Which would you choose??

md · Post by md » Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:24 am

I have two scenarios for doing a float rating/bush course....

1) Super Cub, apprx $160/hr

2) C172, apprx $260/hr

Obviously, the $$ is better with the Super Cub. If you were in the situation of doing a float rating and continuing with a bush course, which one would you pick? Both outfits are in the same location.

Cheers,
DM

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:44 am

It's really a no-brainer...the Super Cub. When all is said and done, and hour is an hour! And some comercial operators actually use the Cubs, while the 172?...well, I've never seen one. Plus the Cub is just a better airplane...on tubs.

c_172pilot · Post by **c_172pilot** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:51 am

I am confused a super cub cheaper than a 172? wow!!! I know the school I did my course at used a 172 for about $160 an hour. A freind of myne has a super cub on floats and it is worth far more than the 172. Insurance is also a lot higher. Where is this place? I would love to go fly a super cub again.

c_172pilot

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:25 pm

Take the Super Cub!!! Float time is Float time!!!

Beaver Driver · Post by **Beaver Driver** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:58 pm

even if the cub was a little more money I would go with that.

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:40 pm

I see two good reasons for the Cub!

1. It is cheaper and that being true, you can get more time on that than if you spent the same amount of cash on the 172.

and 2. there are more jobs out there for cubs than 172s.. so time on type will help..

Good luck

Adanac

cplanedriver · Post by **cplanedriver** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:28 pm

Take the cub. A stick n rudder bird is fun to fly and in the types flown column of the log book PA 18 carries more weight than C172.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:54 pm

Cub = Fun.

Cub on floats= fun+

Like CL guy said, when you are building float time it matters not what you are flying.

Float plane time is float plane time and don't fall for the old B.S that if you fly a 180 or such it will impress a new employer, a 180 is still a small basic floatplane.

Cat

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:22 pm

Put your girl friend in the front seat of that S cub. Get her to hang on tight to the V tubes above the panel, trim the aircraft, then do the reach around. What's she going to do jump?

4930s · Post by **4930s** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:01 pm

I would like to know how many people this guy actually gets who pay $260/hr for a 172, I have a 172 with 180 Hp, full Horton Stol, on 2400 EDO floats, full auto pilot and leather and I charge $200. But hey, if hey is busy, good for him.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:17 am

Doc wrote:It's really a no-brainer...the Super Cub. When all is said and done, and hour is an hour! And some comercial operators actually use the Cubs, while the 172?...well, I've never seen one. Plus the Cub is just a better airplane...on tubs.

An operation out of Ear Falls was using a 172, not sure if they still are. Only one I ever came across.

Take the Cub.

PA31 Driver · Post by **PA31 Driver** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:13 pm

take the cub.................

737captain · Post by **737captain** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:27 pm

It"s like a mini Beaver on floats, lots of fun, definately the Cub.

Unable Due Traffic · Post by **Unable Due Traffic** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:52 pm

Back in the late 70's the Thunder Bay Flying club had a 172 on Aqua 2400's/ leased to Con College . (C-GFVP I think?) The ONLY good thing about learning to fly floats on it was you really had to learn how to find the sweet spot to get it airborne. Otherwise you were just going for a boat ride. Any of you "Old Farts" remember?
Go for the Super cub.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:27 pm

" you really had to learn how to find the sweet spot to get it airborne. "

Which of course is one of the most needed skills in float flying.......

...and of course you can do this with the Cub all you need do is use less power on take off...

Cat

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:05 pm

But how many people will actually practice with reduced power? A cub is a no brainer to fly on floats, where as the 172 will make you a real float pilot.. After a few hours with 2 people and full tanks, a beaver at max seems pretty easy doesn't it?? $260/hr seems pretty high though for a 172, I know of a few that are much cheaper.. If you really want to learn float flying, I'd do a mix of them both to get the best of both worlds..
Cheers

johnwa · Post by **johnwa** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:12 pm

I have a C180 on EDO 2870 floats in the summer. The going rate in the north still is 300.00 per hour (1500.00) for the required 5 hours, now 7 hours. I had to pay it myself back then. I like flying and getting paid for it. If you call (867) 669-9253 we might be able to strike an affordable personal deal, but there will be no total solo flights. John

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:27 pm

but there will be no total solo flights. John

So you're not doing float ratings then?

You say you like flying and getting paid for it, what was the name of your air service again?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:15 pm

" You say you like flying and getting paid for it, what was the name of your air service again? "

He does not need a name for his air service.

As long as he is not contrevening the regulations why would he need a name for an airservice?

Cat

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:42 pm

I must've misunderstood his post. I thought being paid to fly = commercial air service.

Did I miss something?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:24 pm

I think he was offering float training on his own airplane, there is no need for an OC to do that..

..I'm not sure if he is offering float ratings, which would require some creative shuffling to do it legal and for sure he would have to allow solo to meet the present requirements..as stupid as they are.

Cat

spafloats · Post by **spafloats** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:21 pm

Cat`s right!

You can give float training on your own aircraft (private), but you can`t make a profit (split cost recovery only) and the big hoop to jump through is the solo requirement (and you have to have insurance for liability on the plane for the pilot flying the solo take-offs and landings as per the CARS). If they do the solo without liability insurance I would be love to be "a fly on the wall" when T.C. cross checked the jouney log, the solo persons logbook and the insurance documents.

As for the insurance underwriter who would write coverage for this, please forward me his/her name because I want to talk with them now!!

Want to loan your airplane out with no hull insurance on it while the person does the solo? You must be be very good and trusting friends and know the person is very well trained or be independently wealthy and signed a promisary note.

Spafloats

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:15 pm

For the purpose of training for a sea plane rating CAR's outlines several requirements to be legal and for the training to be acceptable to TC.

The normal way it is done is through an FTU. and the FTU will need insurance coverage for solo.

Also you can give a sea plane rating to the owner of an aircraft or to an immediate family member.

Or... You can give training for the rating to several pilots if the airplane is in joint ownership.

Or ...you can give training to pilots if the aircraft is registered to a limited company and the pilot being trained is a director of said company.

However I have found out that TC does not recognize these sections of CAR's and they will refuse to approve the training if in their opinion the person giving the training is operating a full time training business and using these sections of CAR's to avoid going through the process of aquireing a FTU OC..

...I have been told that TC will not approve any training done by me personally because it is obvious to TC Flight training in Vancouver that should I try and use these sections of CAR's it is their opinion that I am deliberately attempting to operate a flight training school without being the owner of an OC.

So I'm basically f.cked as far as doing any sea plane training for the rating because TC will not issue me a FTU OC because they do not want me to have one period.

A couple of years ago I made a deal with a local FTU to train my overseas clients under their OC using their airplane, TC informed my client that they would not recognize any training given by me, and advised my client to go to an approved flight school...they gave my client a list of approved schools and of course I lost the client.

When I went to the Regional Director General and complained that I was being discrimminated against I got a letter of apology and informed that the TC inspector had made a mistake...

...but guess what the owner of the FTU told me that I could no longer fly as an instructor with his school because he was afraid of retalation from TC because he had been indirectly threatened by TC.....in otherwords if I worked for him he was concerned that his company would be targeted by TC and he did not need that in his life.

And guess what within a couple of months another client from Europe was told by TC that there may be problems getting any training done by me because ..quote : "TC had some outstanding issues with me "

I tried to work for another school in this area and was told flat out that his OC was more important to him than having me on his payroll...

So that leaves me working overseas to earn a living flying.

I can of course give dual sea plane training to any licensed pilot who already has the sea plane rating.....but of course not on an airplane owned by me.

My problem of course is not with insurance, it is with the regulator.

Cat

Unable Due Traffic · Post by **Unable Due Traffic** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:34 pm

Cat....

So I can give my wife a float rating on "our" airplane. But I better not start to give ratings to my friends..... or else TC will be knocking at my door? Yikes!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:51 pm

They will not knock on your door they will just not approve your training if they get the idea you are operating a full time business without an OC.

Even though CAR's allow training if you meet certain requirements that does not mean f.ck all to TC if they decide to refuse to accept your training.

I thought the head of flight training was my friend ( I had known him for over twenty five years , and had gotten along great with him when I owned an FTU in the late 80's early 90's. ) when I was having all the problems with M&M, however after there was no hope of getting approval for the FTU OC I found out that he was just like the rest, he could not side with me because of the way their system works.

He is retired now and it would be interesting to know what he does with his life.

I'm sure many posters here would know , he never ever contacted me again after he told me he would not approve any sea plane ratings without me holding an OC....

Cat.