Khadar

[mcrit]

I believe that the Government of Canada should be doing its utmost to bring this young man, one of our own citizens, back to Canada. He is one of ours, and thus it falls to us to give him due process of law. We should give him a fair trial on charges of treason and then hang him by the neck until he is, in the words of Heinlein, "dead, dead, dead!". His body should be left to rot on a gallows in Ottawa, not Gitmo, as a warning to others.

[Hedley]

a fair trial on charges of treason and then hang him

um ... how can he have a fair trial if the outcome
is pre-ordained?

But anyways, I can understand how the Americans
would be reluctant to hand him over to us. I am
sure that our gov't would release him, after he
promised to show up for a trial in 2 or 3 years
time, and that's the last we would ever see of
him.

I understand there are tens of thousands of
illegal immigrants running loose in Canada,
because our government intentionally
released them - after they promised to
come back again, of course!

Perhaps someday, the gov't of Canada
will treat it's own citizens as kindly as
it treats non-citizens.

[LH]

Anybody who has lived and/or travelled internationally finds out very quickly that Canada is known as a 'country of convenience'. There are people travelling internationally who carry Canadian passports and who are not Canadian and have never set foot inside our borders. For $50 USD and having to wait 30 minutes, one can have a Canadian Passport and a made-to-measure silk suit finished in Hong Kong. The Brits and the Americans have had the security codes on their Passports chnged at least once a year for decades. It is only recently that Canada has changed from doing it on theirs every TEN years.........and Canadians wonder why we are such a joke internationally. Hell folks, we got people who have been granted domiscile in Canada that you wouldn't allow entry into your own home for the afternoon.

[North Shore]

Khadar .... is that something like Arab radar?

LH, what you say is fair enough, but we have to play within the current system, imperfect as it may be. The fact remains that every other western democracy, except for Canada, has repatriated their citizens from Guantanamo Bay to face trial in their "home" country. Why is Canada any different? Also, Khadr is still entitled to the presumption of innocence, and as such deserves a fair and impartial trial according to long-established legal rules - one that I wonder if he'll get from a Military tribunal, given the Military's restrictions on evidence disclosure to defence counsel.
Lastly, I have problems with convicting a person for crimes committed when they were a child. Ok, he was 15 at the time, and should have 'known' better, but given the toxic upbringing he had courtesy of his parents, I have a hard time seeing how he could have known better. I'm not saying that he should walk free, but imprisoning him for the rest of his life, or hanging him, seems a little unfair, IMO.

[niss]

This isn't a criminal matter. Khadr is tried as an enemy combatant for killing an american medic. This isnt like the canadian lady who was in mexico on drug charges.

What if it was a Canadian soldier he killed?

He should rot in that cell.

[x-wind]

hes 15..

[C23flyer]

hes 15..

Actually, he is now 21, born in 1986. Checking one of the sources used by wikipedia:

Omar Khadr—a Canadian born in Toronto and the son of al-Qaeda fighter Ahmed Said Khadr—was detained by the United States military in Afghanistan in July 2002, after allegedly throwing a grenade that killed a special forces medic. Omar Khadr was 15 at the time.

The debate over the "combatant" issue is an interesting one. Not sure how a 15 year old, firing on an American soldier in a war zone constitutes a terrorist act, but the Bush boys have been known to stretch the truth before.

[niss]

hes 15..

Actually, he is now 21, born in 1986. Checking one of the sources used by wikipedia:

Omar Khadr—a Canadian born in Toronto and the son of al-Qaeda fighter Ahmed Said Khadr—was detained by the United States military in Afghanistan in July 2002, after allegedly throwing a grenade that killed a special forces medic. Omar Khadr was 15 at the time.

The debate over the "combatant" issue is an interesting one. Not sure how a 15 year old, firing on an American soldier in a war zone constitutes a terrorist act, but the Bush boys have been known to stretch the truth before.

The terrorist tag is not the issue. He would falls in a legal void as do many people sitting in Gitmo as they are not technically soliders because they fight for no sovereign nations army but are for all intents and purposes soldiers. They are illegal combattants. He didnt kill some guy in the streets so its not a criminal issue, he (while not a soldier legally) allegidly killed a man in war.

The biggest issue here is that Canadians in general can not stomach a war. We demand troop withdrawl when the death toll hits double digits and we cant stand that no matter how wrong they may be we cant stand our citizens in other nations jails. This kid fought against allied forces, so while not phyiscally attacking Canadian troops he in principal was against the US, CDN, British, Germans, anyone else in A-stan. It could have easily been a Canadian medic going home covered in a flag due to this pricks actions.

@#$! THE KHADR'S.

[Inverted2]

He was old enough to know what he was getting into. He wasn't over there in Afghanistan to do sightseeing or humanitarian work. Although I don't agree with how the US do things, I do hope he gets a fair trial and if he is guilty, Canadian or not, throw the book at him.

[The Other Kind]

hes 15..

You're absolutely right. He was just an innocent 15 year old boy - that just happened to get into a fire fight with US soldiers and lob a grenade at them, killing one for sure - who knows how many he bagged before he was finally captured. We should bring him back here and give him all the love and support he truly deserves. Let's have a great big group hug for all the terrorists.

@#$! THE KHADR'S.

+1

Anyone else hear the mother being interviewed? She said 'What's the big deal, he killed ONE American. They killed many of Omar's friends...'

I say no more bleeding heart left wing loon ball bullshit. Let the fucker rot.

[the original tony]

you are all right.
@#$! all these guys hang em, kill em.
Do whatever you want to them, they are deserving of death only.
All this immediately AFTER the entire american gov't is brought up on war crimes. Each and everyone of these scum sucking pieces of shit who lied and deceived their way into Iraq should be held for genocide and war crimes. Then the rest will follow.
There is still no legitimate reason for these fuckers to bomb a country that did nothing to them. How many civilians have died? But this is ok because they were killed by soldiers on a mission. To fill evey assholes SUV in the states, oh and to get those pesky little weapons.
I think the oil will be found first.
@#$! anyone who is stupid enough to trust anything the americans tell us.
once the real terrorists are dead, you can deal with the rest.
I'm pretty sure that he was aiming for the medic too, amazing how when the news is in the other direction it always sounds so much worse.
AN AMERICAN MEDIC HAS BEEN KILLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and a few hundred civilians were blown to fucking bits...... and now for sports.
I love the americans.
really

tony

[The Other Kind]

Tony, I think you're confusing the war in Afghanistan with the war in Iraq. Most agree that the US should never have gone into Iraq and Bush et al really screwed the pooch on that one. But this little dickhead was caught fighting for al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Unless of course you think that hijacking 4 airliners, flying them into heavily populated areas and killing thousands should go unanswered....

[the original tony]

i completely agree that whoever planned the attacks should pay heavily.
but this whole trial is to take the focus away from Iraq.
U think the states really cares about the death of one medic??
Can they prove it was this kid and not some other nut wrapped in cloth from head to foot?
from a distance they all look the same when cloaked in what ever the hell it is.
My point is how can they pay so much attention to this when what they are doing is far worse??
Afghanistan was an after thought, and a much smaller scale.
Why??
i would like to know too.

tony

[rigpiggy]

I have no desire to see him ever set foot in Canada again, I also think his family who are in many respects worse should also be shown the door. However, I do believe in Due Process of Law. The US SC has already come down against the Bush White House several times. Try him fairly, however what exactly are the charges, did Bush ever declare "war" on Afghanistan.

I don't believe the US Congress ever formally declared "War" if not how can he be a "illegal enemy combatant".

The February 6, 2006, testimony of Alberto Gonzales to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on Wartime Executive Power and the National Security Agency's Surveillance Authority, however indicates otherwise:

GONZALES: There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you're possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we're not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force.

Further to this, and I am presently searching for a link, child soldiers are not to be considered responsible for their actions in that they are considered to be coerced into action.


I support the operations in Afghanistan, and don't feel we can pull out until we leave a stable government/infrastructure to prevent the problems of 9/11. Try him according to the standards of the US Constitution/UN ICC/Afghan Penal code whatever, but give him the right to the adversarial process, and let the chips fall where they may.

[timbob]

Some Canadians think that our citizens can go to any country they like , do what ever they please and when they get into trouble our government should bail them out and bring them home to be coddled by our judicial system. I don't think the Yanks are going to fall for that one.

Listening to this punks sister on Toronto radio the other morning ..."My father was in A-stan doing cherity work". The guy was a financere of terrorists and was using Canada as a haven due to our mamsey pamsey court system. I say they came to Canada under false pretenses and should have their citizenship revoked. Then just forget about them.

[North Shore]

But this little dickhead was caught fighting for al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Actually, I believe that he is alleged to have been fighting for the Taliban, who, at the time, were what passed as the government of Afghanistan. It seems somewhat strange to me that while it is ok for soldiers to invade another country, presumably killing people while doing so, when those people fight back it is somehow a criminal act?
In any case, is there an internationally recognised legal definition of 'illegal enemy combatant' or whatever term it is that the USA has concocted for the Guantanamo inmates? Or are they simply being detained out of a desire for revenge for the events of September 11th, and guilt/innocence of anything be damned? Not to mention making up the rules for how to treat them as they go along

If it were up to me, I'd ship Mrs. and sister Khadr to the nearest sandpit, and the heck with them - their public statements seem to indicate that they don't really want to live here enyway.

Omar, on the other hand, I'd bring back to Canada (he is, after all, like it or not, a Citizen by birth), try and punish fairly, and examine a little further whether or not he should be set free. If he were any other 15 year old, in any other city in Canada, that's what would happen - why not in this case?

I'm not trying to be soft on terrorists at all, it's just that there has to be a clear, and fair system for trying all of the Guantanamo detainees for their alleged crimes, and punishing them accordingly. If not, they should be let go.

[niss]

Omar, on the other hand, I'd bring back to Canada (he is, after all, like it or not, a Citizen by birth), try and punish fairly, and examine a little further whether or not he should be set free. If he were any other 15 year old, in any other city in Canada, that's what would happen - why not in this case?

Why should he come back here? He didnt kill any Canadians and he was fighting under the flag of another country.

He should be tried by the people he faught against and killed. He has nothing to do with us.

[Expat]

This isn't a criminal matter. Khadr is tried as an enemy combatant for killing an american medic. This isnt like the canadian lady who was in mexico on drug charges.

What if it was a Canadian soldier he killed?

He should rot in that cell.

How about a professional Top Gun (Puke) sh*t his pants and drop a 500 kg bomb and kill 4 Canadians! That f**ker ought to die!

[AuxBatOn]

Whatever he did, he was on the other's guy side. Not our side. That makes him a traitor.

Expat: That guy didn't do it on purpose. He didn't go up that night thinking "hmmm let's go kill some canucks." Yes, he screwed up (and he really should not have), but blue on blue does happen in wartime.

AuxBatOn

[The Old Fogducker]

Here's an interview on AM 640 Toronto with Sgt. Layne Morris, one of young Mr. Khadr's victims.

Have a listen and make your mind up based on a first-hand account of the action.

Also on the site, you'll hear an interview with Zaynab Khadr, Omar's sister, and his defence attorney. Listen closely and see whose position appears to be most plausible and likely to accurately detail the events which placed Mr. Khadr in his present predicament.

I say leave the little bugger to his own devices rather than bringing him "home" to Canada so he can later rejoin his comrades in arms in Afghanistan.

So, like any actor, he has developed the ability to generate tears for the camera ... boo hoo, my heart strings failed to be tugged.

http://www.640toronto.com/HostsandShows ... Audio.aspx

Fog

[LH]

North Shore ----- you apparently have taken exception to my stance on Omar Khadr and his family.

Allow me to explain to you why I feel the way i do and perhaps at the same time inform you a little bit about your country called Canada. I was born and grew up in Canada although I am of duel ciitzenship with the US. I joined up and served two tours with the US Army in Vietnam and flew various versions of what you know as the Huey. I was shot down and invalided home to recuperate and then I left the Service. I'm at home about one week at my parent's home when there's a knock on the door one afternoon. At the front door stands an RCMP S/Sgt in civilian clothes and upon entry into our home and some preliminary questions, advises that he is there to arrest me. I ask "What for?" and he advises that I have broken a Canadian law the prevents Canadian national from taking-up arms for a foreign nation and entering into combat on their behalf hile doing so. I advise and show proof that I am of duel citizenship and he then retracts and states that that is different then.

Bottom line? If I would not have been able to prove that I was also a citizenof the US and therefore had not technically fought in combat for another country, I would have most certainly served some period of time in a penitentary.

Now to Omar Khadr. IF he should be repatriated back to Canada I will expect that he will have the same visitation from the RCMP as I had on that day in 1968 because the same law is still on the same books as it was for me. I will then expect that he will be charged under that same law and go into a Canadian penitentary as I would have.The fact that he was only 15 years old means nothing here. He is not some kid hangin' out down at the local 7-Eleven with his mountain bike. Given the training and an automatic weapon, he can kill as many people as someone 22. The automatic weapon does not know or care who is firing it.......it only reacts to pressures on the trigger and where it is pointed. It doesn't care about sex, where the operator is from, whether he's washed for a month or not or what age he is or whether he's old enough to drive a car back home. Don't get 'downtown Canada on a Saturday night' mixed-up with that same teenager pointing a 600 round per minute automatic weapon at you. Once he fires it, you are dead and it's too late to blame it all on his mother and father then.....cause you're dead. Lastly, he was captured at the scene of a battle in a combat theatre and wasn't even found in a built up area, but a lonely farmhouse and was the last one alive.

Only in Canada would we be sending our dads, husbands, brothers and sisters off to fight in a country like Afghanistan against a terrotist group like the Taliban and at the same time having body bags returning from Afghanistan AND at the same time housing and giving comfort to a family of Taliban supporters like the Khadr's.Then when one of them is found in a combat zone and incarcerated for killing one of our allies, we fret and worry about the poor boy's age and the fact that he's crying on TV. In the words of my own lawyer...."Smart move by his legal counsel and he got all the 'bleeding hearts' to react just the way he wanted".

[mcrit]

I recall reading somewhere that there is a law on the books that forbids Canadian civilians from fighting overseas (had something to do with people going over to join the Spanish civil war). The little bugger who is the subject of this thread violated that law. He elected to take up arms against his fellow Canadians. That's why I say we deserve a crack at him.

[Expat]

There is more to it than meets the eyes. Most combattants here are killed in action, or handed over to Afghan police. In some cases, they are thrown in the US jail in Bagram. Why on earth would one kid be sent to Gitmo? Why him? Why the torture? He probably knew a lot. A lot, that they do not want divulged. Hence the treatment. Ennemy combattants here are caught everyday. Only a few get the special treatment.

[niss]

It would be a lot simpler and more convenient if the kid would just off himself.

[Dex]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7507216.stm