Sunwing Vacations - customer service issue

[Captain S itmagnet]

Writing on behalf of a family member who recently travelled with Sunwing and is getting stonewalled as far as having their questions addressed...

Dates, flight numbers etc are not pertinent for now.

The flight was Winnipeg - Veradero - Santa Clara about a month ago. Passengers were advised that upon arrival in Veradero all must deplane "for the aircraft to be groomed". All deplaned, and shortly after, the plane left empty. Nine hours later, enter a local rep for Sunwing, who claims the flight was required to land at Veradero due to "fog" at Santa Clara. Eventually a marginally roadworthy bus transported the folks to their respective destinations.

These folks are seasoned travellers, and I have no reason to doubt their recollection of the events.
So far they have received a generic letter that basically says "boo hoo such is life, here's a token credit to your next trip with us". These folks are not looking for a free vacation, but some accountability and a logical explanation is definitely in order.

Anybody have any thoughts on "fog" in the Caribbean? Any previous service issues with Sunwing? Was "grooming" a gentle term for "fumigation"? Political reasons?

Thanks all.
CSM

[Hot Fuel]

Endless possibilities of what may have occurred behind the scenes, sounds like they were a little slow on keeping people informed and perhaps not forth right in the reasons but none the less the response of issuing a voucher for future travel is a standard practice for inconvenienced passengers. It sucks sometimes when everything doesn't come off as planned but even with the slow response and the hours of hanging around wondering it sounds like they did the best they could considering where you were. They got you to final destination and offered some form of compensation for your troubles. You said you didn't expect a free trip or anything, what did you have in mind? what do you feel was appropriate compensation? Oh and as far as fog in the Carribean, advection fog may occur when warm, moist air is carried over a surface which is cooler than the dewpoint of the air. Cooling and some turbulence in the lower layer lowers temperature to dewpoint and fog forms. Sea fogs drifting into NSW coastal areas are advection fogs forming when the sea surface temperature is lower than the dewpoint but with a steady breeze to promote air mixing. Dewpoint can be reached both by temperature reduction and by increased water vapor content through evaporation. Advection fogs will form in valleys open to the sea when temperature falls in the evening combined with a sea breeze of 5 to 15 knots to force the air upslope. Thick advection fogs may be persistent in winter, particularly under a mid-level cloud layer.

[BlueStar]

It could be that there was fog. Holguin Cuba often fogs in for hours.

[Highflyinpilot]

As stated above, there must have been a reason for this occurence. I dont think that sunwing would just leave passengers there for the fun of seeing passengers inconvenienced. All in all The pax got to their destinations via bus( just curious, How reliable is the source on the road worthiness of the bus, was this from a truck and coach mechanic?)


Now, had sunwing not offer any compensation or services( bus ride, travel voucher) then it would have been totally diffrent situation. It sucks the big one when something like this happens, but any airline encounters this at some point in time(Air travel is a son of a b&^%# sometimes )


Hopefully in the end your family member had a good time on their vacation.

[Pile-it]

Explains why those guys never come to HYZ! It's the fog...

[CAL]

9 hour wait for a bus with no Sunwing rep to let them know what is going on is not good for repeat business. You especially do not want to leave these people surely almost all Canadian somewhere that is not there home country for that long either without someone to assure them that things are being taken care of. Maybe it made more sense $ to do what they did, but if that means leaving your people hanging around for 9 hours I would question organization.

As for fog....I know it does happen from time to time in the valleys on the bigger islands....not sure about on the coast....but possible behind a large cold front...who knows....

I think you just want to know 'why' you had to wait for 9 hours which most people would....but its likely Sunwing will never tell you because it was their screw up....so maybe you can check historical weather or metars for the day in question....if you have that kinda time:)

[Captain S itmagnet]

a few ps's...

At issue is not dollars for the family member, but a truthful explabation. The flight crew says"grooming", the rep says "fog". I myself would take the truth over dollars any day if they wanted my business again.

The first bus sent wouldn't start. The second apparently had the appearance of being used and abused. Yes the traveller in question is meachanically qualified to make that observation.

If it is "fog" then say "fog", "below landing limits" etc.

There were minimal facilities at the airport at the time of arrival. Leaving people, including families with young kids, in a foreign (Communist) state and a nine-hour gap before a local rep can arrive is inexcusable.

Thanks for the answers so far.

[winger]

We flew on the flight after that one. The counter staff was late. There were 100 people in line at YWG before anyone showed up. We were then given the same line about fog in Cuba and that the plane would be 7 hours late. I checked the METARS for Holguin, Veradero and Santa Clara and there was no fog whatsoever. When the plane arrived, a seat would not go upright and they just about cancelled the flight over it until a passenger offered to give up his seat. Same story on the way back. We were delayed 4 hours in the hotel and then found out at the airport it would be another 5 hours. No explanation from anyone. I finally asked a FA on the aircraft what the delay was and she said a snow storm in YYZ 3 days earlier. Their flight crews were great but everyone else was unprofessional, uninformed and totally disorganized. I'll never fly with them again and I caution anyone who is thinking about it to do a quick internet search about their customer service. Next time It'll be Westjet.

[Hot Fuel]

I'm not excusing the response but it is a response that is not uncommon once you leave the nice controlled confines of a modern airport that has all the comforts, and accountable staff we have become accustomed to. Services and employees not under the direct control of the airline often are not up to the standards expected of the North American vacationer. Communication can often be sketchy and no doubt the wages some of the local "CSR's" are paid factor into how they are are going to perform in a situation that they have no control over. I'd guess the last thing they want to do is put themselves into the middle of a mob that make 50 times more money than they do with little authority or direction from the carrier.

I don't think its too far of a stretch to speculate that the final destination was below limits due to fog and a forecast that was indicating no improvement. Tour companies schedule aircraft tight, meaning it had probably had other places to be to keep the big picture moving. Would it have been nice if somebody actually gathered the inconvenienced passengers and made an announcement saying that the destination was fogged flat and they were working on a plan to transport you by ground? Yes. If they had also stated during the announcement that the aircraft sitting at the gate was going to depart because it needed to be elsewhere and if they stayed where they were until the fog lifted they would be 6 hours late for the next group of vacationers that had booked with them from some other departure point. Would you have smiled and accepted that? The reality is that most vacationers can't handle the truth, they have unrealistic expectations of what can or should be done, and as I have already suggested customers service in foreign lands often does not meet with what we expect. Just because its a big jet and you get great smiling service out of Winnipeg it doesn't always mean you will get the same level of service when the wheels fall off in a local where the carrier has to contract staff and play by the local rules.

[Captain S itmagnet]

yet another ps...

the traveller in question has back issues, maybe reason enough not to travel "Y" or the charter equivalent, but he did pay for and receive a certain requested seat. Upon boarding, the seat was occupied by a large intimidating-looking male. The FA's were not willing to ask this man to move.

[bob sacamano]

We flew on the flight after that one. The counter staff was late. There were 100 people in line at YWG before anyone showed up. We were then given the same line about fog in Cuba and that the plane would be 7 hours late. I checked the METARS for Holguin, Veradero and Santa Clara and there was no fog whatsoever. When the plane arrived, a seat would not go upright and they just about cancelled the flight over it until a passenger offered to give up his seat. Same story on the way back. We were delayed 4 hours in the hotel and then found out at the airport it would be another 5 hours. No explanation from anyone. I finally asked a FA on the aircraft what the delay was and she said a snow storm in YYZ 3 days earlier. Their flight crews were great but everyone else was unprofessional, uninformed and totally disorganized. I'll never fly with them again and I caution anyone who is thinking about it to do a quick internet search about their customer service. Next time It'll be Westjet.

Your counter staff isn't exactly what I would call the friendliest

[mantogasrsrwy]

I've flown into Santa Clara a few times and as I recall it's a pretty basic NDB approach with no DME so the minimums are relatively high. I can't imagine Sunwing ditching you in Varadero just to get back on schedule but I guess stranger things have happened.

[deflux]

edit

[WING IT]

I work for Sunwing, and as far as I am concerned we have excellent customer service. It’s too bad you had a bad experience, but Sunwing does pride itself in providing a service that is above and beyond what other companies provide. Sunwing is the best company I have ever worked for and we always go out of our way to please our passengers, but sometimes events do happen that are not in any companies control, such as weather. Under the circumstances your friends experience wouldn't be any different with any other travel company as they all use the same companies for counter staff, bagage handling, resorts and Coach Service’s. Sunwing also doesn't have a policy of flying empty airplanes.

[CAL]

wish i had an 800...........

[.......]

Under the circumstances your friends experience wouldn't be any different with any other travel company as they all use the same companies for counter staff, bagage handling, resorts and Coach Service’s. Sunwing also doesn't have a policy of flying empty airplanes.

Not so sure about that WING IT....

That's dropping the ball on the locals... The operating flight crew should have been straightforward and had the nerve to confront the passengers in the form of a PA, to let them know the truth. You can't runaway like that and hope that it will all be forgotten. If it's the way it happened, Sunwing is lucky that's it's not all over the news.

[Highflyinpilot]

i dont work for sunwing, never have. I must say im surprised that many people have had so many problems with them, I have never ever had one single issue with them, not even a minor detail. I'm actually really happy to have them for my vacationing needs.

For domestic flying i try to stick with westjet but for out of country vacation purposes, I always try to stick with sunwing.

its funny how some of you say "Ive taken them to court" "Their lucky their not o nthe news for this" etc. etc
Let us aviation folk bury another airline in the ground and have more of our pilots become unemployed and on EI.

Obviously if it was a everyday occurence like the one stated above then i would understand but i must say i know lots of peo[ple who have used them inluding myself, and i've yet to hear any complaints from them until now, hence im a bit surprised at how many people have had problems with them.



P.S again I dont work for them, im not a rep for them or anything.

[deflux]

For the record, I took the tour operator to court, not the airline. The flight in the package was operated by Skyservice.

Nothing wrong with the flight, major false advertising in the brochure. Sunwing didn't even want to listen to the issues, so I got all my money back in court.

[Hot Fuel]

The operating flight crew should have been straightforward and had the nerve to confront the passengers in the form of a PA, to let them know the truth.

Thats a laugh, you expect the crew to climb out of cockpit, grab the PA and start playing company rep at the counter. They might as well groom the aircraft, check the oil and wash the windscreen while there are at it. Some of you guys have to get out in the world and realize things can be ummmm different in other parts of the world. Even AC, BA and a host of other majors lose the level of service they would like to see when they start operating into places off the beaten path. Ever tried sitting behind your desk in YYZ and try to tell your "local rep" how to handle the problem and give him directions on what you want them to do? Sometimes their culture gets in the way and what you are telling them to do doesn't match with what they are comfortable doing...instead they say nothing and simply wait for the bus to arrive. Not all that different from operating in the north with local agents, you get some good, some bad. Again it may seem like I'm justifying it, I'm not...just trying to open a few peoples eyes, standards vary around the world. The problem as I see it is that we hold everybody else to our standards when sometimes those expectations simply won't fit.

[mantogasrsrwy]

Thats a laugh, you expect the crew to climb out of cockpit, grab the PA and start playing company rep at the counter.

I'm not slagging Sunwing as I have flown on them before and have been quite pleased, but at my airline the pilots have been known to address the passengers at the counter when things have gone to shit. It's certainly not beneath anyone I work with.

[Hot Fuel]

I wasn't suggesting its beneath anybody to assist a passenger, however theres a time, a place, and the appropriate circumstances. In many cases the carrier is simply the vehicle to move sun seekers from A too B, the aircraft has been charted by the tour company. If you grab the PA and attempt to calm the masses you are speaking for the tour operator. They have there own policies and procedures that may differ from your particular airline. You would find yourself in the game with only half the cards. I envision it playing out something like this...

Attention ladies and gentlemen...your final destination is 0/0 due to fog and it is not forecast to lift for several hours, my little Cuban friend here tells me the tour operator has not given him any direction yet as to what to do. Since I'm the captain I thought it best I grab this here microphone and let you know what going on. Ummmmm I don't really know whats going on. I work for Airline XYZ not Sunwing, those are the people that you paid for this trip and well indirectly they pay me cause they charted my companies aircraft. What I do know is that my Ops center says I have to depart and deadhead back to Canada as soon as I have refueled cause any additional delays will really screw things up further down the road. We will encounter aircraft rotation problems, crew rest issues, gate and slot time problems. A ton of things you don't really understand or care about. What I can say is thank you for choosing to fly with us, I'm sure somebody will make some decisions at some point and will be able to be a little more informative than me. Once again thank you for choosing to fly with us...I have to go now I see the fueler has finished.

[whipline]

Double stop cuba from YWG.

Usually the first stop is where the aircraft is groomed and all the pax get off and clear customs. Yes there is fog in Cuba, more so in late winter early spring during the night and early morning. I'd say both reason's would be plausible. The crew would not have much duty day to sit in VRA and wait out the weather so the options would be to sit in VRA and duty out stranding everyone including the crew and airplane or leaving and going back to ywg. If it was the first flight out of the year, meaning the airplane would have been empty out of Santa Clara the decision would be a no brainer. If that airplane was needed in ywg for the next day I would also say the decision would be a no brainer.

There would be no way that the crew would know what was going on in the pax lounge nor should they. In order for the Captain or First Officer to make a PA they would also have to go through customs and security, if the weather was bad and their duty day was an issue that would never happen.

The unplanned weather was most likely the root cause. Buses are not waiting empty at an airport in the off chance that a flight on a double stop might need their services and I'm sure it would take a long time to find one in Cuba. Anyone who has vacationed in Cuba know's the roads are not in very good shape anywhere.

Sitting around an airport for nine hours with no rep is hard to believe. I would suspect most of the pax were getting off in VRA meaning sunwing reps should have been there and any plausible answer eludes me. If your friends got a free trip due to mother nature culminating in a long wait and a bus ride I would say they were lucky.

What answer are they looking for?

[Captain S itmagnet]

Whipline wrote:

"What answer are they looking for?"

Something along the lines of your possible scenario would have been a start. While mistakes happen in our racket all the time, there is no excuse for deception or subterfuge, whether in tentional or not.

I have bever been to Cuba, but as a state crawling out from the apronstrings of Mother Russia and the failed Communist experiment, I doubt that communication between Sunwing, their a/c and the capitalist vacationers is not up to what we would expect here in Canada. I will go out on a limb and guess that ACARS is few and far between. However, if wx can be relayed to YWG or an a/c in flight to/from the worker's paradise, then surely the telephones and p.a.'s work in the airport. I'm sure a jury-rigged telex machine capable of giving eta's from YWG sits in the corner of the airport manager's office. ATC knows who is coming and going. The base must have a VHF radio to contact the aircraft.

My own take is that the importance of timely communication is a new concept in places like Cuba, and if it involves a foreign entity, like a Canadian carrier, there will be some folks unclear of the need to be accountable and responsible left to deal with irrops.

I will give the benefit of the doubt to the crew, who likely told the local reps the plan to bypass Santa Clara due to any of the following: duty time, mechanical issue, weather below limits, etc. and ferried the plane back to YWG as per direction from their employers commercial managers. I am guessing that this information was not relayed or the importance of it understood by the local airport staff.

The family member has receieved so far a form letter stating to the effect that "this happens" and here's a $100 credit to your next travel on Sunwing. I would myself trade that $100 for a truthful responsible answer, but that's just me.

CSM

[Czar]

Captain S itmagnet,
I must veer off topic a little.

Your view about Cuba, "Mother Russia", Communist countries is dumbfounding. I realize that your family member had a bad experience with Sunwing. However, sometimes there's only so much that can be done under the circumstances and Sunwing did its best.
But, back to my original comment. Next time you get a chance to go on vacation, I suggest you take Sunwing to Cuba. You'll get an affordable vacation while experiencing Sunwing's service first hand. Most importantly, you'll learn that your views on communist Cuba are a bit unenlightened.

[ea306]

For what it is worth. Any time I am faced with a long delay.... I get out of the flight deck and make a PA for my passengers. It helps them to understand what is going on and that we are doing what we can to keep them informed. I do this so I can look at them in the eye and they know they are being told the facts as they are. The added benefit is it also keeps some of the pressure off of our cabin crew. This is something I have done throughout my career and I continue to do also here at Sun Wing. I might add that the company directs us to keep our passengers informed when dealing with IROP situations.

I am sorry to hear of your bad experience. I know things happen at every airline I have ever worked for. All I can say is that we generally fly full most of the time and all I ever see at the end of the flight are smiling happy customers leaving the airplane. Even when things do not go to plan people seem to recognize the crew do their best to work with the circumstances they find themselves in.

I sincerely hope you will have a better experience flying with us next time.