Sqwak Ident

[pt6vstpe]

Just curious as to what happens on your end when you say "sqwak ident". What if we press it to early, or to late?
Thanks

[NJ]

When we say squawk ident, and you press the ident button. Your target flashes for about 10 seconds. If it's too early, we may not be able to use it as there could already be someone identing, too late and we would be watching for too long to ident you and we'd have other stuff to do and miss it. If you are able to press it as soon as we say sqawk ident then we can probably identify you on the same transmission (it takes about 3 seconds from you pressing it and the radar to sweep for the ident to show).

Here is our only direction in regards to the ident:

You may consider an aircraft identified,
provided one of the following conditions is met:
E. The appropriate change in the RPS is
observed after the aircraft is instructed to
operate the Ident feature of its transponder.
(P)
511.1 E. Phraseology:
SQUAWK IDENT.
SQUAWK (code) AND IDENT.

There are actually 11 ways we can radar identify an aircraft.

[Newwave]

Yup I noticed a lot of people call up atc with something like YYZ terminal this is CFHTD with you squawking ident at 2.5 vfr to CYHM. (fictional) I'm assuming you can't really do that either eh?

[Jerricho]

Correct.

The "ident" has to be requested. There may be 2 aircraft flashing, with ATC only having requested one..........we're easily confused.

[Pratt]

There are some people out there who will hit the ident button as they are calling ATC, saying we are sqwaking so and so. That is not the procedure that you are supposed to follow. You are only to hit the ident button when directed to do so by ATC. I believe anything other than that is a contrevention of the regs, theoretically you could get in shit for it, so don't do that. When they want you to sqwak ident they will tell you.

[Cap'n P8]

Oh and if you're wondering why nobodies responding to your radio call after the fourth try, you were probably pressing the yoke mounted ident button by accident...not that that's ever happened to me...

[Lurch]

I heard a funny one a few weeks back

ATC asked what had to be a student pilot to Sqwak ident and the pilot responded sqwaking 1234, ATC came back and said "I know what you are sqwaking I need you to push that little button on the transponder that says ident."

I love when pilots respond with "sqwaking" because you flashing on their screen isn't enough, they need you to say it to

[viennatech]

I love when pilots respond with "sqwaking" because you flashing on their screen isn't enough, they need you to say it to

I was trained to do this as a rule.

Terminal: Cessna GABC squawk IDENT.
GABC: (presses IDENT button then the PTT) "GABC is squawking IDENT.

I always thought the communication was redundant (as you'd see the flashing on radar) yet was told that's the "proper way" to do it.

Is this true or am I wasting communication bandwidth??

[PAJ]

Always interesting to see it from the other side!

I was trained to do this as a rule.

Same here. Agreed that it is a bit redundant and ATC will normally acknowledge with "Cessna GABC, Radar Identified" but if we don't acknowledge the request (or is it an instruction?) and you don't see us, how do you know we heard you? How long will you wait before asking again?

[robshelle]

I remember reading in an industry mag a number of years ago about a pilot flying VFR at 7500' entering controlled airspace. He was only using mode A at the time. The controller instructed him to sqwal altitude (meaning, turn on the mode C). Well, sure enough he turns the transponder to 7500. The controller asked to confirm sqwak 7500? He replied affirmative. Needless to say when he landed at his destination, there were some police cars waiting. Always got a chuckle out of that.


Rob Benusic
CYEG Tower

[PAJ]

Needless to say when he landed at his destination, there were some police cars waiting.

LOL now but I'll bet no one was laughing that day. Lesson learn't the hard way

[Bushav8er]

Just curious as to what happens on your end when you say "sqwak ident". What if we press it to early, or to late?
Thanks

Sorry but don't they teach this 'basic' stuff anymore? Heck, I remember getting this with my PPL training.

[Braun]

Well when you hear the instruction you press the button and we hope no one else has pressed it at the same time. There is no "time delay" but when you hear it from the controller just press it!

[Old Spice]

What I don't get is why we are asked to squawk just after we call airborne? Not only would you think it is fairly obvious who we are and where we are but it is a fairly inconvenient time to be looking for the ident button. We have several aircraft the same type but none the same so sometimes you actually have to look.

[FamilyGuy]

ATC has to identify you within 1 nm of the end of the runway. If you are flying from airports with spotty radar coverage they may need you to push the little button - even when climbing thru 500' agl. I don't think they ask for this for shits and giggles....well not most of the time.

[Lurch]

What I don't get is why we are asked to squawk just after we call airborne? Not only would you think it is fairly obvious who we are and where we are but it is a fairly inconvenient time to be looking for the ident button. We have several aircraft the same type but none the same so sometimes you actually have to look.

Wow, if this gets you distracted enough to cause problems you really should go back to flight school and re-learn how to fly, but don't use the same instructor.

What I don't get is why we are asked to squawk just after we call airborne? Not only would you think it is fairly obvious who we are and where we are but it is a fairly inconvenient time to be looking for the ident button. We have several aircraft the same type but none the same so sometimes you actually have to look.

A lot of the radar identification procedures we are required to follow are actually quite stupid.

In the last six years, I have *not once* asked an aircraft to squawk, and then had a target flash other than that one which I was expecting to flash. It's as if the regs were written assuming that everyone spends their time flying around trying to impersonate other aircraft...

Controllers should have the discretion to squawk aircraft only when they have doubt as to which target is which. Otherwise it's a waste of our time and yours, as with many other procedures that we're required to follow. Things that would be better categorized under the header of "The Bleeding Obvious"...

Someone in Ottawa gets paid too much money to get their panties in a knot over stupid things like this though... Not to mention some of my co-workers...

I do agree that sometimes it's taken a little overboard, but seriously how hard is it to say "ABC Squawk Ident" and for the pilot to push a button?

[AuxBatOn]

Wow, if this gets you distracted enough to cause problems you really should go back to flight school and re-learn how to fly, but don't use the same instructor.

Easy to say for you, but I have to look back and down to squawk ident. Ideal for the leans!

[FamilyGuy]

A lot of the radar identification procedures we are required to follow are actually quite stupid.

In the last six years, I have *not once* asked an aircraft to squawk, and then had a target flash other than that one which I was expecting to flash. It's as if the regs were written assuming that everyone spends their time flying around trying to impersonate other aircraft...

Controllers should have the discretion to squawk aircraft only when they have doubt as to which target is which. Otherwise it's a waste of our time and yours, as with many other procedures that we're required to follow. Things that would be better categorized under the header of "The Bleeding Obvious"...

Someone in Ottawa gets paid too much money to get their panties in a knot over stupid things like this though... Not to mention some of my co-workers...

Hmmm. Well first off rules and regs are written for the LCD's amongst us....and Murphy for the rest.

I don't know where to find it publicly, but if you do a search I seem to recall 2 particuarily nasty irregularities involving the wrong aircraft being identified or such. Both were transport category

But yes I agree the pantywaists in YOW do get carried away...usually in response to someone exercising "discretion" in a poor fashion......................kinda like speed limits on a perfectly straight uninterrupted stretch of prairie road.....

[Old Spice]

Wow, if this gets you distracted enough to cause problems you really should go back to flight school and re-learn how to fly, but don't use the same instructor.

You know Lurch, this is exactly why I don't post very often, the capacity for ignorance in some is amazing. I said that right after take off is an inconvenient time and it is.

Thanks for the other replies. The responses indicated "ATC" and "controllers", I should have been more clear in that I was referring to an airport with FSS only. Perhaps they have some of the same requirements with the ident even though they are advisory only?

[W0XOF]

Thanks for the other replies. The responses indicated "ATC" and "controllers", I should have been more clear in that I was referring to an airport with FSS only. Perhaps they have some of the same requirements with the ident even though they are advisory only?

Old Spice. If the FSS will be using the radar information, it is a requirement for the FSS to radar identify an aircraft.

Without getting to involved with all the conditions to radar identify an aircraft, this condition would be more specific to your post.

Manops 455

A. a departing aircraft is observed on radar to be in a position that is within one mile of the end of the runway used for takeoff and consistent with the time of takeoff and the route of flight or heading of the aircraft.

So, your case might be where radar coverage makes it so they are unable to see your target within one mile. They would then have to ask you to squawk ident.

[Lurch]

Wow, if this gets you distracted enough to cause problems you really should go back to flight school and re-learn how to fly, but don't use the same instructor.

You know Lurch, this is exactly why I don't post very often, the capacity for ignorance in some is amazing. I said that right after take off is an inconvenient time and it is.

Sorry maybe I should expand on what I was talking about

I don’t know what airplane you fly but I fly twin turbo charged airplanes with the transponder at the bottom of the stack.

So after Take-off I need to bring the gear up, retract flaps, throttle back, bring the props back to 2500rpm and sync all while hand flying (SPIFR). So I'm fully aware of the issues related to putting your head down to search for the "Ident Button".

Here is where I have the problem with your complaint, who cares if they are asking you to Squawk Ident, Fly the damn airplane. If you can't get to the button because you are busy just say so, "ABC Radio Standby".

Once the airplane is set-up for the climb and Trimmed, then come back and deal with getting identified. This is something they should teach you from day one of flight training, Basic Airmanship, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate .

Once Again fly the plane when you are able then deal with it, no need flying into the ground because you have your head down trying to find the button 100' off the ground.

Lurch

Edited because it posted before I was finished writing

[x-wind]

It is concerning to be asked regularly to squak Ident shortly after takeoff. Thanks for posting the Manops, interesting.

[lilfssister]

The squawk ident after takeoff can be avoided by applying another identification rule that says if you can see the aircraft visually and it's where the radar symbol is, then it is identified. Of course that is dependant on weather and distance from the airport and whether you CAN actually see the aircraft when it shows up on the radar display.

[AuxBatOn]

What about :

"Callsign, off runway XX, on XXX Departure, passing XXXX climbing XXXX"

Can you ident if you see the radar return withing 300 ft?

[x-wind]

I always always give a heading vice the SID.