are they nuts!!

Where on the website do you see YUL to Mont-Tremblant? I only see YYZ departures.

http://www.flyporter.ca/en/flight_sched ... #tremblant

Edit: Sorry, I just noticed the small notation showing the connection through YUL. Please forgive.

[JBL]

Break even on the Q400 with low cost structure should be what?? 34 pax?

It's less than that. If I can remember what Bombardier was advertising it's more like 25 or around there.

Bombardier is in the business of selling airplanes. B/E LF is influenced by ownership cost, operating cost, daily utilization, pricing structure.

It would be interesting to know what the price of oil was when Bombardier set that LF.

[THEICEMAN]

Break even on the Q400 with low cost structure should be what?? 34 pax?

It's less than that. If I can remember what Bombardier was advertising it's more like 25 or around there.

Bombardier is in the business of selling airplanes. B/E LF is influenced by ownership cost, operating cost, daily utilization, pricing structure.

It would be interesting to know what the price of oil was when Bombardier set that LF.

Not sure anybody was thinking a 100$p/b??? Presently, if I was running an airline, I would would q400s that's for sure.....

Imagine how bad it must be for the crj100/200....
Break even PLF was 60% below 30$p/b...imagine now? Ouch!

[JBL]

Be careful using only yield as a measure. Airline seats are a perishable comodity. No different than selling tomatoes in a market. Once the plane goes, the empty seats represent missed selling opportunity. If you are selling 100 tomatoes at $1.00 each and you've sold 30 tomatoes. It's coming up on closing time and you have 70 tomatoes left. Do you bin them or try to get as much money as you can recognizing that they will not be saleable tomorrow.

Yield is important, as is ASK/RPK, B.E.LF, etc. Block hour revenues is arguably a better measure of performance.

[THEICEMAN]

Thanks for pointing that out!

ASK/RPK is porbably the most important stat!

[oldncold]

REVENUE PER PAX SEAT MILE vs cost structure of all ops and fixed cost= profit or loss

this is the way that determines aircraft fleet replacement or shuffleing the fleet on certain route segments to optimize rev per seat mile.

[dashx]

I was told that the break even point on the 100's was 13 pax and 17 on the 300's. Air Ontario days....

Is that still true?

Somehow I don't think Porter will ever divulge the break even point on their 400's.

[bynaul]

I was told that the break even point on the 100's was 13 pax and 17 on the 300's. Air Ontario days....

Is that still true?

Somehow I don't think Porter will ever divulge the break even point on their 400's.

From a Globe article last December.

"Robert Kokonis, president of AirTrav Inc., an airline and travel management consulting firm, said Porter faces a steep climb. “History hasn't been kind to airline startups,” he said. If Porter manages to fill an average of 20 seats a flight during 2007, or a load factor of 28.5 per cent, the airline should be able to survive into 2008, Mr. Kokonis said."

Porter doesn't look like it's going out of business any time soon.

[THEICEMAN]

I was told that the break even point on the 100's was 13 pax and 17 on the 300's. Air Ontario days....

Is that still true?

Somehow I don't think Porter will ever divulge the break even point on their 400's.

From a Globe article last December.

"Robert Kokonis, president of AirTrav Inc., an airline and travel management consulting firm, said Porter faces a steep climb. “History hasn't been kind to airline startups,” he said. If Porter manages to fill an average of 20 seats a flight during 2007, or a load factor of 28.5 per cent, the airline should be able to survive into 2008, Mr. Kokonis said."

Porter doesn't look like it's going out of business any time soon.

The fact that they own the ramp at YTZ helps a lot!