To Cdn Instructors and those in the know:

Student Billy-bob goes to Moosehead Flying School near Regina and takes his p.s.t.a.r. examination and gets marked wrong on a few questions. Meanwhile, student Tiffany goes to Cosmo's Aviation Academy outside of Toronto takes her exam and gets a few questions wrong. Tiffany calls her Saskatchewan chum, Billy-bob, on the weekend and they discover that Tiffany's school marked her wrong for giving the same answers that Billy-bob was marked correct for! And Billy-bob lost marks for providing the same answers to questions that Tiffany received full marks on!

Tiffany and Billy-bob call their buddies in Halifax, Yellowknife and Victoria, to find that their schools also differed on several of the multiple choice exam questions. To add to the cluster, the radio exams each one of them took were completely different: from how the test was administered, to the amount of questions on the exam.

They begin to wonder why the regulating bodies of the tests don't require them to even out the playing field ie for the answers to be the same and for the manner of testing to be the same, all across the land. And do some schools place more emphasis on written tests than others? If TC doesnt care, why can't the schools have free rein to make up their own tests, and if they do care, why wouldnt they ensure all schools have the same answers and ensure all tests are given in a more uniform way?

Would anyone out there be able to help solve this mystery?

I have the answer: Colonel Mustard did it with a 13 inch Kielbasa in the Library to Polly Plumfeld.

But seriously folks: am I given to understand that you honestly have your knickers in a twist about your fricken radio exam?

Wait 'till you're cleaning toilets, working the ramp in buttefork, Manitoba. Then you can get back to us again about the cosmic injustices in your life.

You're quite young, aren't you?

To answer your question on the pstar. The CFI of the ftu makes up the 50 questions required from a formula that TC provides. The CFI chooses a set number of questions from each section of Air Law. So depending on their situation, ie location, type of airport, services available they can slant the pstar to reflect the particular type of flying that is done there. Keeping in mind that the student will be taught the entire Air Law and will have to demonstrate their knowledge when writing TC PPL exams and during the oral of their flight test. Also, I believe, that the ftu will need to have 3 pstars made up and on file, so if a student doesn't pass one, they will not be able to pass the next pstar solely be memorizing the question (as they do in the states for their written exams). And it also prevents them from passing questions to other student when they might not be getting that same test.

As to the radio test, the test, I think, is already set by Industry Canada and is therefore standardized.

There's no mystery at all. I've broken it down into two parts: PSTAR exam, and Radio Exam.

PSTAR

The 50 multiple choice questions on the PSTAR exam are chosen from a bank of 200 possible questions, found in a guide, readily available to everybody on the TC sites, and hopefully all flight schools. The link to it is:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... p11919.pdf

Although the guide contains no answers, and there are no published answers, there is a reference to the CARs or AIP for each question. That means you can look up what the answer should be.

Hopefully, when the instructor corrects the exam, he/she does as he should and "correct the exam to 100%". That means that the instructor is supposed to go over each question you got wrong, and explain why it was wrong, and what is the correct answer, and why it is correct. Hopefully your hypothetical student actually looked up the reference to find out if it was true.

It could very well be, that the exam was marked incorrectly, (school, instructor screw up, it happens) but the student should be convinced about the reason why it was wrong. If not, theres a problem.

Radio Exam

I agree that the process to getting a radio licence is somewhat screwed up. Industry Canada's Spectrum branch that deals with these licences don't really seem to understand themselves the process, or much about the licences in general.

The Examiners are suppose to issue the licence (they issue temporary, and send in application for permanent one) once they are satisfied to know the material contained in the RIC-21 guide:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet ... /ric21.pdf

There is little direction, however, on how to accomplish this. It can be done via written answers, short answer or multiple choice, or oral questions, and the questions are made up by the examiner. It can be 1 question, or 100, the pass mark can be whatever the examiner decides it to be. I don't blame examiners for these problems, but Industry Canada itself. I have some interesting stories about dealing with them.

But luckily, the material is extremely simple to learn, and you're not supposed to be tested on anything more than what's inthe guide I linked to above. So quite frankly, I'm not sure if it's a battle worth picking. It might only make things worse.

Well, hope that helps with your mystery...

Heaven forbid that any student could memorize the correct answer to a question.

Just imagine how dangerous they would be to the industry because the knew the correct answer.

hz2pea,
No knickers are not knotted, going commando these days.
Wondering however if test thing is the shape of things to come.

What makes you think I'm very young....wishful thinking?
Love ya,
Rocky

what the real mystery is ..
is what a hot little squeak like Tiffany is doing associating with my idiot cousin Billy - Bob?

Roadkill Rocky wrote:hz2pea,
No knickers are not knotted, going commando these days.

Oh, you must be an instructor then! I can't afford the luxury of knickers either!

To Right Seat Captain and to High Flyer:
Thanks for your responses, but it doesn't get to the jist of where the confusion is-- Why does the answers to the same questions differ from school to school? Ipso facto if logic is to follow reason, TC could give out the answers to the bank of questions it supplies so why dont they...so that ALL of the FTU's have it right ( if not "right" then consistent?)



BTW:
HZ2pea and B.B. Lint: thanks, but you're useless
To Catdiver, you're funny

Answer the 'Jist,'

The problem is that Instructors have to find the answers themselfs. Not all instructors know these answers (I even know a perticularly gifted class 1 who wouldn't even know where to look)...and...in typical TC style, not all the questions are straight forward. There are a few questions on the exam that could have two correct answers depending on how you read the question and wish to interprate the CARS for that question. But I go through the exam with all my students and allow them to defend their answers, if they can, I have the power to grant them marks.

WHY DONT THEY HAVE AN ANSWER KEY?????

Transport is just as F$%^ing dumb.


P.S. Ive never had a problem with the radio exam before, so I cant shed any light.

To Rocky,,,,

OOOOH you guys make me so mad

I shall blast you with my space module

Never ask for answers to rhetorical questions.. come on sonny, how long has this been going on? Have you lost your brain? What's up wit dat?

1) Never ever question TC ever. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth. Learn this before you set another foot into ground school
2) Do not add " . ." to my name, it hurts my feelings. And its "driver" , not "diver ".
3) Thanks, I am useless just ask my last three girlfriends AND my mom.

The PSTAR is a joke, I can't belive some people fail it. You know the questions in advance, find the answers and memorize them. Make sure you can quote the CAR's or AIP should any "conclict" arise with your instructor . Some FTU's even give their students the answers. If a Flight Instructor can't figure out the answers to the PSTAR, I would not want to fly with him/her. As far as the ROC, there is no standard to that. Mine was first section multiple choice, second part was long answer. 70% pass mark, not a big deal.

T01

" Make sure you can quote the CAR's "

Surely you are joking?

I doubt there would be a living creature on earth with the ability to quote the CAR's and even if such a creature existed it would not be able to understand CAR's.

Cat

Yeah that's true Cat. Okay then use common sense to argue the questions you "got wrong". There is a good chance you know more than your Class 4 Instructor anyway...

T01

Well, can't really help you there (ie I can't explain TC's reasoning for no answerkey). But I can provide this:

http://fly.wabyn.net/FlightTraining/PST ... RIndex.htm

It is an "improved PSTAR Study Guide". It was made by an instructor somewhere out west. Click on the subject you're interested in, you'll see each possible question for that section in the PSTAR. The answer is in bold. If you click on the answer number, it links to where the resoning behind why each possible answer is either wrong or right.

I also agree with Nordo. If the student can explain why they thought what they answered is correct, and I agree that what they are thinking is actually correct, I'll give them the mark. Test marks are useless. If you can actually confirm that the studenthas the knowledge, and actually thinks about it, rather than spitting out memorized answers, then they deserve to pass. If someone tells me they're right because that's the answer they memorized, then whether they are right or wrong, they don't have the knowledge needed to pass the idea behind the exam.

I think I'm getting this now.
The questions are mandatory the answers are arbitrary. (or how ever you spell it.)
So TC and all their Cars and AIP and tests etc are B.S. 'y .
By the way it sounds, they seem to be like any other branch of the Can. govt then: fisheries, forestry, justice, indian affairs, customs excise, immigration etc.

But dont they work for us, like we are paying their way, so why dont they act in our best interest? Wow, this is pretty sucky. I ask again, so is this a taste of things to come for those in aviation?

BTW:
Mr bb lint you aren't useless, I get it now, youre funny too.
but HS2p is still useless.



.

hz2p wrote: Wait 'till you're cleaning toilets, working the ramp in buttefork, Manitoba. Then you can get back to us again about the cosmic injustices in your life.

Ah, god that's funny. Up until the manitoba part, I thought we've had the same jobs, although I'd be willing to bet that the rotten Pickle here in Ontario is just as bad! Very well said my friend!

What no answer key for the Pstar?
I have three transport issued answer keys for the three transport issued Pstars in my filing cabinet.
the problem may be that when transport re issued the answer key, which they did about three months before the exams were re-issued, Some people continued to use the old exam with the new answer key. Most of the questions were the same but some have different answers. Of couse very few people asked if the new key was actually for the old exam.
Also there is an answer key to the for the study guide. It is provided to the Flight training units but is not to be released to students on the premise of making them look up the answer.
As for Radio exams it is what ever method the the examiner feels proves that the candidate is proficent in operating the radio.
I do agree that the whole process is a bit of a cluster anyway

Bobcat :

" Most of the questions were the same but some had different answers"

Why?

Cat

I have full answer key for the transport ref guide ... PM me with email or MSN and I'll send it to you

Cat Driver
Some of the answers that transport had on the old pstar answer key were out right wrong. So the new key was to fix that problem and bring the answers in line with changes in the cars. I guess they change the rules faster than their own people can update the mateial they provide to the training industry. So if you were using an old answer key jimmy get one answer while the jannie with the new key gets a different answer for the same question. mainly because one of them wasnt right to start with.
Many people have never questioned the keys or the answers they provide but every now and then you have to sit down and make sure the stuff transport gives you is still current.
when the PSTAR was created transport also gave everyone the authority to creat their own exam. the problem was that everyone interpretation of the cars was a little different. Some school still use their own exams and this can cause problems as well.

BC

One of the reasons I no longer have any desire to be involved in flight training at that level is because the system is mired in bureaucratic missmanagement..

Cat

You wont get any arguments from me there!