Can some past and current instructors fill me in on how your company dealt with no shows.....my school has a mainly international program and these guys dont seem to care the slightest bit about being charged $50.

Is there a standard no show rate in the industry and do other schools charge more for no shows?? and how much of this fee should the instructors be getting??

~Hollywood~

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Here it is ground time for the full flight, instructor gets paid normally... although there is a warning and then a meeting with the CFI the second time.

Personnally, I think that if the students cancels for some stupid reason like they forgot or they don't feel like coming in, then charge them full instructor time for the time of their bookings. If it is emergency or some other justifiable reason, then no charge.... although you have to be carfull with that one... If they are lying about it, then like boosted said, get rid of them.

And don't take any crap, if they cancel, you don't get paid!

When I was training the "No Show" fee was half of your booked time (in hours) x 45$ per hour.

On the flip side, when I was instructing, if you were not going to show, your were advised to give a courtesy call with as much notice as possible so that the plane and instructor were not tied up sitting on the ground. If it was mutually deemed that the reason was accepetable, no charge, if it wasn't then 100% of my time. If you "No Showed" without a call, you were billed 100% of my time, regardless of the reason.

... and taking an exerpt from The Savvy Flight Instructor

Consider this: For a student pilot, the plane is worthless without an instructor. Good flight training results exclusively from quality instruction, and if you feel good enough about your skills to teach someone to fly an airplane, then you're certainly entitled to be paid for your time.

Going back to the orignal post, if your international students don't seem to care the slightest bit about being charged $50, then up the no-show fee to something like half of their booked time for plane and instructor. So let's say if they no show a 2 hour booking, they would still have to pay for 1 hour of each (For example: 100$ for the plane, 50 for the instructor). That 'increase' in the no show fee may just be enough to motivate them to show up. Granted that some of these students are financially well off due to their parents, in an extreme case, is to send them home for their unwillingless to learn as demonstrated by repeated 'no shows'.

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Im not %100 sure on how this all works with the international guys, but correct me if im wrong, when they come here on a student visa isn't there visa good just for the school thats specified?? For some reason I thought that sending them to another school was not an option for us, just sending them back.

Also, before they actually started their training, they had to sign a contract that already specified that the no show fee was $50 so I dont believe we can switch it on them once they have started their training.

I just wanted to know what some other schools are doing about this and how much other schools were charging for no show fees and what the instructors were getting....thanks for the replies

~Hollywood~

At Pro the Indian students booked the aircraft in advance for their solo cross countries for the CPL.
They would then cancel them at short notice.
If the weather was VFR and the cross country flight could have been completed then the no show charge was multiplied by the number of hours the aeroplane was booked.
The upped no show charges had an effect on the international students, and a very much more serious effect on the poorer local Canadian students!

if it's chronic, just send them to another school.

I agree with this to an extent... I'd just tell them to go away!
The international students who have a bad attitude towards scheduling should be sent home. Are they going to be allowed to take that attitude in the airline?

"I have to cancel today because I don't feel well"... 'because last night I was in the Sundance drinking beer until after midnight'.

What is missing sometimes in this age of PC is discipline.
When the Empire desperately needed pilots to go shoot at the Germans, pilots were trained in Canada.
If the student didn't get it, did not have discipline, he was washed out.

Both India and China are desperate for pilots, but I believe that we need to weed out the ones who just don't get it.

The future of aviation safety depends upon it.

Looking after the locals

The schools and the club who are training foreign students as their primary function should be careful not to alienate the people who have been there to support them before the current onslaught of profitable foreign students.

MichaelP wrote:
"I have to cancel today because I don't feel well"... 'because last night I was in the Sundance drinking beer until after midnight'.

Or maybe its people like me who actually have legitimates reasons, like taking care of my ill family members who really are sick. Whatever, don't brand everyone with the same stick.

Especially when people decide to charge my bf no show fees for being with me in the hospital till 3 am.

I guess I shouldnt bother trying to get an education.

No shows where I work are the full length of the booking, charging the instruction rate. It's the instructor's discretion whether to charge the full length of time or not.

kick them in the nuts if they are late

Or maybe its people like me who actually have legitimates reasons, like taking care of my ill family members who really are sick. Whatever, don't brand everyone with the same stick.

This is a problem on this forum, people don't read correctly and consider the context in which the sentence was written.

They jump to immediate conclusions of something bad and react in a negative way.
This is not a good trait in a pilot who should consider the information and the options very carefully.

I am an instructor who has had many frustrating cancellations.
But before I impose a no-show fee I want to know the reason why.
If the reason is "taking care of my ill family members who really are sick" then I would not charge a no-show.
I consider the information and then the options of charge or no charge.

The school I was at will automatically charge a no show unless I put a word in for the person concerned.
Too many people cancel due to reasons such as my example.
Because of this, the no-show charges were increased.

In my last weeks at Boundary Bay I was both working on the new start-up school and giving my time to the other school, supervising etc.
An Indian student asked me to go over the POH performance charts... I was very busy, but I said 6 o'clock and I went over there at 6 o'clock, and she had gone home!
There was no No-Show fee, we had a booking between us, not on the sheet.

When I instructed, I never had any no-shows! Kept all my students locked in the basement in chains! Otherwise, they'd all just run away.

Doc wrote:When I instructed, I never had any no-shows! Kept all my students locked in the basement in chains! Otherwise, they'd all just run away.

Good idea!

Two schools of thought here:

Yes, the instructor doesen't deserve to get screwed.


However, the school ultimately works for the student, not the other way around.

I've been charged a no-show fee for being unable to attend due to illness (no, not the 24 hours flu), family issues etc. At the same time, i've shown up for bookings without instructors and or aircraft without even being told.

Did I make a huge stink? NO! Why? Because its a two way street..I expect the school to be able to bend for me..as I do for them.

Also, last time I checked, the student ultimately loses when he/ she cancels a booking as well..it simply take them longer.. Why would I want to delay my progress unless I feel that I cannot legimately complete the lesson.. Think..CARS.. Is it prudent PDM to conduct a flight when you are in reduced capacity??

Last time I checked, that was the goal of an FTU..to instill this.. Similarly, the student is responsible to get his/ her shit together..

I think a azz kickin' is called for



These guys know how to run a tight FTU!

The shitty thing is that the student has no recourse if the darn instructor is an hour late. How can you no show an instructor? Unless you try and kill him in the airplane....which would have a negative impact on your day too probably. So ya.....really, as a student, we are getting fisted in the ass with no lube if the instructor is late!

Fek

Captain_Canuck wrote: The shitty thing is that the student has no recourse if the darn instructor is an hour late.

That's why a simple courteous phone call letting all parties know what's happening usually prevents this kind of issues, this way other arrangements can be made; hopefully with a positive result for all.

Ever think of swiching instructors? If your instructor doesn't have the decency to show up on time without just cause; doesn't that tell you you that they may not respect you and your time? Easy way to "no show" them is not to spend another dime on them.

However before it gets this far, communication is the key, talk to your instructor and try to iron any kinks there are before you go the route mentionned above.

communication is the key,

That is true... I have not shown up for bookings with three students at the other school because their instructors booked me for supervision flights that I did not know about...
I'd get a phone call, "didn't you know?" No I didn't!
So I have had to apologise... But that's a problem with being too busy.

Unfortunately our business has too few qualified and competent people since the airlines sucked up a lot of instructors.
So there's a large demand for my time.

But I can tell you that the number of no shows I have suffered was huge and they screwed up my days too often.
I am known to not go just the extra mile for a student, but more like go the extra 100 miles for the student!
So when I put myself out to help a person and then for some silly reason that person does not show up I get a little annoyed.

The no show business also puts an emotional strain on the instructor.
We'd all prefer to be doing our jobs and we do not want to be unpopular by fining a student in this way.

And now I am old... I can spout out the stuff my elders put to me when I were a lad learning to fly.

For me learning to fly was 50% of my weekly wages for the week's 1 hour of instruction in the Cessna 150.
Getting there was a train ride to Exeter St Davids, and a long walk to Clyst Honington and up to Exeter Airport.
Google Earth it or whatever and measure the distance!
I always showed up early for my flight, I wanted to learn. I never no-showed.

It is perhaps a fault in me, but I would like to see the same dedication in my students.
If you are fit and well, and don't have a legitimate excuse, get out of bed, get to the school, do your lesson, and then do your homework... I don't want lame excuses!
Rain, fog, and the miserable south west of England winter weather did not stop me from turning up... Often not to fly due Wx, but always there to learn.

That's another thing, they cancel due to weather.... Yes it's miserable in BC at times, but sometimes while it is horrible downtown, CZBB is in the clear.
I've spent many a nice day at Boundary Bay while people have cancelled due to the weather forecast, or to what it was doing in the morning in Vancouver!

Here this morning the Sun is shining, temperature in the 20s, but I don't have any students!