WHAT THE H*LL AM I SIGNING UP FOR??

[oneill10999]

OK, guys

My brain is being eaten alive by stress right now... Like seriously... I think im going to have an anneurism!

I just decided to go to flight school at age 26, shell out the 60,000$ (ie. go in debt)

Soooo Im just wondering , what am i sigining up for here??.... STRAIGHT UP.... I need the good and the bad.... i just need straight honesty.

A) LIke what is the real deal? What am i signing up for here? the so-called reality of the situation...? ie. $60,000 in debt, graduating in 1 year at the age of 27 (in jan 2010) and comming out of flight school and into the indusrty at the age of 27 in a year from now, as a 200 hour newbie? What am i really signing up for here? what do i have to expect in the comming years???

B) What are the different routes( ie. instructing, and ramping) i can take after i first graduate from MFC and What is the pay scale like, from your first year out of school.. and up through the years in each of theses routes?

C) WHat are the hours like, in each of these scenarios above?

D) Do you ever get time off when you first start? or is it just insane hours?

E) Like how hard is it for real?? ..I have a girlfriend , that i see a future with (yah know what i mean)... but im scared about our relationship and my life as i know it ( ie. being able to afford some of the fruits of life: ie. beer, dinner, movies,having chill out/down time, having a relationship .etc ,etc..)what do you think in all honesty..?
Whats the consesnsus between all the pilots ..can a relationship with the girlfriend last the first few years of this industry ... or noo wayy!!.. what about all those little extras in life that we enjoy?

F) I guess what im saying is.... im obsessed with flying and have wanted to be a pilot my whole life... However, if being a pilot means giving up my girlfriend... and a potential family life, or giving up a crazy ammount of family time(when i do have a family), then how happy am i really going to be flying a plane when i have no one to share it/my life with?, or no one to come home too, or an empty bed at night?? IS this a Valid worryyy???

G) Is it possible, Or ,Can you have a flying job that allows you to have a girlfriend, and a family in the start, in the beginning when you first get out of flight school?... is there flying jobs out there that allow you to come home every night or every 2nd night? in the beginning and throughout your career?

H) Is there any jobs when you first start off in the industry.... where you dont have to move to the middle of no where?

I) Is there anyway to becaome a pilot with a signifigant other in your life, where the signifigant other doesn't need to completley give up their life and follow you around??, or, when you first start off being a pilot,,, is everything focussed on the flying... and your partner either has to follow you and totally adopt your life.... or otherwise,stay home? and if so, how long does your partner have to give up their life for, and their ambitions and dreams?

PLEASE HELP ME!!

The reason i ask, is because , i have an oportunity to join the RCMP, and have a stable career, where i can come home most nights to my family. But on the flip side my dream is and has ALWAYS been to be a pilot....

However, on that note, i dont want to be flying, and have no one in my life to share it with either... or not be able to have kids, bc i cant afford it (remember im 26 already) and i dont want to totally miss out on my childrens lives or my wifes life either.If i do miss out on their lives/ my wifes life..and she leaves me.., than flying won't really be all that fun, or wont make me all that happy...if i have to give up my companion and a potential life together, just to live my dream of flying,

In the scenario above......Now, all of a sudden my dream of flying, isn't really a dream anymore...bc in that dream of flying there is also a wife, a family and a life.

J) I guess what im saying is : being a pilot isn't worth more to me than my family. So The question IS.... is there a way to keep the Girlfreind...OR even if we broke up.... Find another girlfriend etc etc... and not make her have to give up her life for the pursuit of my dream??

K) Is there a way to still Be a pilot and have a stable realtionship, where the girlfriend doesnt have to give up her life and follow me forever, and where i can come home to her every night or 2nd night, and not have to move to the middle of no where, and afford/ make enough $ to live and eventually have kids(remember i will have a 60,000$ debt and loan payments as well) ??

L) if yessss........ HOW?.... OR.... is flying not a family mans career? Does any pilot in the beginning have a girlfriend.... or do most girlfriends, just throw in the towel and say they cant deal with it?

M) If i get into flying, should i expect to have to move to Bum F*ck no-where, work long ass hours, for no $, and not be able to even afford to eat, and be a bachelor becasue no woman in their right mind would stay with you in the beginning? will i even have time for a relationship? or do you end up being a lonely bachelor, with no family/signifigant other in most scenarios of being a pilot?

I Really need Everyones oppinion and advice and personal stories/experiences on this one.....

For real.... Or else, im goona make an irrational decision based on fear of the unknown.... so i need some serious help and answers, if you guys dont mind sharing? .

Cheers Everyone!! .... I reaalllly , reeallly, want to fly... but i do not want to come home too an empty bed every night either ...bc my girl left me, bc she thought i was never there for her/home. Secondly, I also really really want to fly... But i also want to make enough $ to live a normal life, and have kids, and not be broke ass poor.... What do all of yah think?
Whats The TRUTH?

[Cat Driver]

I can answer all those questions real quick.

Join the RCMP and buy your own airplane.

[AuxBatOn]

So, questions A to M basically come back to : "Can I have a girlfriend and be a pilot"?

[SeptRepair]

Most pilots I know have at least 3 girl friends, so the answer is yes. You can be a pilot and have a girlfriend.

[Flying Nutcracker]

Seems to me that the "truth" is that you are asking questions you already know the answers to...

Is your opportunity to join the RCMP going to give you any family life in the first while???

If your quest for flying is strong enough you will find a way to make it work. A lot of people have started this process at a much older age with kids, wife, dogs, cats and house... and still managed to land a job with the majors with 20+ years of productivity left in them!

The question you have to ask yourself is whether you want to fly or chase bad guys???

Either way it will be a commitment. A commitment for you and the ones closest to you!

[Johnny#5]

I can answer all those questions real quick.

Join the RCMP and buy your own airplane.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[canpilot]

I'm in the same perdicament!

I spent the last five years going to university, finishing off my flight training and building up some time. I went and got a flying job this summer and came out with about 170 hours working from May to October in the North.

I came back and decided to finish my IFR rating and or SARON/ SAMRA or IATRA (now at 750+ TT). I should also mention I am married with a baby boy on the way.

Now the industry has taken a major hit along with the economy. I am either looking at ramping for the next two years + in YVR + for a seat or maybe looking for work out of town. (I'd really rather not leave the wife/ kid behind)

My wife is a pilot as well... She at some point needs to get herself/ her career on track!!

Whats the best option? Would it be possible for the two of us to work at a small operator in the bush? How accomodating are outfits with respect to the family thing? Are we stuck in the city? At the same time, my earnings need to be enough to support my family!

Any help / suggestions would be welcome..

GOOD POST!!!

[E-Flyer]

Dude ! either you're in or you're out.

27 is not late btw. You can easily work your way up and get on with a strong airline in 10 years I'd say... who here hasn't seen the average joe look about late thirties wearing 3 stripes? I sure have seen them. Actually, your age range is more realistic although there are a lot of young people as well when it comes to starting flight training.

You will have to spend money, you will have to work hard to pay off the debt, and you will run into shady operators who want nothing but you to fly their mission impossibles!

Enjoy the ride, work hard, have fun, and I think you wouldn't have regretted that you took this route.

And more importantly, don't have high expectations of aviation ! It is a common error that demotivates pilot's to move out of the industry.


Good Luck

[Invertago]

RCMP wage:
Year 1 45k
Year 2 55k
Year 3 65k
Then around 70k for next 7 years gives you $655 000

Now give Gov half you have $327 000

Have a nice house mostly paid off and your own little C172 at the airport to call your own. Fly when you want to, take wife kids and dog with you, keep it fun and be home for supper. Fly to places with a beach rather then a dock if you know what I mean

Pilot
2 years training -$60 000
Wage
year 3 $23 000 instructing
year 4 $25 000
year 5 $26 000 right seat at CMA
year 6 $55 000 left seat CMA
Year 7 $60 000 left seat CMA
Year 8 $45 000 Big red right seat... what the wage went down??? lol surprise
Year 9 $50 000 Big red right seat
Year 10 $150 Big red in the big seat

Income: $384k give govn't half = $162k now pay back flight training = $102 000

A start of a morgage, maybe an old car... after 10 years... oh wait, nope... $51 000, forgot the wife took half and ran off with some Cop damn...

[C-GGGQ]

There are some routes ie. instructing that will not require the move to nowhere. Its not for everyone though. Moving isn't as bad as some people say. Best advice sit down with the GF and see where she stands on this (if it is as serious as you say)

[Bushav8er]

I can answer all those questions real quick.

Join the RCMP and buy your own airplane.

Ditto!

You could always switch to the RCMP Air Services after.

[Changes in Latitudes]

You haven't got the grapes.

You're supposed to try and enjoy the ride, that's the whole point. If you're already trying to get out of having to move someplace unusual, you're in it for the wrong reasons. This industry will test your passion frequently, and I don't think you're going to be happy with what it has dish out.

[Ludacris]

I was the same age as you when I got my first flying job.

You can read about my experience here: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=8444

I fall into categories (F) and (M) in your original post. When I was young all I thought about was flying, but then I started to realize some of the other things in life you mentioned are more important. In the end though only you can decided what is more important for you. Looking back, living up north and having the relationship with my gf slowly dissolve was probably the worst part for me and the biggest factor in deciding to change careers.

That aside, four years after getting out I don't have regrets about the years I spent flying. If anything, my time spent flying stopped me from having a lifetime of regret and wondering what it would have been like. Of course I still have an interest in aviation and airplanes which is why I still read avcanada. Most of the guys I flew with back then are now with major airlines. So if you're able to stick it out up north it will pay off, I wasn't able to sacrifice anymore for flying.

[Stinky]

Exactly, fly for the RCMP. Get in now and flight train on the side.
I started at 26 also. First two years my income was $10,000. It took me almost 5 years to make $50k per year. The only reason I actually made it was because my girlfriend was highly supportive. A couple of times her thousand dollar bonus cheques from work went straight to my flight training, she just endorsed the back and they went straight to me.
Make sure your girlfriend knows what you're signing up for too, because she'll be in it just as deep.
Finally I've got a good job at jazz (I enjoy it, many on this board will argue) The problem is, it's not a great family life sleeping in hotels and seeing your kids cry when you put on your uniform.

[chipmunk]

Exactly, fly for the RCMP. Get in now and flight train on the side.

From what I've heard, to fly for the RCMP requires 3000h of good experience...

[5x5]

Hopefully you've been searching around and reading the multitude of threads on here dealing with your questions. Not being mean, but they have all been asked and answered many times before.

I have no idea if there are similar RCMP/police specific forums out there, but if so pose questions to them as well. I have a number of friends in the RCMP as well as various municipal forces and their work and life is hardly a bed of roses either. Especially if you're worried about relationships.

But at the end of it all, no one else can give you the "Truth". We only offer our interpretation of it. You will talk to people, read the news, view the forums, etc. etc. At the end of it all you will choose what you want to believe and what you want to discredit and that will become your truth.

[ronjeremy]

..

[. .]

A) LIke what is the real deal? What am i signing up for here? the so-called reality of the situation...? ie. $60,000 in debt, graduating in 1 year at the age of 27 (in jan 2010) and comming out of flight school and into the indusrty at the age of 27 in a year from now, as a 200 hour newbie? What am i really signing up for here? what do i have to expect in the comming years???

Being treated like some form of untouchable from the Indian caste system. Most employers have come to the realization that you're incredibly replaceable, and treat you as such.

B) What are the different routes( ie. instructing, and ramping) i can take after i first graduate from MFC and What is the pay scale like, from your first year out of school.. and up through the years in each of theses routes?

I did both instruct and work the ramp. My first year of instructing had the bottom completely fall out of the industry. Probably much like you're going to have happen when you graduate. In my first 11 months of instructing I'd made $1700. I lived at home, and my parents put me back on allowance so I could afford to put gas into my car and drive to work. When I was working the ramp I made $9/hr which doesn't sound to fantastic. However there were lots of months filled with 70hr work weeks. So when you added up all the overtime I had more money than I could spend. The first time I made more money than I had made while working the ramp was going captain on a large multi turbine.

C) WHat are the hours like, in each of these scenarios above?

I already touched on the ramp hours. The hours for instructing were a little different. No need to arrive at 6am and wait for walk in students in February. However if you ever intended to get walk in students you always had to be there. So it was a hell of a lot of waiting around going crazy for anything to happen. Noting ever happened.

D) Do you ever get time off when you first start? or is it just insane hours?

Instructing allowed me to take whatever time off I wanted. I wasn't on salary so no one cared. The crux was that if you weren't there to drum up new students, you were ever gonna fly and thus make money. I was usually able to take a bit of time off each year when working the ramp. I'm not talking about 3 week long vacations, but maybe 5 or 6 days twice a year. Most of my "bush" jobs after that were quite hour intensive. They were paying you what they deemed a princely sum, (read, just slightly below the poverty wage) and thus they expected you to work like an indentured servant for it.

E) Like how hard is it for real?? ..I have a girlfriend , that i see a future with (yah know what i mean)... but im scared about our relationship and my life as i know it ( ie. being able to afford some of the fruits of life: ie. beer, dinner, movies,having chill out/down time, having a relationship .etc ,etc..)what do you think in all honesty..?
Whats the consesnsus between all the pilots ..can a relationship with the girlfriend last the first few years of this industry ... or noo wayy!!.. what about all those little extras in life that we enjoy?

I didn't make it with my somewhat long term girlfriend when I first moved up North. The long distance thing is hard as hell. The only other option is bringing her with you. Most women won't be able to handle too many winters in Pickle Lake or Norman Wells. If you are up working the ramp you'll easily have more than enough money to buy beer or anything you desire. The downside is if you're up North, everywhere I ever lived except Fort McMurray, didn't have a movie theater. On a positive note, despite the first relationship not working, I ended up meeting my future wife up North. Lots of pilots end up marrying nurses, teachers, cops, or other professionals that also work up North.

F) I guess what im saying is.... im obsessed with flying and have wanted to be a pilot my whole life... However, if being a pilot means giving up my girlfriend... and a potential family life, or giving up a crazy ammount of family time(when i do have a family), then how happy am i really going to be flying a plane when i have no one to share it/my life with?, or no one to come home too, or an empty bed at night?? IS this a Valid worryyy???

The first few years are going to be about serious long term vision. You're going to suck up a lot of indignity, poor pay, stressful work and poor life style in hopes of getting on somewhere good. A good job in aviation will give you a quality of life that is truly unequaled. There's lots of pilots that are home every night and have very stable family lives.

G) Is it possible, Or ,Can you have a flying job that allows you to have a girlfriend, and a family in the start, in the beginning when you first get out of flight school?... is there flying jobs out there that allow you to come home every night or every 2nd night? in the beginning and throughout your career?

If you instruct you can live in a real city and be home every night. There will always be jobs that allow you to be home every night, or live in the city. The down side to almost all of these jobs is that the competition is horrendous for them. Most of the people who went up North did so to gain the experience required to apply for these jobs. In general if you stay in civilization it will take you an extra few years to reach your goals in aviation.

H) Is there any jobs when you first start off in the industry.... where you dont have to move to the middle of no where?

Instructing. Working the ramp for CMA in Calgary. Working the ramp for Perimeter in Winnipeg.

I) Is there anyway to becaome a pilot with a signifigant other in your life, where the signifigant other doesn't need to completley give up their life and follow you around??, or, when you first start off being a pilot,,, is everything focussed on the flying... and your partner either has to follow you and totally adopt your life.... or otherwise,stay home? and if so, how long does your partner have to give up their life for, and their ambitions and dreams?

If you're trying to share the power just expect things to take a little longer for you. The benefit of things taking longer is that your spouse is working you won't feel the financial pain that single pilots do. You'll be able to say no to unsafe jobs and not worry about where the money for food and rent is going to come from. What kind of career does your girlfriend have or aspire to have? There are lots of jobs that can be found up North that could work for you.

The reason i ask, is because , i have an oportunity to join the RCMP, and have a stable career, where i can come home most nights to my family. But on the flip side my dream is and has ALWAYS been to be a pilot....

You could always be a pilot for the RCMP and have the best of both worlds if you're willing to put in the time as a pilot.

J) I guess what im saying is : being a pilot isn't worth more to me than my family. So The question IS.... is there a way to keep the Girlfreind...OR even if we broke up.... Find another girlfriend etc etc... and not make her have to give up her life for the pursuit of my dream??

That's very easy. Don't let your family ever take back seat to them then. Don't move anywhere that they won't be able to prosper. You'll find that small kids don't care if they live in Montreal or Muskrat Dam, they just want to be with you. If you were wanting to stay in a city and be Mr. Family it's very possible.

K) Is there a way to still Be a pilot and have a stable realtionship, where the girlfriend doesnt have to give up her life and follow me forever, and where i can come home to her every night or 2nd night, and not have to move to the middle of no where, and afford/ make enough $ to live and eventually have kids(remember i will have a 60,000$ debt and loan payments as well) ??

See the last 4 times I've answered the same question.

L) if yessss........ HOW?.... OR.... is flying not a family mans career? Does any pilot in the beginning have a girlfriend.... or do most girlfriends, just throw in the towel and say they cant deal with it?

A lot will depend on how strong and how much you both want the relationship. Which in my opinion is a good thing. If it's meant to be you'll make it work. If not surely you'll find someone new.

M) If i get into flying, should i expect to have to move to Bum F*ck no-where, work long ass hours, for no $, and not be able to even afford to eat, and be a bachelor becasue no woman in their right mind would stay with you in the beginning? will i even have time for a relationship? or do you end up being a lonely bachelor, with no family/signifigant other in most scenarios of being a pilot?

Wow what a new line of questioning totally untouched by your previous questions...

I Really need Everyones oppinion and advice and personal stories/experiences on this one.....

For real.... Or else, im goona make an irrational decision based on fear of the unknown.... so i need some serious help and answers, if you guys dont mind sharing? .

Cheers Everyone!! .... I reaalllly , reeallly, want to fly... but i do not want to come home too an empty bed every night either ...bc my girl left me, bc she thought i was never there for her/home. Secondly, I also really really want to fly... But i also want to make enough $ to live a normal life, and have kids, and not be broke ass poor.... What do all of yah think?
Whats The TRUTH?

If you want family first just put them first. You can still make everything work for you as long as you're willing to make some sacrifices. I would seriously suggest working the ramp for CMA or Perimeter. That way you can live in a real city and keep the significant other sane. Hopefully she can find a good job and contribute to your paying down the 60k of debt. You could always instruct and do the same kind of thing. Usually with instructing you'll need to move to one or two companies beyond instructing to build experience that better companies are looking for. With CMA or Perimeter you could just stay there until the industry improves and the airlines/corporate are hiring again.

Good luck.

[oneill10999]

I dont Understand what you mean by this at all?...... Please elaborate. The reason i ask, is bc im getting into aviatin to have an exciting and travel oriented career.... not the same old Sh*t different day job.....

Dude ! either you're in or you're out.



And more importantly, don't have high expectations of aviation ! It is a common error that demotivates pilot's to move out of the industry.


Good Luck

[oneill10999]

Is this the reality of the situation in aviation, no matter what route you take, for real?

RCMP wage:
Year 1 45k
Year 2 55k
Year 3 65k
Then around 70k for next 7 years gives you $655 000

Now give Gov half you have $327 000

Have a nice house mostly paid off and your own little C172 at the airport to call your own. Fly when you want to, take wife kids and dog with you, keep it fun and be home for supper. Fly to places with a beach rather then a dock if you know what I mean

Pilot
2 years training -$60 000
Wage
year 3 $23 000 instructing
year 4 $25 000
year 5 $26 000 right seat at CMA
year 6 $55 000 left seat CMA
Year 7 $60 000 left seat CMA
Year 8 $45 000 Big red right seat... what the wage went down??? lol surprise
Year 9 $50 000 Big red right seat
Year 10 $150 Big red in the big seat

Income: $384k give govn't half = $162k now pay back flight training = $102 000

A start of a morgage, maybe an old car... after 10 years... oh wait, nope... $51 000, forgot the wife took half and ran off with some Cop damn...

[yycflyguy]

That is best case scenario not including such unforseens as SARs, 9/11, economic cycles, uncontrollable fuel inflation or changes in airline legislation allowing foreign ownership/operation which all can stagnate or regress normal career progression. My first training flight was in 1990 and although I have been at Big Red for 3 years I am not in the left seat. So that is almost 19 years not the 10 presented in a hypothetical scenario.

Enjoy the ride it is just as important as the end goal. Is it shitty in the beginning? Yup. Is it a long, hard road to hoe (ha, he said ho) yup. Will it stress your relationships? Yup. Your move.

[Sasquash]

check your email

[yycflyguy]

Maybe you should read this thread too;
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=18773

[KAG]

Is this the reality of the situation in aviation, no matter what route you take, for real?

RCMP wage:
Year 1 45k
Year 2 55k
Year 3 65k
Then around 70k for next 7 years gives you $655 000

Now give Gov half you have $327 000

Have a nice house mostly paid off and your own little C172 at the airport to call your own. Fly when you want to, take wife kids and dog with you, keep it fun and be home for supper. Fly to places with a beach rather then a dock if you know what I mean

Pilot
2 years training -$60 000
Wage
year 3 $23 000 instructing
year 4 $25 000
year 5 $26 000 right seat at CMA
year 6 $55 000 left seat CMA
Year 7 $60 000 left seat CMA
Year 8 $45 000 Big red right seat... what the wage went down??? lol surprise
Year 9 $50 000 Big red right seat
Year 10 $150 Big red in the big seat

Income: $384k give govn't half = $162k now pay back flight training = $102 000

A start of a morgage, maybe an old car... after 10 years... oh wait, nope... $51 000, forgot the wife took half and ran off with some Cop damn...

No thats one route. Some get lucky (very lucky) and land a good gig right out of school. Most have to work at various companies.
Sounds like this girl is the one?! is she able/willing to move? What does she do? If she is a city girl or someone who does not want to move, your in trouble.
Prepare her for the reality of moving north because most pilots do a stint up north. It's the fastest way to advance your career, and you'll have fun doing it. Unless you have an in with CMA, GGN or any other tier 3 opperator.

['effin hippie]

For planning purposes assume the worst. I got started during the last downturn and I hadda spend 3 1/2 years in Uranium City. Google that. Guess whether my relationship survived.

I did see some people whose partners came to wherever with them and did marvelously. If you can't find a way to make the best of things and enjoy what wherever has to offer, forget it.

There are easier ways to make more money. After several years you will start to get the things you want out of the career ie Money, schedule and lifestyle. Another thing to keep in mind (and did you write those questions or did your partner?) is that almost every flying job will take you away from home lots. Even the guys in the majors are all too familiar with hotel living; if you have a girlfriend who objects to any absence, especially unplanned ones, delayed returns, whatever, forget it.

Actually, for planning purposes, just assume she'll leave you. Now decide what's more important. If it's her, forget it. Maybe she belongs to the minority of incredible partners out there who will do anything with a big smile, but the whole tone of your post is making me think not so much.

Best of Luck

ef