Automakers ask Ottawa to consider raising gas prices

[Widow]

Automakers ask Ottawa to consider raising gas prices
In order to help curb greenhouse-gas emissions
Nicolas Van Praet, Financial Post
Published: Wednesday, April 16, 2008

Automakers are calling on Ottawa to look at raising the price of gasoline as a way to cut emissions.

The request is contained in a brief submitted to Transport Canada in March as part of the federal government's consultations on proposed national fuel-consumption rules for motor vehicles. It comes as Canadian drivers face near-record prices at the pumps and oil and gasoline futures trade at levels never before seen.

"While not advocating for an increase in the cost of fuel, this option must be considered as part of the government's comprehensive cost-benefit analysis to effectively reduce [greenhouse gas] emissions at the lowest possible economic cost," says the position paper, prepared jointly by the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers of Canada and the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association. The trade groups together represent all the major automakers selling and making vehicles in Canada, including General Motors Corp., Chrysler LLC, Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co.

In its submission, the industry groups argue that Canada's auto industry is prepared to accept more stringent mandatory fuel-economy standards for new vehicles. It wants Canada and the United States to work toward one continent-wide standard, based on the new fleet-wide average mileage target of 35 miles-per-gallon (6.72 litres per 100 km) by 2020 enacted by U.S. lawmakers last December.

But the groups argue that regulations that address only technology are "not the most efficient approach" to reducing energy consumption and greenhouse-gas emissions.

"A comprehensive plan is needed," their brief states, one that includes other measures such as boosting driver awareness. "Increased fuel efficiency alone will not achieve the objectives unless it is part of a truly effective plan to reduce GHG emissions."

The industry groups cite a 2003 study by the U.S. Congressional Budget Office that concluded that over the first 14 years after implementation, a gasoline tax would save 42% more gasoline than raising mileage standards for new vehicles.

They also cite a 2001 study by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. Among its findings: "There is a market inconsistency between pressing automotive manufacturers for improved fuel economy from new vehicles on the one hand, and insisting on low real gasoline prices on the other. Higher real prices for gasoline - for instance through gasoline taxes - would create both a demand for fuel-efficient new vehicles and an incentive for owners of existing vehicles to drive them less."

The arguments are not new. Analysts have long said that if Canadian politicians were serious about reducing emissions from cars and trucks, they would take the unpopular step of hiking gas taxes, which now represent about 40% to 50% of what drivers pay at the pump.

But they've taken on new urgency amid record high oil and gasoline prices.

In the United States, average national pump prices rose US1.3¢ yesterday to a new record of US$3.399 a gallon for unleaded gasoline and US$4.129 for diesel, according to a survey by the American Automobile Association.

In Canada, the average price of regular gas is now $1.185 per litre, according to the latest weekly pump price survey by MJ Ervin & Associates in Calgary. The only time is has ever been higher was in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in September, 2005, when the storm's damage to oil platforms and refineries on the Gulf of Mexico pushed up the nationwide average price to $1.26.

Ottawa is expected to have final regulations on vehicle fuel economy ready by the end of the year.

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=450456

[Changes in Latitudes]

That is corporate responsibility at its finest.

"Dear Ottawa, we don't like making fuel effient cars, it too hard for us and we gots a Wii now at the plant that we'd rather play, can you bone our customers FOR us now? We been makin' crappy fuel inefficient cars and financing to bone them up the bum for years, now you try, its fun. Kthnxbye, auto people."

[Mr. North]

Wow what an article! Did I really just read that garbage?!

[the government] would take the unpopular step of hiking gas taxes, which now represent about 40% to 50% of what drivers pay at the pump.

Unpopular?! That there is the very definition of political suicide! Personnally I can't think of a better way to induce a recession in this country.

Oh and I bet they'll want the government to bail out GM with all those taxes they collect. Why don't they just stop making SHITTY CARS?!

[WJflyer]

Wow what an article! Did I really just read that garbage?!

[the government] would take the unpopular step of hiking gas taxes, which now represent about 40% to 50% of what drivers pay at the pump.

Unpopular?! That there is the very definition of political suicide! Personnally I can't think of a better way to induce a recession in this country.

Oh and I bet they'll want the government to bail out GM with all those taxes they collect. Why don't they just stop making SHITTY CARS?!

If you think about it, it is a fairly logical way to reduce demand on gas, and increase sales of vehicles that are more efficient. Economic or monetary incentives always seem to work to get the public to do something rather than appealing to someone's conscience or making political appeals...

[North Shore]

I've never quite understood the claim that higher gas prices would bring about a recession. Surely, for people who depend upon petroleum for business purposes, the cost of that fuel is tax-deductible, and costs beyond that would be passed on to customers? And, as mentioned above, fuel prices in Europe have been double that of North America for at least 30 years, and Europe seems to me to be ticking along fine..

[Mr. North]

Europe ticks along fine because one doesn't have to drive to get a quart of milk from the corner store. In Europe the automobile is not the cornerstone of transportation like it is here in NA.

Higher gas prices burden the consumer with a higher cost of living. As a result consumer spending power is reduced proportionally which in turn affects nearly every industry across the board. Keeping in mind the financial nose dive our southern neighbor is taking and our own tenuous siltation, I don't think it's the smartest idea out there.

If they really wanted to promote fuel-sippers, they'd increase the "SUV" tax which is a paltry 4 grand max. That being said I think don't think the big car makers are pumping out enough hybrids in terms of numbers and selection. I think it's pretty evident that the demand is there, yet hybrids still only occupy a small corner of the dealer's lot.

[2R]

If you can afford to drive a sixty thousand dollar vehicle of the dealer lot .Where you will lose at least twenty percent of that vehicles worth just by driving it off the lot in one day .You should be able to afford the gas for the first year without crying about it .
If they doubled the price of gas people would still be driving those monster sized trucks to go and get milk and beer.One guy was complaining about the price to fill his Lincon truck costing him 150 dollars .I smiled and told him mopeds get over seventy miles per gallon .Gas is still cheap considering what a bottle of water cost.

If they were really serious about global warming they would limit farm vehicles to the farm .


End global whinning

[1000 HP]

It's strange that my 1960 GM pickup with the 261, three on the tree, torsion bar front, and short box, got about the same mpg (yep) as my 2005 TJ. Course the engines and the shape are about the same. It would be interesting to see how many mpg the Jeep could get if it was built mechanically the same but with no pollution stuff on it. I've been planning on picking up an econo-box in the 60 mpg range for a few years now. My dad's '91 diesel golf got around that. I'll be buying used though, gotta recycle.

On the down side, I'll still be keeping the Jeep for the weekends. How long before one of these government guys outlaws the inline 6?

[goates]

Europe ticks along fine because one doesn't have to drive to get a quart of milk from the corner store. In Europe the automobile is not the cornerstone of transportation like it is here in NA.

Higher gas prices burden the consumer with a higher cost of living. As a result consumer spending power is reduced proportionally which in turn affects nearly every industry across the board. Keeping in mind the financial nose dive our southern neighbor is taking and our own tenuous siltation, I don't think it's the smartest idea out there.

If they really wanted to promote fuel-sippers, they'd increase the "SUV" tax which is a paltry 4 grand max. That being said I think don't think the big car makers are pumping out enough hybrids in terms of numbers and selection. I think it's pretty evident that the demand is there, yet hybrids still only occupy a small corner of the dealer's lot.

Not to mention the people hit hardest are those on a lower income. The rest can skip out on an extra latte or two, but the people on the low end don't have much they can cut back on. Just think how many pilots would have to choose between keeping their motorbike or their car...

I don't know that hybrids are the best answer either. They aren't cheaper in many cases and you have a battery full of fun chemicals to dispose of every 5 years or so. Building more cars that have the fuel economy of a Civic would be cheaper and better until we can find a complete replacement for the combustion engine.

[WJflyer]

If you can afford to drive a sixty thousand dollar vehicle of the dealer lot .Where you will lose at least twenty percent of that vehicles worth just by driving it off the lot in one day .You should be able to afford the gas for the first year without crying about it .
If they doubled the price of gas people would still be driving those monster sized trucks to go and get milk and beer.One guy was complaining about the price to fill his Lincon truck costing him 150 dollars .I smiled and told him mopeds get over seventy miles per gallon .Gas is still cheap considering what a bottle of water cost.

If they were really serious about global warming they would limit farm vehicles to the farm .


End global whinning

I am thinking increase the gas tax, but at the same time, increase tax deductions for fuel efficient vehicles, and offer more government rebates for purchasing fuel efficient vehicles, like reducing the sales tax from 5% to 1% for the most fuel efficient and alternative energy vehicles, and increasing the ecoAUTO rebate from $1000-2000 dollars to $4000-5000 dollars.

[Wacko]

If you can afford to drive a sixty thousand dollar vehicle of the dealer lot .Where you will lose at least twenty percent of that vehicles worth just by driving it off the lot in one day .You should be able to afford the gas for the first year without crying about it .
If they doubled the price of gas people would still be driving those monster sized trucks to go and get milk and beer.One guy was complaining about the price to fill his Lincon truck costing him 150 dollars .I smiled and told him mopeds get over seventy miles per gallon .Gas is still cheap considering what a bottle of water cost.

If they were really serious about global warming they would limit farm vehicles to the farm .


End global whinning

I am thinking increase the gas tax, but at the same time, increase tax deductions for fuel efficient vehicles, and offer more government rebates for purchasing fuel efficient vehicles, like reducing the sales tax from 5% to 1% for the most fuel efficient and alternative energy vehicles, and increasing the ecoAUTO rebate from $1000-2000 dollars to $4000-5000 dollars.

So... I drive a 1993 vehicle (not by choice) because I paid 1500 for it. Now I get to pay more for fuel so the guys who CAN afford a new car get a rebate?

Doesn't BC have a mandatory road worthy check that you have to do every year? I bet you a good percentage of vehicles that don't pass the test in BC end up in Alberta.

Also, they should make you pay for owning a car that is considered environmentally unfriendly. There are MANY people in Calgary who drive V8's - V12's to/from work. We have roads that are probably some of the best in the country! There is no justification for this. Increasing fuel taxes only hurts the little guy. Those who drive those big vehicles are also the ones who are able to write off the expense.

GM should be shot for killing the EV1. The next thing they are trying to ram down out throats is the Hydrogen cars. This is a horrible idea that will take over from oil... you have to keep those pumps working somehow!

[Go Guns]

Perhaps the auto industry could make a hybrid that didn't cost 50 grand or better??

or perhaps this is their way to increase the sales of their outrageously priced hybrids.

Either way, like was said earlier, raising the gas tax = political suicide. Can't see it happening.

[timbob]

not sure what u are saying re farm vehickles, my F250 can't be ran on red fuel yet its got a farm plate, rairly leaves the property....

"If they were really serious about global warming they would limit farm vehicles to the farm ."
but if its on farm business..then y not?

[pilotbzh]

I used to drive a "super cinq" from renault strait diesel no turbo, 5L/100KM the VW golf was known to be nicer but not as fuel efficient that was 15 years ago, and numbers haven't really changed....I agree, fuel taxes won't change anything, a surcharge for big vehicle is better and credit for efficient car is great.
You could also credit driver that park an hold car for good (VIN can't be re-registered anywhere) in exchange for a credit on a new fuel efficient car, take your hold caddy for scrap and the government give you cash towards the purchase of a new fuel efficient Yaris.....

Lots of options for the government ..... But you know who's Harper working for.... (anybody but you)


Lobbying by a company IS a form of corruption.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

But you know who's Harper working for....

Harper?

[Dust Devil]

How about leave everything as is instead of inventing problems to mask a wealth distribution plan and additional avenues for the government to take our hard earned cash out of our pockets. As with the gun thread the only people who want to see rid of bigger vehicles are people who drive small ones. Why do people always want to control what the other guy is doing. My cousin's husband actually had a guy yell and scream at him in Calgary last month because he was driving a 1 ton pickup. Surprise surprise but hippy boy was cruising in a civic.

[BoostedNihilist]

Doesn't BC have a mandatory road worthy check that you have to do every year? I bet you a good percentage of vehicles that don't pass the test in BC end up in Alberta.

GVRD has an emissions test... Im sure if your shitbox was shitboxy enough they would give you an order of inspection but the annual isn't a road worthiness test.

No, the vehicles that don't 'pass' the test are taken out of the system and sold to upper level ICBC execs for pennies on the dollar

[2R]

Why yell ???Yelling only proves you are incapable of civilized debate. Or a sign that you are deaf I like to whisper when people are yelling .It forces them to lean in to listen and makes it easier to knock them down with one punch


We could all be driving TaTa's in ten years . Cruising in a tata would be ironic as a tata is Paris french slang for a poof or male prostitute.Truly a double entend,and a pile up on the 401 would have an entirely different meaning
I had friend who lived in fear of being rear-ended by a ford probe incase he ended up with a tauraus (toreass) I look forward to hearing his TATA jokes

[Wacko]

GVRD has an emissions test... Im sure if your shitbox was shitboxy enough they would give you an order of inspection but the annual isn't a road worthiness test.

No, the vehicles that don't 'pass' the test are taken out of the system and sold to upper level ICBC execs for pennies on the dollar

Emission tests should be mandatory across Canada and the US. It's weird... I've been in Vancouver 3 or 4 times so maybe I just wasn't really lucky but I never saw a vehicle spewing black/gray smoke out of the exhaust.... come to think of it.. I don't even remember seeing a car pre 90's... In Calgary you can still see 1960's boats on the road... *shrug*

Come to think of it... THAT is how they should impose a levy. I'm sure the bigger the engine the more exhaust it spits out... do a yearly emissions test and have the owners pay a levy based on those emissions. It would probably take some of those oil burning vehicles (like my) off the road too.

[BoostedNihilist]

Wacko

Emission tests should be mandatory across Canada and the US.

Shame on you

If that happens I will have to put the cat back into my car, and that would be highly un-cool. Down with the man, at whatever I pay for gas these days I'm gonna damn well enjoy it! My four cylinders of pure madness is *NOT* going to kill us all.

Besides, personally, living in BC and dealing with these hosebags, I can't advocate setting up a chain of mandatory money grabs to add to their collection of other highly lucrative rackets.

Besides we want the gas prices to stay low so I can go to Egypt for $1800 return.

[Over the Horn]

Simple plan raise insurance rates for SUV's / trucks for to and from work purposes in the major city's or outrite ban them for comuters, radical? maybe, but it would cut emissions and still allow us northerners to drive our 4wd's (we do have 6-8 months of snow up here depending how far north you go and would never think of calling the Army to dig us out) and not get punished for the sins of the yuppie To. / Van. comuters

[. ._]

Raising gas prices would definitely lower our oil consumption. This is true.

If we paid $5.00 a litre, more people would walk to work, more people would buy fuel efficient cars, more people would take the bus because they couldn't afford a car.

Mind you, an over night hike to these levels would destroy some businesses and bankrupt some people, but it would lower consumption.

That's why I drive a 4500lb Cadillac that gets no better than 17mpg on the highway. I might as well do it now, because I won't be able to afford it in the future.

I'd love to buy a Tata Nano for my next car, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano

-istp

[Wacko]

BoostedNihilist: sorry man...

The problem is there are only 3 cities in Canada with a decent public transportation system? I wouldn't mind taking public transportation if it didn't take me 2 hours and 4 different changeovers to get to my destination... I don't even think there is bus service to Springbank!

[CID]

Raising the price of gas to reduce carbon emissions is like selling handguns to reduce crime!

[Wacko]

Raising the price of gas to reduce carbon emissions is like selling handguns to reduce crime!

wouldn't it be... increasing the price of ammunition?