Any pilots planning on making future Oceanic crossing via Iqaluit or Kuujjuaq(ferry flight..), Please feel free to contact me.(I am a commercial Pilot who would like to build some experience).
Thanks
I'd like to hop towards Greenland
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
magyar before you really get beat up here let me explain this issue to you so you will have a better understanding of the issue.
Generally ferry flights on the North Atlantic route are flown by professional ferry pilots and if they are flying light aircraft they need every pound of fuel they can get so carrying a passenger would be unlikely.
Don't get me wrong though as you may be able to find someone who would take you......but if you do the odds that they know what they are doing are not all that good.
The North Atlantic route in a light aircraft is arguably one of the most dangerous routes on the planet.
Generally ferry flights on the North Atlantic route are flown by professional ferry pilots and if they are flying light aircraft they need every pound of fuel they can get so carrying a passenger would be unlikely.
Don't get me wrong though as you may be able to find someone who would take you......but if you do the odds that they know what they are doing are not all that good.
The North Atlantic route in a light aircraft is arguably one of the most dangerous routes on the planet.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
right...so would anyone like to share some stories if they have made the trip before? What was it like for you? how did you end up getting to do it?....
actually hey here's a photo-link of somebody who did it:
http://www.utility-aircraft.com/gallery ... 0N-reg.htm
actually hey here's a photo-link of somebody who did it:
http://www.utility-aircraft.com/gallery ... 0N-reg.htm
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Chuck Ellsworth
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- Location: Always moving
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Nice pictures for sure, but flying a single engine airplane over that route sure has its risks.
Here is a story about my last ferry flight which incidently was Scotland- Iceland-Greenland-Labrador.
We met a ferry pilot while holding for weather in Wick Scotland, spent several days with him and he related some real scary stories flying single engine airplanes on that route. I asked him if he was getting to the point that the risk was not worth the money and he said he was not worried as he could handle anything that came up.
I heard from the airplane owner that he was with when we met them in Wick a few months later and he said that on his next ferry flight he left Iceland for Greenland in a single engine airplane and has never been found.
The route is risky enough in a multi engine airplane, you couldn't pay me enough to fly a single engine airplane on that route.
Here is a story about my last ferry flight which incidently was Scotland- Iceland-Greenland-Labrador.
We met a ferry pilot while holding for weather in Wick Scotland, spent several days with him and he related some real scary stories flying single engine airplanes on that route. I asked him if he was getting to the point that the risk was not worth the money and he said he was not worried as he could handle anything that came up.
I heard from the airplane owner that he was with when we met them in Wick a few months later and he said that on his next ferry flight he left Iceland for Greenland in a single engine airplane and has never been found.
The route is risky enough in a multi engine airplane, you couldn't pay me enough to fly a single engine airplane on that route.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
I've done the trip twice, once in each direction, in a fairly slow, unpressurized twin turbine, between 10,000 and 13,000'. I was so lucky to get this trip, as I was a new-hire FO and hadn't done anything like this before... such a great experience. (I ended up going to and from Southern Africa, so the North Atlantic stuff luckily ended up being fairly boring in comparison to the rest - and BORING is what you WANT it to be over the North Atlantic.) The company I work for (not a ferry company- we were moving our own aircraft to a job site) puts absolutely no pressure on us, so if there was a weather delay it wouldn't have been too big of a deal for us to wait it out, but for the most part we were really lucky for weather.
Eastbound was fine - it was August, and we left Iqaluit for Sonderstromm on a Sunday (had to call ahead to ask them to keep the tower open for us!) and it was a day where nearly all the other airports in Greenland were socked in. Sonderstromm had (at that time anyways) one of the lower approach minimums but even then I think we broke out on the Loc approach at least 1000' above... nice day there. We had enough fuel to get back to YFB if needed too. The next day we went over the ice cap which is fairly high (I think the MEA is around 12 or 13,000'?) so we got some good views of that and some glacial stuff - amazing. Landed in Reyjavik and overnighted again because all of the UK was socked in and all possible airports within our range were closed! Ended up leaving the next morning and still had to reroute a bit up the North side of the UK to the Shetland Islands because Wick, Glasgow, etc were all fogged in... which was neat because we flew directly over the Faroe Islands!
Westbound we did at the end of October, and we were feet-wet over the Atlantic from Glasgow. Despite all the weather-checking in the world, we ended up having much stronger than forecast headwinds, and clouds were lower than forecast too, which forced us to descend to 7000' at one point due to some ice accumulation... boy those waves looked cold and huge! At that altitude we had to give ATC our estimates through the airliners passing overhead... felt pretty lonely down there! On the East coast of Iceland we figured that if we lost an engine, it would still be quicker to head back to Glasgow with the winds. Pretty crazy. It cleared up and the winds calmed down over Iceland and we made it into Reykjavik (which was CAVOK) with our IFR reserves (helps having Keflavik right there) but it was a good lesson in Critical Point/PNR calculations. We overnighted in Reykjavik again, and expected to be there a few days due to crap weather in Greenland, but the next morning things had cleared up enough for us to guarantee getting in to Sonderstromm with a solid alternate. I think we just got fuel there and headed straight on for YFB since we had fairly calm winds and the weather in Baffin was so good....
The trips were an amazing experience, but I did them with experienced Captains who'd done the trip several times prior AND we were not expected to push any weather under any circumstances. I also was in an aircraft with 2 reliable, turbine engines, and had a little more true airspeed than many of the singles that go over there (about 180 kts) with a ferry tank that gave us a total of about 6.8 hours fuel. Even if the weather was beautiful, I wouldn't have the guts (stupidity??!?!) to do the trip in a single piston... it's a LONG time over water with so many variables!!
Here are some (kinda crappy) pics... I'm not in too much of a writing mood tonight, hence the bit of the dullness to the story... I've got it written out in a much more entertaining fashion but it's a bit too personal!
First sight of Greenland... pointy mountains!
LOC approach in to Sonderstromm (BGSF)... blurry pic, but gives a bit of perspective how nice of a day it was there!
BGSF the next morning - beautiful day!
Departure out of BGSF
Cool glacial stuff
First sight of Iceland
Reykjavik (BIRK I think) (this pic was actually taken on departure on the return trip, I don't recall it being that nice Eastbound!)
Faroe Islands!
Edited to add: if you're looking to do this type of thing for "experience" one of the probably safest ways is to apply to some of the larger airborne survey companies in Canada; we often ferry our aircraft overseas, and you're flying good equipment with good support/funds from the head office, and not given a hard time if you're decide to wait out weather that you don't like. It's not for sure you'll get to do a trip, but survey flying in itself gets you some really unique flying experience and with the right company, you'll fly in many parts of the world SAFELY.
Good luck!
Eastbound was fine - it was August, and we left Iqaluit for Sonderstromm on a Sunday (had to call ahead to ask them to keep the tower open for us!) and it was a day where nearly all the other airports in Greenland were socked in. Sonderstromm had (at that time anyways) one of the lower approach minimums but even then I think we broke out on the Loc approach at least 1000' above... nice day there. We had enough fuel to get back to YFB if needed too. The next day we went over the ice cap which is fairly high (I think the MEA is around 12 or 13,000'?) so we got some good views of that and some glacial stuff - amazing. Landed in Reyjavik and overnighted again because all of the UK was socked in and all possible airports within our range were closed! Ended up leaving the next morning and still had to reroute a bit up the North side of the UK to the Shetland Islands because Wick, Glasgow, etc were all fogged in... which was neat because we flew directly over the Faroe Islands!
Westbound we did at the end of October, and we were feet-wet over the Atlantic from Glasgow. Despite all the weather-checking in the world, we ended up having much stronger than forecast headwinds, and clouds were lower than forecast too, which forced us to descend to 7000' at one point due to some ice accumulation... boy those waves looked cold and huge! At that altitude we had to give ATC our estimates through the airliners passing overhead... felt pretty lonely down there! On the East coast of Iceland we figured that if we lost an engine, it would still be quicker to head back to Glasgow with the winds. Pretty crazy. It cleared up and the winds calmed down over Iceland and we made it into Reykjavik (which was CAVOK) with our IFR reserves (helps having Keflavik right there) but it was a good lesson in Critical Point/PNR calculations. We overnighted in Reykjavik again, and expected to be there a few days due to crap weather in Greenland, but the next morning things had cleared up enough for us to guarantee getting in to Sonderstromm with a solid alternate. I think we just got fuel there and headed straight on for YFB since we had fairly calm winds and the weather in Baffin was so good....
The trips were an amazing experience, but I did them with experienced Captains who'd done the trip several times prior AND we were not expected to push any weather under any circumstances. I also was in an aircraft with 2 reliable, turbine engines, and had a little more true airspeed than many of the singles that go over there (about 180 kts) with a ferry tank that gave us a total of about 6.8 hours fuel. Even if the weather was beautiful, I wouldn't have the guts (stupidity??!?!) to do the trip in a single piston... it's a LONG time over water with so many variables!!
Here are some (kinda crappy) pics... I'm not in too much of a writing mood tonight, hence the bit of the dullness to the story... I've got it written out in a much more entertaining fashion but it's a bit too personal!
First sight of Greenland... pointy mountains!
LOC approach in to Sonderstromm (BGSF)... blurry pic, but gives a bit of perspective how nice of a day it was there!
BGSF the next morning - beautiful day!
Departure out of BGSF
Cool glacial stuff
First sight of Iceland
Reykjavik (BIRK I think) (this pic was actually taken on departure on the return trip, I don't recall it being that nice Eastbound!)
Faroe Islands!
Edited to add: if you're looking to do this type of thing for "experience" one of the probably safest ways is to apply to some of the larger airborne survey companies in Canada; we often ferry our aircraft overseas, and you're flying good equipment with good support/funds from the head office, and not given a hard time if you're decide to wait out weather that you don't like. It's not for sure you'll get to do a trip, but survey flying in itself gets you some really unique flying experience and with the right company, you'll fly in many parts of the world SAFELY.
Good luck!
Last edited by chipmunk on Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
There is a great account of the route in this book , "Fate is The Hunter" - I read it last winter and enjoyed it immensly. You'll enjoy reading what he/they used for an altimeter in 0/0 conditions, letting down over the ocean with no access to a current meter setting......big kahoonas 
Enjoy
LL
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 47&start=0
Enjoy
LL
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 47&start=0
Sex at age 90 is like trying to shoot pool with a rope. ~George Burns~
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Chuck Ellsworth
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- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
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Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Hi Chipmunk, I see you have expanded your horizons since we were talking in Ottawa a few years ago.....good on you.
Have you done the South Atlantic route from Africa to South America?
That one has a whole different set of problems for weather planning because of the ITCZ......especially in non pressurized airplanes.
I'm glad I am finally finished with that life, retirement is great.
Have you done the South Atlantic route from Africa to South America?
That one has a whole different set of problems for weather planning because of the ITCZ......especially in non pressurized airplanes.
I'm glad I am finally finished with that life, retirement is great.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Hi .. . wrote:
Have you done the South Atlantic route from Africa to South America?
That one has a whole different set of problems for weather planning because of the ITCZ......especially in non pressurized airplanes.
Nope, haven't done that... Spent way too much time last year dealing with the effects of the ITCZ in Ghana last year though, so can't imagine what it would be like to deal with over the Southern Atlantic....
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Yes, Chipmunk it is a real serious business trying to cross the ITCZ anywhere at relatively low altitudes and the South Atlantic can be wild.....my first experience with the ITCZ was the worse I ever encountered, it was between Panama and Ecuador in 1974 the tops were at 76,000 feet as relayed to us by the USAF radar.....didn't have a sexual thought for hours.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Two record setting events I'm sure.... . wrote:the tops were at 76,000 feet as relayed to us by the USAF radar.....didn't have a sexual thought for hours.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
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Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
I never thought about it that way, but you may be on to something there.
Did you get to experience the Harmattan sand storms in Africa?
Did you get to experience the Harmattan sand storms in Africa?
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Like this?. . wrote:Did you get to experience the Harmattan sand storms in Africa?
Are we there yet?
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
The Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ), also known as the Intertropical Front, Monsoon trough, Doldrums or the Equatorial Convergence Zone, is a belt of low pressure girdling Earth at the equator. It is formed by the vertical ascent of warm, moist air from the latitudes north and south of the equator.
The air is drawn into the intertropical convergence zone by the action of the Hadley cell, a macroscale atmospheric feature which is part of the Earth's heat and moisture distribution system. It is transported aloft by the convective activity of thunderstorms; regions in the intertropical convergence zone receive precipitation over 200 days in a year. (wikipedia)
The air is drawn into the intertropical convergence zone by the action of the Hadley cell, a macroscale atmospheric feature which is part of the Earth's heat and moisture distribution system. It is transported aloft by the convective activity of thunderstorms; regions in the intertropical convergence zone receive precipitation over 200 days in a year. (wikipedia)
Are we there yet?
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Yeah, thats pretty much what i thought!?!!?C23flyer wrote:The Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ), also known as the Intertropical Front, Monsoon trough, Doldrums or the Equatorial Convergence Zone, is a belt of low pressure girdling Earth at the equator. It is formed by the vertical ascent of warm, moist air from the latitudes north and south of the equator.
The air is drawn into the intertropical convergence zone by the action of the Hadley cell, a macroscale atmospheric feature which is part of the Earth's heat and moisture distribution system. It is transported aloft by the convective activity of thunderstorms; regions in the intertropical convergence zone receive precipitation over 200 days in a year. (wikipedia)
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Chuck Ellsworth
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- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
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Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
paddy, the ITCZ can be seen on intellicast.com if you click on the world infared map.
http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Satel ... rared.aspx
The ITCZ is very easy to see with all the red storms in a line around the planet.
I sometimes just go there and look at it and thank God I managed to live through some of the flights that I did in those storms.....it is sort of like being a masochist but quite safe here at home.
http://www.intellicast.com/Global/Satel ... rared.aspx
The ITCZ is very easy to see with all the red storms in a line around the planet.
I sometimes just go there and look at it and thank God I managed to live through some of the flights that I did in those storms.....it is sort of like being a masochist but quite safe here at home.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: I'd like to hop towards Greenland
Never heard of it but I guess it explains why the Qantas pilot hitched a piggyback from Air New Zealand the other day. Some nasty stuff!
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 54&t=47533
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 54&t=47533
