quit instructing > student scared you?

[bluenote]

any stories from present and past flight instructors that are obvious still instructing or others that have quit because their students have given them the scare while training and the ones that have not quit and how they deal with these type of students.

thanks

[Ozzydog]

What kind of scare are we talking about??? If its an operational thing was it dual or solo?? I'm a healthy strong dude and honestly some of my students have given me the creeps about their mental stability.. wondering why they are sitting in this plane with me?... thats the only thing that freaks me out. Once I know my students are ok upstairs I know when I get in that plane with them there is nothing that can happen to them or me cause I'm there to take instant control if things go south. If they scare you all you can do is show them how things are supposed to be done before you give them control. after an incident wheather its big or small, they have to know WHY what they did was unsafe and break down in a timeline what went wrong and how to not let it happen again. Landings are the only time my students even have the opportunity to mess things up.

[North Shore]

It was my experience that every student did one thing unexpectedly, thus giving you a bit of a scare... as for quitting because of it - must have been quite a good scare!

[Stevo226]

I get scares every once in a while, but i look at them as good learning opportunities. For example, was doing a short field take off from a narrow runway. Student pulls the nose up abruptly (i never really harped on students before this) and sure enough there's enough crosswind to push us onto the grass, but not enough airspeed to get us climbing. We bounced on the grass twice then managed to get in the air and back over the runway just as the trees were getting really big.

From now on, i really harp on the fact that if an airplane doesn't want to fly yet, IT WON'T

[jetflightinstructor]

I asked few years ago my student, a pre solo, to use more right rudder, just after take off. My student actually looked at his feet under the yoke for few seconds, in order to be sure he was applying the force on the good paddle I guess, who knows... Anyway we were few feet above the ground, and of course, the aircraft banked on the right seriously.
It was quite scarying and funny at the same time.
My student is flying an Airbus now... No rudder problem with the Airbus...

[ScurvyDog]

While this wasn't the reason why I quit instruction the first time, about 12 years ago I witnessed another instructor's student spin a 172 in from about 200 ft in the air, she was on her solo x country. I was first on the scene. Lucily the student was only banged up abit and in shock. The aircraft was of course totalled and looked like no one should have lived the impact. As an instructor it really snapped me to reality that you need to teach everyone the best you can and remember people make mistakes that are sometimes out of my control.

[atpilot]

I used to get "scared" once a day as an instructor. There are always different levels of scared. Someone will do something totally unexpected at the worst of times. You just shake it off and get back in the saddle. Cheers.

[C-GGGQ]

Scared a few times, never scared bad enough to make me quit, but I was scared slightly enough times to say "You know what, F this I don't make enough"

Sadly I now currently make more driving a de-icing truck at Pearson

[MichaelP]

A Bangkok newspaper carried an article on one of the flying instructors there with the headline saying he risked his life every day...

Students have never scared me, but licenced pilots have again and again... Even one flight test examiner scared me.
It doesn't matter who they are and what they fly... Some people are simple survivors.

The student who crashed the 172 above was unfortunate, but this sort of thing only serves to underline how important the flying instructor's job is.

As far as I am concerned, flying the aeroplane within its limits is important, but knowing your own limits is even more so.
An instructor's limits should be much higher than the average; you need to be able to allow the aeroplane to go beyond the student's limits, but not beyond the certified limits, only by doing this will the student learn.

I lost a T67A and two good friends to stupidity.
They were looping at too low a level and started a second loop in a series from about 600 feet AGL.
Some people are taught to close the throttle at the top of a loop... This is stupid!
Slow over the top, a little negative and closing the throttle meant the engine stopped.
The ground was close and a pull on the stick meant the aeroplane flicked level on a 45 degree downline... Better than continuing the loop! But the stall recovery with opposite rudder probably came into play with the stick still back and the aeroplane flicked into a spin into the ground, 2 dead.
Two hours later when I learned of this my blood went to my feet... I drove to the crash site... I went to a funeral and I apologised to a father who had lost his son. Not very nice.

So what did I do... If I checked you out in my T67A (I had 2 more afterwards), I would invite you to do a loop. "Oh look, 108 knots for a loop....".
If it was "I learned aerobatics in the Cessna Aerobat", I knew we'd flick in the vertical and everything would stop pointing straight up. "What are you going to do now?" I'd ask.

No, students don't scare me, I have some control over them, but licenced pilots are sometimes 'survivors' and they scare me.

[Shiny Side Up]

The above is about right. Students never scare me. Occasionally they surprise me, and sometimes they irritate the hell out of me with blatant acts of stupidity.

"Licenced" pilots on the other hand are some of the most cause for concern. I remember talking to one who had claimed to have survived 10 crashes. One wonders what had precipitated all that necessity. There's many you hear on the radio who seem to have a very tenuous grasp on where they're at or what they're doing at that moment, and some I've heard have King Air in their call. Mind you that these are the same people who make the highways dangerous when they're behind the wheel of a car or truck too, an equal percentage of pilots to drivers on the road with the same seeming lack of concern for their own or other's personal safety. All in all, it really surprises me there aren't more incidents out there, but then, maybe we just don't hear about them.

[scopiton]

No, students don't scare me, I have some control over them, but licenced pilots are sometimes 'survivors' and they scare me.

I second that

[KT111]

I think I scared my instructor once many years ago during flight training. I was new, possibly pre solo even and we were doing circuits that day at the airport in a 152. For some reason, short final to the runway, cleared to land, about 100 feet off the ground I thought it necessary to fully raise the flaps from 35 degrees or so. Don't ask me why. Anyways, we got lucky and I was able to handle the change in attitude with no problem and landed. When it happened my instructor yelled "oh shit" and probably lost a few years of his life.

On the ground and in the debrief he let me have it but we still flew together after that. Haha didn't make him quit but I did scare the daylights out of him.

[iflyforpie]

No, students don't scare me, I have some control over them, but licenced pilots are sometimes 'survivors' and they scare me.

I had one of those experiences the other day. I don't think this guy was a 'survivor' per se as he was an ex-RAF pilot who flew Hunters and is currently employed in corporate aviation, but he still managed to scare the living daylights out of me.

So he comes in (we are not a flight school and I am not a current instructor, but we do rentals and checkouts) and asks if I have anything 'fun' that he could bomb around in. He just flew a T-6 and a Citabria but all I could offer him was our lowly 172.

We got to talking and this guy's got some interesting stories and I am pretty anxious to see what he is capable of making the easiest plane to fly in the world do. I'm not going to bore him with all the numbers and procedures as he is not going to be going solo and he just wants to have fun, so I start and run up the plane, give him rotation and climb speeds and airfield and circuit altitudes and we are off.

Boy it's nice to fly with someone who knows how to fly a plane. Right on the numbers, ball centered, smooth control.

We play around a bit and come back into the circuit. Downwind, a bit close for most people, but not for me. Abeam the threshold WHOOMP, power to 1000...that was a bit abrupt (the AME in me cringes) but hey, this is a 172.

Full flaps and early turn. Boy we are really high, but airspeed is right on the money and the plane is headed for the threshold in a nice descending curve.

Beautiful...beautiful...beautiful...and..flare...FLARE!!! BANG!! on the nose wheel, BANG!! again, I grab the yoke (of course not thinking I would have to grab it at all) and settle it on to the runway. Give him back control and he immediately goes full power and takes off... WITH FULL FLAPS!! I can't seem to communicate with him fast enough the fact that the plane will not climb above the trees less than 1000 ft away with full flaps so I retract them, fighting with the yoke to keep the plane airborne but above the stall.

The rest of the flight was uneventful (except he did the same type of approach but he was able to correct it to a pretty good landing) and we BS'd for a while after that.

Just goes to show that no matter what the qualifications are of the person you are checking out, remember you are PIC and responsible to keep the aircraft operating in a safe manner.

[FlaplessDork]

I deal with these students by drinking.

[bob sacamano]

Think 3 steps ahead of the student, and you won't be scared.

[32a]

Been an instructor, checkpilot and aircraft commander most of my career. Never been scared in an airplane. But, thinking over the flight as I lay in bed that night, I've had to reach for an odd drink shaken because of how close we came to having an accident.

As an experienced instructor, ab initio students are relatively easy to deal with. They usually only make common errors. So called experienced pilots are different.

Checking out in a new aircraft late in my career, my words to my junior (and subordinate) instructor, "Watch me very carefully. I can come up with ways of getting us into situations which you may not recognize as dangerous until too late."

My seniors introduced me to another technique which has worked well for me when flying with very junior crewmembers. I would tell them I will make three mistakes during the mission which I expect them to catch. Then, trying to fly my normal best, if I made mistakes and my crew caught them, all the better for all of us. If the trip went well, I'd tell them I forgot to make the mistakes.

Sound stupid? Maybe. But it has kept my ass alive throughout a long career and many demanding missions.

[shitdisturber]

I've never had a student scare me in an airplane; more than a few have left me shaking my head and wondering if abortions couldn't be made retroactive somehow but that's another issue. The only scares I've had in airplanes have been from licensed pilots; like the guy who froze in a spin on me when I was getting him recurrent. The earth really rotates fast in a 152 when you leave the power on and the rudder in and sit there, fat, dumb, and petrified. At least I assume he was petrified, I was a little busy at the time. Or the commercial pilot who on a night checkout got into a fast moving fog bank and immediately lost control; and here I'd been thinking I was going to have an easy night. That one taught me a valuable lesson for the remainder of my time as an instructor; NEVER, assume the guy next to you is going to be fine and you can relax and enjoy the ride.

[MichaelP]

One of my little tests in this direction is to fly into bad conditions with an advanced student pilot, near flight test, to see whether he/or she will question it.

I once did this with a student enroute to Qualicum Beach, we flew into rain and lowering clouds and he merrily carried on.
Eventually it was getting beyond my comfort zone and I turned him around.
This guy got his licence and an IR and merrily flies single engine aeroplanes into weather that horrifies me!
He's not breaking any rules or regulations, but is serious IMC in a single smart?

A Dutchman wanted to build his hours in my C120, his whole focus was on those hours and the airline job as well as straight ahead in the cockpit... "Don't you ever look out!", I rolled the wings and there was traffic on our left side, not a problem yet, but one should be aware.
The rain beat against the bedroom window, there would be no trip to Arlington today... The phone rang, it's the Dutchman, two people have already taken off from Langley... I drove down 99, and saw the clouds down below the treetops at White Rock, the weather was getting better!
We prepared the Cessna 120, filed the flightplan and then took off; I wanted to see how far this bloke would go.
It was becoming scattered as we passed Bellingham, and then on the I5 between the hills with the road rising and the overcast lowering, not much future... Eyes forward, we were going.... Finally my comfort zone was reached and I suggested a turn around and let's route around the sea side of these mountains where a right 180 would not mean hitting something.
Lower and lower we flew, there was no brightness ahead only gloom...
500 feet at Mount Vernon I asked him if this was legal? No. Is the weather getting better? No. "Let's turn around and go back".
Some people have no sense at all, focus on their futures and are not in proper control of their present.

[Shiny Side Up]

Some people have no sense at all, focus on their futures and are not in proper control of their present.

Always looking to the future this one, never his mind on where he was.

Reminds me of one student I had who was angry because when I called off the flight for weather he wouldn't accept it, I just remember being stupefied when we were looking outside the briefing room window watching nickel sized hail coming down and he was insisting that it was good enough to go...

[Strega]

If an instructor was skilled and experienced, they would never be scared by their students.

In todays age, we dont have instructors, we have "time builders"

[Shiny Side Up]

If an instructor was skilled and experienced, they would never be scared by their students.

I guess its important to differentiate here on whether the students scared you by doing something in the aircraft, or whether they just scared you by their method of conducting themselves in general.

[jetflightinstructor]

I have thousands hours of instruction in different kind of airplanes. I have been scaried few times. Sorry for not following the politically correct and established trend "only experienced pilots can scare a flight instructor, never the real students blablabla".

To be accurate I have been scared by both students and experienced pilots. Flew with a snowbird pilot who did a terrible landing in a small airplane. Flew with one student talking to me about his evening party and looking at me at the same time during rotate on a very short runway. One student grabed me during a spin. One student was at 25 degres pitch up on the FAF on a jet, and tried to take the taxiway while still at 50 knots after landing... And I have others stories... But I flew in different airplanes and different countries as a flight instructor. I have never been scaried enough to make me quit, and always took control on time when it was necessary. I know at least 2 instructors who died in small piston airplanes. Being scared sometimes and being ready for the worse is not bad when it comes to safety. I have seen solo student crashing too. This is the reality. Welcome on board. Be safe.

[AVGAS]

Always pay attention and be sure you are at least One step ahead of your students!

[Hedley]

bluenote/helinas/whatever: stop procrastinating, and get the
frikken instructor rating already!!